And the more who go on the dole, the more the shrinking number of taxpayers have to support - and that means higher taxes.

The societal problems which have led to multi-generational families on welfare, or always in line for Toys for Tots while on a cellphone/IPOD, or sporting a $100 set of painted nails, or recently decorated with $1,000 worth of body art, are not going to be corrected by making welfare a "right."

We complain that unemployment is rising, but we still have over 10 million "undocumented" workers - and if you replaced them with the current US citizens who are unemployed, we'd have a ZERO unemployment rate.

The stock market is back at the same level as when the Dot.Com's tanked. It hasn't gotten worse than that, and the world survived without the US going $1Trillion+ further in debt.

Helping those who have found themselves in dire straights is an American tradition. Subsidizing families for generations only because the agencies which dispense the money need to keep a case-rate at a certain high to justify the jobs of the case workers and the agency itself seems what has happened. And what is to insure that when the "problems" have dissipated, that the government agencies and workers put in place to dispense this generation of funds will ever go away. Or will we have more give-aways in the future because we can't get rid of the give-away staff?

“The wise man saves for the future, but the foolish man spends whatever he gets.”

Proverbs 21:20

Seems we are also spending all that we don't have as well. How foolish does that make us?

We made a decision in November to go this way...the country did it with their eyes wide open. This, and all the other antics already (waiving ethics rules, etc,) are just the beginning. It was predictable !

It's kind of interesting, yet also quite predictable that many are pronouncing every problem every day as "Obama's" and occuring since November. Let's at least keep in perspective the fact that he walked into a mess set in motion by those in office long before him and some of the irresponsible public at large. No president in history has walked into a situation of this magnitude, with no prior "rules for repair" to glean from. It is so easy to pronounce the present administration a failure this early into the process. Most prudent people realize that whatever unfortunate soul walked into this mess would untimately face the rath of the other party, and any candidate would have ample ammunition already in place to castigate him, ammunition put in place by those before him. More useless posturing that gets us no further ahead.
I am puzzled that people on either side of our pitiful partisan arguments can be haughty enough to think they can be completely right or completely wrong with regard to solutions to our present economic catastrophe. Lots of pundits on either side are so concrete in their assessment what what is right and wrong about the present "stimulus package"...where were all these brilliant scholars over the last several years as we sank deeper and deeper into the situation we now find ourselves in?
Again, it really seems quite predictable that any candidiate from any party that "won" this election would be almost immediately be the subject of the blame game from the start with "opponents" lashing out at them from the beginning because it is so easy to do so. I happen to think it is important to remember what/who got us here and keep some fair perspective as we attempt to navigate in unknown waters.
I cannot pretend to know what parts of this will ultimately be successful, and with honesty not many others can either. There are certainly parts of polices that we will all disagree with, but to simply condem every single step of the way is unrealistic at this point. Further, no matter who would have won this election, 4 years down the road we would not be back in the promised land, but it will be so easy to condemn at that point. I am doing my best to learn, voice opposition to things I don't agree with, support the things I do, and avoid blanket condemnations based on personality and tired political ideaolgy that really doesn't fit the present situation any longer.
I hope and pray daily that we achieve a collection of souls with the knowledge,insight,and ability to listen that will help guide us through this. There is no way we will all be satisfied every step of the way but some compromise, support, and willingness to change seem to be absolutely necessary to hope to achieve some success.

Your points are well taken and I understand your feelings. HOWEVER...

I, and others, predicted BEFORE President Obama was even the nominee that should he be elected that we would have an administration/congress (the perfect storm) that despite all the pretty words would be ultra political (waiving of ethics, attempt to control the census, etc) ultra government (Nothing like the current doings in WASH) and would lead us down this socialist path. My words are not those of someone who didnt say it BEFORE he was nominated. If you did ANY research on his background you would find that he is and was always of this mind.

He and the congress have done nothing to change my mind in any way...fact is they are doing it quicker. Someday the pretty oratory will wear thin and folks will wake up !!!!

