[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by sounding

There is NO increased ocean acidity -- only a tiny decrease in alkalinity. Plus, coral diversity was much higher in the past when CO2 levels much higher than now. Oceans convert CO2 to carbonates which corals use to build coral reefs. CO2 is plant food on land and in oceans -- it is the foundation of earth's food chain -- and more is better.

From the source The Smithsonian Institute. Ocean water has become 30% more acidic during the last 200 years. I am just the messenger and the message is everyone should read the Smithsonian Institute ocean science article.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

From the source The Smithsonian Institute. Ocean water has become 30% more acidic during the last 200 years. I am just the messenger and the message is everyone should read the Smithsonian Institute ocean science article.

As a life-long student of atmospheric and climate science, I also study how people and governments manipulate data and alter statistics -- this has been going on ever since man arrived on earth. Most people also do this by studying fantastic claims as seen by TV ads before buying. At the Weather Club, we discuss these types of claims all the time. But regarding the 30% acidity claim, please tell me what the pH level was before the Smithsonian claim and what it is now. It's amazing what you'll find when looking at "data" versus "narrative." Data always trumps narrative.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

It doesn’t work that way

I think it sorta does. Check with the scientists who are experts in that field. Read scientific research and journals. I think we can find out, if we want to.

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Are those the same "real" scientists who predicted the polar ice caps would be gone by 2010?????

No, the climate experts who predicted the polar ice caps would be gone are climate experts from the other side.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

All reefs around the world are predicted in the FUTURE 75 years to be down 90%. In other words, reefs WILL be down to only 10%. According to that link on the Smithsonian warm water corals in shallow water have an ENORMOUS effect on all marine life. Basically, I take that to mean that people will not be seeing fish in the Publix supermarkets of the Future.

In the Smithsonian article, it was stated........that the past 200 years ocean water has become 30% more ACIDIC and that is FASTER than any CHANGE in the LAST 50 MILLION YEARS
........I can imagine that the last 200 years of increased ocean acidity relates to man's increased CO2 production which increased dramatically with the invention of the internal combustion engine.

The Smithsonian says pH levels are more acidic and dropped by 30% ... saying it dropped from 8.2 to 8.1 pH. So just how does 30% reflect that 0.1 drop using the 0-14 pH scale? Answer: they failed the "new math" course and now push junk science. And exactly what does a pH of 8.1 mean? Answer: a pH of 8.1 is alkaline -- not acid. Furthermore, a simple scan of historic ocean pH levels shows it has been cycling between 8.3 and 8.1 for hundreds of thousands of years -- and probably more. The oceans were never acidic even when CO2 levels were 15 times higher than today. In the meantime, no one has ever dissolved while swimming in the ocean.

[tuccillo]

pH is a logarithmic scale (log base 10, not natural log). In case you don't understand logarithms, a logarithm is an exponent. A drop of about 0.1 of pH is about a 20-30% change in the ion concentration. Nobody said the oceans were becoming an acid (pH less than 7). They are becoming less alkaline. The Smithsonian article is correct.

Originally Posted by sounding

The Smithsonian says pH levels are more acidic and dropped by 30% ... saying it dropped from 8.2 to 8.1 pH. So just how does 30% reflect that 0.1 drop using the 0-14 pH scale? Answer: they failed the "new math" course and now push junk science. And exactly what does a pH of 8.1 mean? Answer: a pH of 8.1 is alkaline -- not acid. Furthermore, a simple scan of historic ocean pH levels shows it has been cycling between 8.3 and 8.1 for hundreds of thousands of years -- and probably more. The oceans were never acidic even when CO2 levels were 15 times higher than today. In the meantime, no one has ever dissolved while swimming in the ocean.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

pH is a logarithmic scale (log base 10, not natural log). In case you don't understand logarithms, a logarithm is an exponent. A drop of about 0.1 of pH is about a 20-30% change in the ion concentration. Nobody said the oceans were becoming an acid (pH less than 7). They are becoming less alkaline. The Smithsonian article is correct.

Thank you. I was going to respond similarly, but without your eloquence.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

pH is a logarithmic scale (log base 10, not natural log). In case you don't understand logarithms, a logarithm is an exponent. A drop of about 0.1 of pH is about a 20-30% change in the ion concentration. Nobody said the oceans were becoming an acid (pH less than 7). They are becoming less alkaline. The Smithsonian article is correct.

