Originally Posted by Blackbird45 (Post 2148076)

If you believe in climate change or not you have to believe in pollution. We create so much trash we're running out of landfills. We've dumped so many chemicals in our water ways we're not sure if it's safe to drink and we pump tons of toxic fumes in our air every year. Doesn't anyone believe in the old saying "Don't s##t where you eat".

Originally Posted by surf daddy (Post 2148077)

i believe that i do understand science, and scientific methods. I have an education and experience to corroborate that. I believe in climate change, but not for the reasons projected by politicians.

I am tired of people categorizing me as being a science denier.

The climate change predictions are based on models. The models can easily be flawed for a variety of reasons. The outcomes can easily be manipulated by the algorithm as well as attributes used in the model. So here are two real world climate related examples. Consider the so called spaghetti charts used to predict paths of hurricanes, that the meteorologist point to, just days or even hours before expected landfall. There are 22 possible paths, with some wildly different. No model gets it right. Next, consider the weather predictions for precipitation. Last summer in michigan, we had a day with a rain forecast of 0% chance for the next 12 hour period. You guessed it. There was a huge downpour.

I am not disparaging meteorologists. I am just saying that weather prediction is difficult in the very near term. Long term has to be orders of magnitude more difficult.

I learned a long time ago that data can be truncated, extrapolated or interpolated to prove any point you want to prove. This allows corrupt people to get the result that they want.

“building consensus is a politico-religious concept, not a scientific one. Consensus involves creating broad agreement amongst a group of people, but science should never lean on agreement to provide a false sense of comfort. When forming their worldviews, scientists must emphasize the evidence, not the opinions of their fellow scientists.”

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2148107)

Many waterways are much cleaner than before. Hudson river fish were destroyed by GE dumping years ago. Now you can fish there.

Do believe in many areas of the world the air is cleaner. However some countries like China could care less about clean air. We can do tremendous things here while they pollute the world

Originally Posted by Blackbird45 (Post 2148142)

Oh, I'm sorry until everyone gets into the boat with us, we should drown in our own sewage. Look we cannot dictate what other countries should do, but if the quality of life improves in our country because we can clean up our pollution you can bet people in those countries will demand their leaders do the same.

Originally Posted by Surf Daddy (Post 2148077)

I believe that I do understand science, and scientific methods. I have an education and experience to corroborate that. I believe in climate change, but not for the reasons projected by politicians.

I am tired of people categorizing me as being a science denier.

The climate change predictions are based on models. The models can easily be flawed for a variety of reasons. The outcomes can easily be manipulated by the algorithm as well as attributes used in the model. So here are two real world climate related examples. Consider the so called spaghetti charts used to predict paths of hurricanes, that the meteorologist point to, just days or even hours before expected landfall. There are 22 possible paths, with some wildly different. No model gets it right. Next, consider the weather predictions for precipitation. Last summer in Michigan, we had a day with a rain forecast of 0% chance for the next 12 hour period. You guessed it. There was a huge downpour.

I am not disparaging meteorologists. I am just saying that weather prediction is difficult in the very near term. Long term has to be orders of magnitude more difficult.

I learned a long time ago that data can be truncated, extrapolated or interpolated to prove any point you want to prove. This allows corrupt people to get the result that they want.

“Building consensus is a politico-religious concept, not a scientific one. Consensus involves creating broad agreement amongst a group of people, but science should never lean on agreement to provide a false sense of comfort. When forming their worldviews, scientists must emphasize the evidence, not the opinions of their fellow scientists.”

Originally Posted by coralway (Post 2147698)

You’re in the wrong group pal. This is The Villages, where an overwhelming majority do not believe in science, let alone climate change.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2148107)

Many waterways are much cleaner than before. Hudson river fish were destroyed by GE dumping years ago. Now you can fish there.

Do believe in many areas of the world the air is cleaner. However some countries like China could care less about clean air. We can do tremendous things here while they pollute the world

Originally Posted by coralway (Post 2147698)

You’re in the wrong group pal. This is The Villages, where an overwhelming majority do not believe in science, let alone climate change.

