[biker1]

There is no arbitrary raising of the rec (aka amenities) fee. The increases are tied to the CPI. The Villages can do whatever they want with the greens fees on the Championship courses since they own them.

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Lot of good stuff here. Bottom Line is 1 good super per Championship Course. A little raise on green fee and rec fee will do the job. Whether you play golf or not a 10$ rec fee increase will do wonders for the executive courses. I dont play pickle ball yet I dont have a problem with their impact on the rec fees.

Better conditioned courses will raise market value of all properties, as it does everywhere in the country. We all benefit, golfers or not.

Its really that simple.................

[pauld315]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Do not think a $ 10 increase in the amenity fee will go over very well with those of us who do not play golf or golf at the executive courses.

A fairer way would be to raise the trail fees. Yearly trail fees of less than 150 per household is insanely low. They should double that and charge by the person to become cost competitive with other courses in the area. Also, why is it that when you play the championship courses there is no trail fee? You won't find any other courses like that. In most courses, it is free to walk the course but you have to pay between 10 and 15 dollars for a trail fee in addition to the greens fees.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by pauld315

A fairer way would be to raise the trail fees. Yearly trail fees of less than 150 per household is insanely low. They should double that and charge by the person to become cost competitive with other courses in the area. Also, why is it that when you play the championship courses there is no trail fee? You won't find any other courses like that. In most courses, it is free to walk the course but you have to pay between 10 and 15 dollars for a trail fee in addition to the greens fees.

Really???? Name some courses like that.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by biker1

No worries, it doesn't work that way. The amenity fee increases each year are tied to the CPI. There aren't any arbitrary increases.

Worst part of this is that very few items in the CPI are golf related. Fertilizer is now 2X more today than 3 years ago and CPI over past 3 years probably went up +/- 20%

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by C4Boston

Curious about cost for professional management company such as Golf Course Advisory & Maintenance Services | Consulting | Jobs | New & Used Equipment

Was a member of a club that was affiliated with CCA(Club Corporation of America) years ago. They managed over 300 clubs in the US. Bet they charged 20-25% more so that they could make money.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by pauld315

A fairer way would be to raise the trail fees. Yearly trail fees of less than 150 per household is insanely low. They should double that and charge by the person to become cost competitive with other courses in the area. Also, why is it that when you play the championship courses there is no trail fee? You won't find any other courses like that. In most courses, it is free to walk the course but you have to pay between 10 and 15 dollars for a trail fee in addition to the greens fees.

TV is kind of unique as most of the players use their own carts and most of the courses in Florida include a golf cart in their fees.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by kkingston57

Was a member of a club that was affiliated with CCA(Club Corporation of America) years ago. They managed over 300 clubs in the US. Bet they charged 20-25% more so that they could make money.

Club Corps business model (as well as Troon & others), is simple. Economy of scale. Hire a #2 guy from a decent club and make him your superintendent. Have a "Sr. Superintendent" that oversees 8-10 Jr. Supers. Share equipment if necessary. Have a staff of 1000's to swap around as necessary. Have the collective knowledge of zillions of golf professionals and turf-management experts.

They can run courses cheaper than most clubs can run their own and they're making money on the arbitrage.

Similar to the business model I suggest for The Villages, instead of sub-contracting the work, individually.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Club Corps business model (as well as Troon & others), is simple. Economy of scale. Hire a #2 guy from a decent club and make him your superintendent. Have a "Sr. Superintendent" that oversees 8-10 Jr. Supers. Share equipment if necessary. Have a staff of 1000's to swap around as necessary. Have the collective knowledge of zillions of golf professionals and turf-management experts.

They can run courses cheaper than most clubs can run their own and they're making money on the arbitrage.

Similar to the business model I suggest for The Villages, instead of sub-contracting the work, individually.

Agree, but comparing Troon and CCA courses(one of which is/was Pinehurst) to TV is like comparing apples to oranges. TV will never come close to a Troon course like some in the Scottsdale Az area,

[UpNorth]

Originally Posted by kkingston57

TV is kind of unique as most of the players use their own carts and most of the courses in Florida include a golf cart in their fees.

Nice tidy profit for the course. No need to maintain a fleet and provide you with a cart.

[JGVillages]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Well, everybody has put their 2 cents in on this subject matter,BUT, no viable solutions seem to be suggested. The one thing we don't need is more managers.
Managers have no expertise in agronomy. Good Superintendants do.

Please correct me if I am wrong, BUT, I don't believe each Championship Course has its own superintendent. Most 18 or 27 or even 36 hole golf courses have a superintendent. These folks are in constant contact with course conditions and do preventative and corrections quicker or they lose their jobs! If each course has its own Super, now, than changes need to be made.

Here is a possible solution, if you raise the green fees 5$ on Championship Golf Courses you have enough money to install a Talented Super (125,000 salary)and will have an additional 225,000 for other supplies needed. For the number crunchers, 70,000 rounds of golf at 5$ more -= 350,000. And these rounds may be on the low side so there is even more $ available to insure better conditions. Then each course will be maintained better because you have a talented eye on them and they are not over worked to handle multiple golf courses. Evidently current supers are over worked and under paid. Two causes for failure. One Super to each course.