Perfect pH answer. This is not my first pH rodeo. This is how climate alarmism works -- pick the most alarming scale -- and/or cherry pick data. Yes indeed, the ocean became less alkaline (and not more acidic like the Smithsonian said). This "less alkaline" cycle happens about every 100,000 years during Interglacial Warming Periods -- like the one we are currently in. And here we come to the bottom line -- these changes all fall within historic natural cycles. There is no climate emergency -- and there is no proof "man-made" CO2 has caused any climate to change.

[tuccillo]

Apparently it is your first pH rodeo as your previous post showed that you didn't understand that pH was a logarithmic scale since you accused the authors of the Smithsonian article of not being able to do math. Ironic, don't you think. You should just stop now.

Originally Posted by sounding

Perfect pH answer. This is not my first pH rodeo. This is how climate alarmism works -- pick the most alarming scale -- and/or cherry pick data. Yes indeed, the ocean became less alkaline (and not more acidic like the Smithsonian said). This "less alkaline" cycle happens about every 100,000 years during Interglacial Warming Periods -- like the one we are currently in. And here we come to the bottom line -- these changes all fall within historic natural cycles. There is no climate emergency -- and there is no proof "man-made" CO2 has caused any climate to change.

[tuccillo]

Thanks. I am continually amazed at the nonsense I see posted.

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Thank you. I was going to respond similarly, but without your eloquence.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by sounding

Perfect pH answer. This is not my first pH rodeo. This is how climate alarmism works -- pick the most alarming scale -- and/or cherry pick data. Yes indeed, the ocean became less alkaline (and not more acidic like the Smithsonian said). This "less alkaline" cycle happens about every 100,000 years during Interglacial Warming Periods -- like the one we are currently in. And here we come to the bottom line -- these changes all fall within historic natural cycles. There is no climate emergency -- and there is no proof "man-made" CO2 has caused any climate to change.

The proof is there, if you would truly care to research it with an open mind, except the facts, rather than just try to bolster misinformation.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

Apparently it is your first pH rodeo as your previous post showed that you didn't understand that pH was a logarithmic scale since you accused the authors of the Smithsonian article of not being able to do math. Ironic, don't you think. You should just stop now.

Why is the title of the Smithsonian article called "Ocean Acidification"? Why not say corals need more CO2 and subsequent carbonates to grow more reefs? Why not say global warming advances coral diversity, because corals love warm waters and their diversity was much greater when CO2 levels were much greater? Why not say the Great Barrier Reef is now at its greatest extent in 37 years. Why not say there is no climate emergency -- just climate alarmism?

[tuccillo]

I personally don't care about the title of the article. A decrease in alkalinity can be referred to as becoming more acidic. Regardless, I was pointing out the obvious error in your post about the Smithsonian authors not being able to do math. Again, you should just stop now. I won't be wasting anymore time here.

Originally Posted by sounding

Why is the title of the Smithsonian article called "Ocean Acidification"? Why not say corals need more CO2 and subsequent carbonates to grow more reefs? Why not say global warming advances coral diversity, because corals love warm waters and their diversity was much greater when CO2 levels were much greater? Why not say the Great Barrier Reef is now at its greatest extent in 37 years. Why not say there is no climate emergency -- just climate alarmism?

[sounding]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

The proof is there, if you would truly care to research it with an open mind, except the facts, rather than just try to bolster misinformation.

That "proof" does not exist. CO2 is not a problem. CO2 is innocent until proven guilty -- that's the law. The core claim is that "man-made" CO2 is causing global warming, but there is no data to support that. See for yourself, just Google this for example ... How much has "man-made" CO2 warmed earth's temperature last year?

[sounding]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

I personally don't care about the title of the article. A decrease in alkalinity can be referred to as becoming more acidic. Regardless, I was pointing out the obvious error in your post about the Smithsonian authors not being able to do math. Again, you should just stop now. I won't be wasting anymore time here.

The Smithsonian mathematicians actually achieved their goal -- to alarm the public about a non-existent problem. Just review this thread -- the "man-on-the-street" actually believes the oceans are 30% more acidic -- not realizing the details. Bottom line ... no one can provide data showing that "man-made" CO2 causes global warming.