Originally Posted by cologal

Now wait just a minute.....many here have posted about Obama's ties to Alinsky, for example. And then draw they the conclusion that Obama is a Socialist. So here is a guy shown in a picture in a Nazi uniform next to a man who was a Nazi in WW2.

If you all use guilt by association....then you should accept guilt by association. Only fair.

Again, the disconnect.

There's one man who is tutored in a ideology and has never repudiated the tutor or his beliefs, but has given evidence that this is his belief also.

Then you have another who participated in costume re-enactments, evidently in other skits involving other countries uniforms also.

I don't think having your picture taken in a Nazi uniform is good for a political career, but the comparison of the two is, pardon me, ludicrous.

Originally Posted by cologal

And then draw they the conclusion that Obama is a Socialist.

C'mon... Obama IS a Socialist. The defininition of a Socialist system is an economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise! Look at what he has done with the large corporations, health care, small business, etc... and tell me he is not a Socilaist. Please explain to me how he is not!

I got to this line and choked:

"Interesting how the 'glory days' start ending once "under god" is added to the pledge."

Interpretation? Belief? Opinion? To each his own. Anecdotal inference to a point.

But actually a statement like the above, to me, is very similar to one stating what the dimensions were of a cloud on a given day and that it began to get cloudier after that day and measurement. (Think about it!)
How the glory days start ending .....once under GOD was added....

being polite I will only say that is in the category of shooting an arrow into a barn and then painting the bulls eye after the fact with the arrow dead center and then stating that arrows, notice always how arrows hit the bulls eye when shooting them at barns!!!!!!!!

I would submit my usual question, as measured by what? But, I pass!!!!

btk

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Again, the disconnect.

There's one man who is tutored in a ideology and has never repudiated the tutor or his beliefs, but has given evidence that this is his belief also.

Then you have another who participated in costume re-enactments, evidently in other skits involving other countries uniforms also.

I don't think having your picture taken in a Nazi uniform is good for a political career, but the comparison of the two is, pardon me, ludicrous.

Sorry but the tutor thing is a total myth, if you wander down the socialist pathway. And there is no evidence that Obama is a socialist. (Unless you count in the minds of the right wing)

It is so hypocritical to deny that these 2 issues are different. You paint Obama a socialist because of Alinsky, someone he never met, but laugh about a Tea Party guy being a weakend Nazi with an actual Nazi.

Originally Posted by Ooper

C'mon... Obama IS a Socialist. The definition of a Socialist system is an economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise! Look at what he has done with the large corporations, health care, small business, etc... and tell me he is not a Socialist. Please explain to me how he is not!

Are you cashing your "Social Security Checks"...been to the doctor under Medicare...gotten a Prescription paid by the new drug program? All socialist so if you answer Yes to any of these questions then you win a prize cause you are also a socialist.

Now for the truth....Bush bailed out the banks (TARP) Obama bailed out the car companies. Check out how the car companies are doing now. The healthcare plan as written is less socialist then Medicare...

You are going to have to explain what he did to small business and it would be good if you named an actual "small business" that was harmed and by what.

I am hearing a lot of ads out here about how Obama "raised" taxes but so far none of my taxes have gone up. So what actual federal taxes have gone up to date?

I await your answer.

Originally Posted by cologal

Sorry but the tutor thing is a total myth, if you wander down the socialist pathway. And there is no evidence that Obama is a socialist. (Unless you count in the minds of the right wing)

It is so hypocritical to deny that these 2 issues are different. You paint Obama a socialist because of Alinsky, someone he never met, but laugh about a Tea Party guy being a weakend Nazi with an actual Nazi.

Perhaps "tutor" is technically incorrect, but in essence and in all aspects of the definition of "teacher", "mentor" or even "philosophy guru" is absolutely correct. Maybe Obama didn't physically meet him, but 3 disciples of Alinsky taught the future President, at a school Alinsky founded, and he learned his lessons well.

I don't give a whit about the potential congressman you've tried to misdirect this discussion with. He can hardly be compared with the leader and commander-in-chief of this nation with his radical beliefs and his disrespect for the Constitution of the U.S. and the rights of the individual.

I'm pasting a few articles to back up my Obama/Alinsky connections and I can paste a 100 more.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032401152.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/...skys_rule.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n/jim-geraghty

Originally Posted by cologal

Sorry but the tutor thing is a total myth, if you wander down the socialist pathway. And there is no evidence that Obama is a socialist. (Unless you count in the minds of the right wing)

It is so hypocritical to deny that these 2 issues are different. You paint Obama a socialist because of Alinsky, someone he never met, but laugh about a Tea Party guy being a weakend Nazi with an actual Nazi.