And yes, courses will share equipment for tasks that are only a few times a year,BUT, you need talented eyes on the ground on each course DAILY.

As far as the Executive courses are concerned, they are covered in the Rec fee. If you raise that fee 10$ then you can install 7-8 Supers to handle 4-5 courses each. That is doable for the 9- hole Executives.
If salaried correctly, you will not have a hard time finding Talented Supers.

These Championship courses are an excellent design for its users. You can land an airplane on most fairways. Fairway bunkers are more scenic than troublesome and greenside bunkers, if any, are very tame. They are in fact perfect for easy maintenance as long as someone is paying attention.

As with any new tax, it is welcome if the money allocation goes to the right place.
Invest in more Supers to get better conditions and people will understand and accept. Fixing ball marks etc is great, BUT, you have to have a talented eye daily to improve conditions.

So the mantra for Championship Courses is 1 course 1 Super. For the execs. its
4 to 1. There you have it, my 2 cents.

Since the Developer has one Golf Course Architect that constructs all the Villages Courses, and since course conditions have been an issue for the 18 years I have been here, lets not put the cart before the horse. Have an independent expert in golf course construction and course agronomy inspect the course(s) construction standard to determine if a form of renovation is necessary, prior to hiring a number of new superintendents that may not realistically be able to solve the problem. Even a Master Barber can’t grow hair on a bald head.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Well, everybody has put their 2 cents in on this subject matter,BUT, no viable solutions seem to be suggested. The one thing we don't need is more managers.
Managers have no expertise in agronomy. Good Superintendants do.

Please correct me if I am wrong, BUT, I don't believe each Championship Course has its own superintendent. Most 18 or 27 or even 36 hole golf courses have a superintendent. These folks are in constant contact with course conditions and do preventative and corrections quicker or they lose their jobs! If each course has its own Super, now, than changes need to be made.

Here is a possible solution, if you raise the green fees 5$ on Championship Golf Courses you have enough money to install a Talented Super (125,000 salary)and will have an additional 225,000 for other supplies needed. For the number crunchers, 70,000 rounds of golf at 5$ more -= 350,000. And these rounds may be on the low side so there is even more $ available to insure better conditions. Then each course will be maintained better because you have a talented eye on them and they are not over worked to handle multiple golf courses. Evidently current supers are over worked and under paid. Two causes for failure. One Super to each course.

And yes, courses will share equipment for tasks that are only a few times a year,BUT, you need talented eyes on the ground on each course DAILY.

As far as the Executive courses are concerned, they are covered in the Rec fee. If you raise that fee 10$ then you can install 7-8 Supers to handle 4-5 courses each. That is doable for the 9- hole Executives.
If salaried correctly, you will not have a hard time finding Talented Supers.

These Championship courses are an excellent design for its users. You can land an airplane on most fairways. Fairway bunkers are more scenic than troublesome and greenside bunkers, if any, are very tame. They are in fact perfect for easy maintenance as long as someone is paying attention.

As with any new tax, it is welcome if the money allocation goes to the right place.
Invest in more Supers to get better conditions and people will understand and accept. Fixing ball marks etc is great, BUT, you have to have a talented eye daily to improve conditions.

So the mantra for Championship Courses is 1 course 1 Super. For the execs. its
4 to 1. There you have it, my 2 cents.

As long as your proposed increases are for golfers only. You think golf course are bad you should see how some (some not all) of pickleball courts, tennis courts, and pool tables are taken care of.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by JGVillages

Since the Developer has one Golf Course Architect that constructs all the Villages Courses, and since course conditions have been an issue for the 18 years I have been here, lets not put the cart before the horse.
.

Ding, DING, DING. Winner winner, chicken dinner.

[Rwirish]

It doesn’t solve El Niño!

[Papa_lecki]

I think this plan would pay for itself with the increased volume on Championship courses.
How many rounds are played by villagers off campus?
How many villagers do not have a golf weekend with old friends on campus because they are unsure of the conditions?
If the Champ courses were all nice and consistent, more villagers would play them.

[GizmoWhiskers]

How about T V monitoring how often certain homeowners are lining up new or changing visitor passes?

Short term rentals have new passes created on a constant weekly basis most of the time. A lot of these homes ADVERTISE that they can get visitor passes for their "guests".

Thus every 1, 3, 5, 7, up to 30 days hotel-like benefit passes are created by T V computer system (totally trackable) equaling amenity and golf course excessive use per household on an annual basis. Realistically the average resident does not use the amenities as much as rotating temporary frequently changing short term guests.

Might get somewhere with charging short term rental homes an EXTRA, in my opinion extremely high, short term rental amenity FEE for turning T V into a vacation hotel spot and destination VS a residential retirement community. They of course will in turn spread that fee to vacationers who should be paying the deteriating golf course costs.