Originally Posted by RichieLion

Hail the Government!!

No...Hell the government. someone mentioned government's inability to govern anything and referenced "cash for clunkers" and thrn added an example. Another example was the credit given to people buying golf carts. The deal was so lucrative that GM bought thousands of golf carts and then stored them away.

ObamaCare if fully implemented will eventually be so cost prohabitive that the unintentional consequeces will be deciding where best to apply scare resources. And so that means anyone vulnerable, old people, very serious sickly people, people with severed disabilties etc will be placed on the bottom of government's priority list. In fact they probably won't even make the list. Consider now that the medical community utilizes a triage to sort out the serious from less serious maladies based on need. What you are going to see is a triage based on both need but overriden by costs , age, disability, liklihood of success, etc

Someone addressed VP Cheney moving to the head of the line for care. With or without ObamaCare rich and powerful people will always find a way to jump the line. While distasteful it is a fact of life.

The early reference to" cash for clunkers" fiasco was to illustrate that even with a simple program the government was helpless to do anything about fraud and waste. Can you imagine given the complexity of health care the field day dishonest people will have with this program.

Watch what you asked for...you just might get it.

Originally Posted by ilovetv

My problem with nationalized government healthcare for all is....

a) It's never proposed in Congress or by the White House for "All". Congress, Executive Branch, Judicial Branch, and "all" federal and their union employees are never included as insureds in the proposals for "the public option", Public Medicaid, health insurance exchanges, etc. ". They have their choice of the best of the best PRIVATE insurance plans, with the taxpayer paying about 3/4 of their premiums! See link (1) at the end.

b) I cannot imagine the elected politicians in Washington managing, and worse yet, appointing local/regional politicians to manage the financing and delivery of "all" OUR healthcare (not theirs......their private insurance companies can fire employees for stinking job performance).

Who could possibly want this congressional bunch of clowns to run all healthcare for us, the same way they ran Cash for Clunkers....in which taxpayers ultimately paid $24,000 per vehicle sold, and the Top 10 Vehicles Sold were ASIAN makes????? (2) (3)

See:

(1) Insurance Programs for Florida Federal and Congressional employees

(2) Cash for Clunkers Results Finally In: Taxpayers Paid $24,000 per Vehicle Sold, Reports Edmunds.com - Edmunds.com

(3) Cash for clunkers: Top 10 most popular new cars and trade ins

Kind of makes you wish you had chosen a government career, doesn't it?

Section 5000A of ObamaCare requires you to maintain minimum essential coverage or pay $750 fineor 2% of your income - whichever is Greater. Ok for the men - Let's say you have NO plans to remarry and your 48 or 88 so you have NO need for pediatric services. so your in market to buy a health coverage plan without an option to insure children in order to lower your premiums. TOO DAM BAD. Lets say your a woman and are now incapable of having children so you want a lower cost policy without maternity. TOO DAM BAD. Section 1302 FORCES you to cover it anyway. You see it's all about knowing what is in the bill before it's passed. Unlike Pelosi who stated "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what's in it. Educate yourself people. There is so much you don't know. Obama needs to cut expenses and it will be YOU - because 5% of those over age 65 are the beneficiaries of 50% of all spending on health care. Remember when he said "Maybe your better off NOT having the surgery and take a pain med. How's that for compassion?? If you think Obama isn't eyeing the elderly as the prime target audience for making cuts your sadly mistaken.

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

If you are gullible enough to be sucked in by their tactics, you deserve what you get.

I was lucky enough not to get sucked in by the tactics of the left

Originally Posted by cologal

documented. I suggest yoThere is not now nor ever and my end of life wishewas a DEATH PANEL in the bill. However, the bill will pay for you to consult a doctor about your end of life issues. I have already done that and have a will, medical power of attorney s u should do the same.

You may not like Obama Care but for me it will be helpful as my company has pulled the retiree healthcare we had been promised for, in my case, 23 years and COBRA only lasts for 18 months. (Not to mention they also pulled our retirement plan)

I have worked in hospital for all of my adult life and still do. If you don't think there is fraud and misuse of medical resources you must lead a very sheltered life.

Just saying.....