I have tried to stay out of this particular discussion, but your statement that there is "no evidence that Obama is a socialist" is almost funny if it were not so serious.

Name ONE...just one position he has held in his short life where he was not in a group created by socialists, being trained by a socialist, or working with known socialist groups...JUST ONE....you cannot !

Then add him being the most liberal senator and I think the case is closed.

He writes of it in his books...class warfare....redistribution of wealth. He spent TWENTY..TWENTY years in a church that taught it from the black perspective. READ HIS BOOKS COLOGAL...he does not disguise it.


PS....I have tried very hard to tone it down, but he is making it quite difficult. As you know,I have called him arrogant and elitist (I am not alone on that as many of the press are now catching on) but today hearing how his wife was politicking inside a voting place just sets me off. They both just believe they are above it all. This would be used as great fodder for him if it were someone from the right. I am not a "tea party" guy, although the movement has its place, but there has got to be a change NOW. This President and his speaker are running us into the ground. First thing...that health care bill MUST BE REPEALED. He did that out of arrogance and behind closed doors and you just continue to defend this man.

Originally Posted by Bucco

I have tried to stay out of this particular discussion, but your statement that there is "no evidence that Obama is a socialist" is almost funny if it were not so serious.

Name ONE...just one position he has held in his short life where he was not in a group created by socialists, being trained by a socialist, or working with known socialist groups...JUST ONE....you cannot !

Then add him being the most liberal senator and I think the case is closed.

He writes of it in his books...class warfare....redistribution of wealth. He spent TWENTY..TWENTY years in a church that taught it from the black perspective. READ HIS BOOKS COLOGAL...he does not disguise it.


PS....I have tried very hard to tone it down, but he is making it quite difficult. As you know,I have called him arrogant and elitist (I am not alone on that as many of the press are now catching on) but today hearing how his wife was politicking inside a voting place just sets me off. They both just believe they are above it all. This would be used as great fodder for him if it were someone from the right. I am not a "tea party" guy, although the movement has its place, but there has got to be a change NOW. This President and his speaker are running us into the ground. First thing...that health care bill MUST BE REPEALED. He did that out of arrogance and behind closed doors and you just continue to defend this man.

Look....I get it you can't stand the guy...nor his wife. I really don't think he is a liberal and I am pretty upset about his stance on Don't Ask Don't Tell. Ok make that ****ed. But painting him as a Socialist, Non Citizen, Muslim Terrorist just is to far out for me. Where was the Tea Party when the Repubs were spending like drunken sailors? The were out still voting for them...now they got religion. Give me a break.

Did you see the billboard some nut put up in Grand Junction? I can assure you that no similar billboard was ever setup against Bush.

If you don't like the Healthcare bill then propose something else. If I lose my job I will not have any Healthcare...can't get it because of my knees. What are people like me supposed to do?

If you don't like the Healthcare bill then propose something else. If I lose my job I will not have any Healthcare...can't get it because of my knees. What are people like me supposed to do?[/QUOTE]



From what I've been reading you don't get Healthcare free in Obamacare, you MUST buy it under "penalty of law". Projections are already saying it will be more expensive than insurance is now. Good luck with that and no job. That's if you can find it in the first place as Insurers are dropping insurance because of the government mandate regarding "pre-existing condition", like your knee, for instance. You need for the whole industry to collapse so that the government, and whichever bureaucrat oversees you claim and your right to whatever treatment, can take "good" care of you.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

If you don't like the Healthcare bill then propose something else. If I lose my job I will not have any Healthcare...can't get it because of my knees. What are people like me supposed to do?

From what I've been reading you don't get Healthcare free in Obamacare, you MUST buy it under "penalty of law". Projections are already saying it will be more expensive than insurance is now. Good luck with that and no job. That's if you can find it in the first place as Insurers are dropping insurance because of the government mandate regarding "pre-existing condition", like your knee, for instance. You need for the whole industry to collapse so that the government, and whichever bureaucrat oversees you claim and your right to whatever treatment, can take "good" care of you.[/QUOTE]

But you propose nothing......and that is the problem. The companies can no longer compete given the cost of healthcare. So something has to be done. What would you do? It seems your solution is every person for themselves..... Currently have a very good job but like many of us still in the workforce we are just one step ahead of the next round of cuts. I have a pretty good nest egg and a company pension. I am old enough that I qualify for retirement healthcare pre Medicare, however it will take quite a bite out of that nest egg.