I also might add since you mentioned this...NEVER have I said anything about President Obama personally...NEVER. He is a smart and obviously articulate man but there is nothing in his background that would indicate he will be anything but what he is..a smart politician who believes in socialism !

I will say what I have been saying since the election...I pray I am wrong....do not think there is a chance I am...but if I am, I will be here saying mea culpa, but thus far not even a hint of anything that could not have been predicted !!!

Knowing how sensitive you are to perceived criticism I went out of my way to make sure I did not address you personally. Do me the same favor and save your pronouncements on your perception of my depth of research for those interested in them. You are not acurate in your prononucements no do I care to be caught up in petty personality issues.
Further your opinions on what "mind" Obama is of are just that..opinions, no more right or wrong than those with differing opinions.
Finally, I "NEVER" addressed anything you said or didn't personally say.."NEVER"...so leave me out of it.
I am looking for those thoughts that are open minded, challenging, and looking to participate in seeking a solution, whether they fit my ideology or not. Tired old partisan blame tactics and ideology will not fit or work in today's situation and I have decided to move beyond them in my thought process.

Sorry dont meet your standards...I promise to work at it.

First of all, OF COURSE what I say is my opinion SAME AS WHAT YOU SAY is yours. Is that not what this board is about ?

I shared NO perception of your research and in fact didnt even think about YOU when I was typing. In rereading perhaps I offended you with my misuse of the caps and you took that personally.

I surely will "leave you out of it" as you say....didnt think I "brought you into it"......you said in your post "based on personality" and that small part of your post is what I addressed although at no time did I mention you or your post excecpt when I said your points were well taken.

You said "It's kind of interesting, yet also quite predictable that many are pronouncing every problem every day as "Obama's" and occuring since November". I ignored that since I have not seen that happen at all anywhere.....most of the discussion Ihave seen have been about his solutions.

To your comments....."You are not acurate in your prononucements no do I care to be caught up in petty personality issues. "......I never professed to being toally accurate in what you call my "pronouncements" BUT I did think this was a place to share opinions....and have no idea whatsoever what you mean by "petty personality issues" as again, my post began with "Your points are well taken and I understand your feeling...".......what did you want me to do if I disagree?

I DONT believe myself to be close minded as you suggest...perhaps those who say that are just a bit, dont you think ? I said and said it over and over again how I feel and that I will be the first in line to say I was wrong (done it many times)...perhaps you should open your mind a bit to other thoughts instead of condemning those who feel strongly the other way.

Your comment about "Tired old partisan blame tactics and ideology will not fit or work in today's situation" is confusing as I blamed NOBODY for anything...but your comment does sound like a sound bite from the campaign. If you disagree you are not open !!! Glad you are moving beyond those tired old partisan tactics as you say, but you obviously dont feel voting on a bill without reading it BECAUSE of party is a bad thing but I do, and feel just as strongly about those who voted against the bill because of party pollitics.

It is a two way street and to be so smitten with a policy because someone who is able to say things in such convincing manner tells you that this is bi partisan does not make it so. IF criticizing the current administration and congress is preceived to be "tired old partisan politics" even if the criticism is necessary or valid, then they have accomplished what they want !!!

I really had to think before replying to this, but I will, you are accountable for what you say.
"If you did ANY research on his background you would find that he is and was always of this mind." Your words. Your perception of my research.

"I also might add since you mentioned this...NEVER have I said anything about President Obama personally...NEVER. He is a smart and obviously articulate man but there is nothing in his background that would indicate he will be anything but what he is..a smart politician who believes in socialism !" I never said you did.
"perhaps you should open your mind a bit to other thoughts instead of condemning those who feel strongly the other way." I never condemned you or others for their opinion, and I submit that I am quite open minded, your judgement not withstanding.
"Your comment about "Tired old partisan blame tactics and ideology will not fit or work in today's situation" is confusing as I blamed NOBODY for anything...but your comment does sound like a sound bite from the campaign. ". It really shouldn't be confusing as it is a simple and straightfoward statement of opinion. You seem to have a penchant for turning things into some personal judgement of you...the statement was general. As for it sounding like like a sound bite from the campaign...that's kinda funny, but I feel safe in saying there are alot of people fed up with antiquated partisan bickering down lines drawn in an era that was much different than today's.
"but you obviously dont feel voting on a bill without reading it BECAUSE of party is a bad thing but I do, and feel just as strongly about those who voted against the bill because of party pollitics.". Again, how you can pronounce what I "obviously" feel is beyond me, and frankly innapropriate.