YOU have got to be kidding?? You missed the whole point of the post. There plans have NOTHING to do with your will, end of life wishes, etc... Read it again. Maybe you'll finally get it.

Originally Posted by buggyone

Kind of makes you wish you had chosen a government career, doesn't it?

No, because some of us still have the common sense to know that:

"When everyone climbs up onto the wagon, who is going to pull it?"

how about a closer to home hypothesis?
Let's assume that next month there are another 150,000 people added to the EXISTING medical providers, facilities and equipment. (if you don't like 150,000 pick any number....or just double the current population) it really does not matter.

When the bill allows additional folks for what ever reason free loaders, pre-existing conditions, illegals, etc.

the additional load on the providers and facilities and equipment will only be dealt with by longer waits to see the doctor, more decision making who gets what treatments and when and there will come a time when you are just not needy enough because of your age.

So even if you have insurance or the ability to pay it won't matter.

What else will happen will be botique type insurances for higher premiums with treatment at facilities with the premium coverage.

No matter how you slice it you will either get less medical care in the future or wait much longer for it and most certainly will be paying much much more than you do now to to keep the coverage at the level you have now.

And I know everybody is keen enough to be aware we have been sold a bill of goods on where the money will come from to pay for all these newly provided benfits to all who do not have nor have they had for the last 50 years.

We have it as good as it will ever be in our lives going forward and it does not matter if you have an R or D after your name. Enjoy what you have now while you can still afford it. And pray for those generations who come after us.

btk

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I was lucky enough not to get sucked in by the tactics of the left

Well you may not have been sucked in to the left, but the right would have denied you your comfortable union career, had they had their way.

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

Well you may not have been sucked in to the left, but the right would have denied you your comfortable union career, had they had their way.

That has some truth to it, but lots of Republicans courted the favor of the Teamsters.

Teamsters members do, after all, by and large work for big business. It wasn't taxpayers who put food on my table but the profit of the companies that employed me.

Things aren't black and white when it comes to unions.

[QUOTE=RichieLion;510954]That has some truth to it, but lots of Republicans courted the favor of the Teamsters.

Teamsters members do, after all, by and large work for big business. It wasn't taxpayers who put food on my table but the profit of the companies that employed me.

Things aren't black and white when it comes to unions.[/QUOTE]

The same can be said about virtually any issue my friend.

Originally Posted by hulababy

YOU have got to be kidding?? You missed the whole point of the post. There plans have NOTHING to do with your will, end of life wishes, etc... Read it again. Maybe you'll finally get it.

I was in no way nasty to you....the Death Panel clause was taken out of the Affordable Healthcare Act.

Originally Posted by hulababy

Section 5000A of ObamaCare requires you to maintain minimum essential coverage or pay $750 fineor 2% of your income - whichever is Greater. Ok for the men - Let's say you have NO plans to remarry and your 48 or 88 so you have NO need for pediatric services. so your in market to buy a health coverage plan without an option to insure children in order to lower your premiums. TOO DAM BAD. Lets say your a woman and are now incapable of having children so you want a lower cost policy without maternity. TOO DAM BAD. Section 1302 FORCES you to cover it anyway. You see it's all about knowing what is in the bill before it's passed. Unlike Pelosi who stated "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what's in it. Educate yourself people. There is so much you don't know. Obama needs to cut expenses and it will be YOU - because 5% of those over age 65 are the beneficiaries of 50% of all spending on health care. Remember when he said "Maybe your better off NOT having the surgery and take a pain med. How's that for compassion?? If you think Obama isn't eyeing the elderly as the prime target audience for making cuts your sadly mistaken.

Most company plans today are very general. You get to choose between a PPO or HMO. Simple as that. So I don't get your point...I am over childbearing years yet still pay for the coverage through my company insurance plan.

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

Well you may not have been sucked in to the left, but the right would have denied you your comfortable union career, had they had their way.

e - i doubt that - the right needs the teamsters since they don't seem to get down and dirty when it comes to work.

Originally Posted by njbchbum

e - i doubt that - the right needs the teamsters since they don't seem to get down and dirty when it comes to work.

The right need truck drivers - they would prefer they not be Teamsters.

and of course the Doctors will be leaving their practices also so not only will you wait you will wait longer because of the shortage of Doctors