I am not one of the evil entitlement people.

(Quote from Cologal)
But you propose nothing......and that is the problem. The companies can no longer compete given the cost of healthcare. So something has to be done. What would you do? It seems your solution is every person for themselves..... Currently have a very good job but like many of us still in the workforce we are just one step ahead of the next round of cuts. I have a pretty good nest egg and a company pension. I am old enough that I qualify for retirement healthcare pre Medicare, however it will take quite a bite out of that nest egg.

I am not one of the evil entitlement people.[/QUOTE]



What's needed is to just address the problems without the drastic and humongous step of completely turning over healthcare to a capricious government that will run it and you into the ground.

Propose something? How about this?

We can start by just addressing the problems with current insurance regulations

We can start by letting you buy insurance from anyone in any state.

We can start by letting you pick whatever coverage you deem necessary and important to you in an ala carte manner instead of forcing insurance companies to cover conditions that you don't deem necessary and don't want to pay for. You should be able to buy a catastrophic policy if you want with a high deductible if you choose to bring costs down.

There are plenty of things that could be done to reform insurance. Most of the problems insurance companies have were the result of government interference in the first place. We don't need to further and complete the travesty by giving them complete control over our health care wants and or needs.

Originally Posted by cologal

Look....I get it you can't stand the guy...nor his wife. I really don't think he is a liberal and I am pretty upset about his stance on Don't Ask Don't Tell. Ok make that ****ed. But painting him as a Socialist, Non Citizen, Muslim Terrorist just is to far out for me. Where was the Tea Party when the Repubs were spending like drunken sailors? The were out still voting for them...now they got religion. Give me a break.

Did you see the billboard some nut put up in Grand Junction? I can assure you that no similar billboard was ever setup against Bush.

If you don't like the Healthcare bill then propose something else. If I lose my job I will not have any Healthcare...can't get it because of my knees. What are people like me supposed to do?

1. It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to say that our President is not a liberal as you just did. THAT is just plain impossible.....as a senator for the short time he was in Washington. ALL...EVERYONE...ALL the rating groups ranked him as the most liberal. The discussion was socialist...read his books PLEASE. Read HIS words !

2, You absolute and total love affair with the party is just amazing. I,for one,have said on here and other places that the spending by previous administration was wrong way out of line. There are some who dont care what party is involved as you do with such fervor. I never mention a party...spending does not become less because of the initial after your name.

3. I never, ever once NEVER..NOT ONE TIME...ever made a personal comment about our President and your comment on his wife was just way wayout of line. I believe my mentioning that she violated law by politicking in a polling place was the first mention I have ever made of her.

4. I have a proposal for the health bill and it comes from the President. He said we would have bi partisan talks based on reducing costs. That is what we should do. He never did it...he prefered not to address costs and make backroom deals to pass a law that this country did not want based on ALL polls. So,the proposal is do what you said you were going to do and make it PUBLIC, not private behind closed doors making deals.

5. I have no idea what billboard you mention. I do recall moveon and other groups actually selling tshirts and the like representing President Bush as a monkey and other things.

READ COLOGAL...READ what this President has said he believes in. NOT what he says at these political rallies...remember all the stuff he said to make you be the ardent supporter you are ? He hasnt done those things either !

If he's such a socialist (and I've asked this before and never gotten an answer from a staunch or arch conservative) then why is his administration selling it's stakes in Citigroup and General Motors?

Originally Posted by cologal

Are you cashing your "Social Security Checks"...been to the doctor under Medicare...gotten a Prescription paid by the new drug program? All socialist so if you answer Yes to any of these questions then you win a prize cause you are also a socialist.


I await your answer.

My answer is I have done NONE of these... not one! My answer is NO SS checks, NO Medicare, and NO Prescriptions paid by the new drug program.

Originally Posted by djplong

If he's such a socialist (and I've asked this before and never gotten an answer from a staunch or arch conservative) then why is his administration selling it's stakes in Citigroup and General Motors?

How about politics? The Obama Regime is trying to win an election in November and your questioning or dismissal of his socialist roots by the government's underselling of GM stock and the conflict of interest in Citigroup's acquisition suggests to me he is making some progress with that.

The acquisition of the control of these 2 industry giants has only been applauded by those with a big government/socialist agenda of their own in my view.

When you want to change the fundamental makeup of a nation and a people you have to do it incrementally and not take such a huge bite if you want the masses to stay calm.