In essence I took the time to answer this because you should be held accountable for the things you say. I have no personal issues with you but will not be bullied or allow inaccurate statements about me to stand. This should be a place to exchange ideas and participate in healthy debate, not a place however where innacurate statements or accusations are allowed to stand. That is what drives so many from the forum.

Imho...
 

Strictly my opinion, I think the only mistake that President Obama is making is to try the "high road" to bi-partisanship. Seriously, why bother. Listening to McCain and the rest was a joke. These are the same people that presided over and got us into the fragile place we are today. Ya, Like I'd really want their input. :yuck: They are showing themselves for what they are. "Fiscal Responsibility" HA! Don't make me laugh.

Let's keep our eye on the ball. This is a global crisis and not just an American crisis. And Bucco, if I'm understanding you correctly, and that's always a big "IF", one prediction of yours might be right. If I know my Chicago homies, and I think I do, there will come a time --- not far down the road, when President Obama will say "OK, I've tried. Enough! Let's get this done with or without you" (Referring to the ultra right conservatives.) The Republicans are taking a big gamble here. And I don't think they're going to win come election time. Yes, the American people would like the parties to work together, and Obama said "We will extend a hand, if you unclench your fist." He meant that for this country too, not just others. Well, he extended a hand and got it slapped. The great thing is, he will learn from this mistake. The Republicans did not unclench their fists. And now they can shove them where the sun don't shine, because President Obama is intelligent enough to now change his negotiating tactics. Just watch.

President Obama is looking ahead, far reaching. There are some on this board that are so myopic they cannot possibly find anything supportive to say about him. As I said on another board, you should be praying, PRAYING, that your President succeeds.

Simple solution for McCain and friends.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/16/begala.carolina/

Well stated. I hate that it is so but I am not naive enough to think everyone is willing to set their own political/personal interests aside to some degree and compromise, although I will still hold out hope.

The myopic reference is quite aprapro, again though I would like to think that somehow there will be a meeting of the minds on what is best for our country long term (a tough thing to discern at this point) by well informed and concerned people. New times and new situations require innovative solutions and a willingness to change..on "both sides" such as they are. I am holding out hope and offering support to those that are willing to do the right thing for our country aside from personal gain or staunch idealogy.

Two brief points: 1) Those of us that venture into the political forum have vastly different definitions of "success" and 2) If Nancy Pelosi in any way is a representative for the Democratic Party and President Obama, she's never come close to an unclenched political fist. She is a political combatant.

If we get this passionate about our political views on this forum, imagine what it's like in the halls of Congress. Bi-partisan is an oxymoron.

Very well said.

Yes!
 

I completely agree with you on Pelosi, she needs to be reigned in. Obama will get to it, just watch. ;)

Looking for bipartisanship (for both Dems & Reps) has always been looking for partners in crime and blame downstream should **** hit the fan. When there were no Reps in the conference committees to resolve differences in the House and Senate bills, 'nuff said about bipartisanship.

There's clenched fists on both sides of the aisle, and most have the middle finger extended towards the taxpayer.

It's a global crisis only because most of the world relies on US consumerism, and when the US slows its buying, the rest of the world is impacted. Ironically, all of those outsourced jobs are the first to be affected, followed by cheap goods made in Communist countries which don't have any labor-protection standards and abysmal human rights records - and those nations seem to all have "favored nation trading partner" status - thanks to lobbyists who bankroll Dems and Reps alike.

The "Say something good about Pres. Obama" - the choice for Secretary of Homeland Security was excellent. Ms. Napolitano is the right person at the right time of DHS' history.

The prayers for Pres. Obama being successful are legion. However, many of the prayers are that he remains presidential versus pseudo-regal. There is quite a difference.