Originally Posted by sounding (Post 2148150)

Agree -- consensus is not science ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1-FxwVkQ60

Originally Posted by Carlsondm (Post 2148170)

Thanks for telling us what we think. I for one am open to new discussion groups and appreciate news of outside groups.

Originally Posted by coralway (Post 2147698)

You’re in the wrong group pal. This is The Villages, where an overwhelming majority do not believe in science, let alone climate change.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2147713)

Here we go again:rant-rave::rant-rave::rant-rave:

Is there a tooth fairy club??? After all, it would need to exist to gather all the believers in the tooth fairy, including presentations by tooth fairy "experts" and to call everyone else a "tooth fairy de-nye-ah"

Originally Posted by rsmurano (Post 2148218)

There isn’t a tooth fairy? Next you’re going to tell me there isn’t a Santa Claus!
The climate change hoax has been going on since the tooth fairy saga started.
For many decades, I can remember we went thru;
Global cooling
Hole in the ozone layer
Global warming
20 years ago, they were predicting all the ice caps will be gone in 10 years.

6 years ago, we had many people that know nothing about climate change predicting the we have only 10 years before global disaster if we don’t adopt the green new deal. So in 4 years we are gone. Who believes this stuff? There were 130,000 ice caps when Gore started this hoax decades ago and there are still 130,000 today

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2147713)

Here we go again:rant-rave::rant-rave::rant-rave:

Is there a tooth fairy club??? After all, it would need to exist to gather all the believers in the tooth fairy, including presentations by tooth fairy "experts" and to call everyone else a "tooth fairy de-nye-ah"

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148267)

The "tooth fairy" is NOT melting glaciers all over the world. Even in California and the Rocky Mountains where rivers and dams are drying out and farmers are losing their life's work. Globally, glaciers will lose 40% of their ice by 2050. Glacier National Park will have about ZERO glaciers as soon as 2030. The tooth fairy is not expected to make large areas of Africa and Asia UNINHABITABLE in 80 years. It will be caused by EXTREME HEAT according to a report put together by the UN and the Red Cross.

The last 8 years have seen record heat worldwide. The Gulf of Mexico is currently at a record heat of around 90 degrees. Increasing heat is expected for the next 30 years, at least, and hurricanes will continue to be bigger and stronger with more rain and flooding like hurricane Ian. Florida is talking about rebuilding the damaged coastal areas, but that is a big mistake. Florida should stop all new building or rebuilding within one mile of the water line. This is something Oregon did years ago. I assume and fear that Florida will not be so logical and that KILLER HURRICANES like Ian will continue into the future, like next year!

Originally Posted by Blackbird45 (Post 2148142)

Oh, I'm sorry until everyone gets into the boat with us, we should drown in our own sewage. Look we cannot dictate what other countries should do, but if the quality of life improves in our country because we can clean up our pollution you can bet people in those countries will demand their leaders do the same.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148267)

The "tooth fairy" is NOT melting glaciers all over the world. Even in California and the Rocky Mountains where rivers and dams are drying out and farmers are losing their life's work. Globally, glaciers will lose 40% of their ice by 2050. Glacier National Park will have about ZERO glaciers as soon as 2030. The tooth fairy is not expected to make large areas of Africa and Asia UNINHABITABLE in 80 years. It will be caused by EXTREME HEAT according to a report put together by the UN and the Red Cross.

The last 8 years have seen record heat worldwide. The Gulf of Mexico is currently at a record heat of around 90 degrees. Increasing heat is expected for the next 30 years, at least, and hurricanes will continue to be bigger and stronger with more rain and flooding like hurricane Ian. Florida is talking about rebuilding the damaged coastal areas, but that is a big mistake. Florida should stop all new building or rebuilding within one mile of the water line. This is something Oregon did years ago. I assume and fear that Florida will not be so logical and that KILLER HURRICANES like Ian will continue into the future, like next year!

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2147898)

Would that be the same calamity the Al Gore prediction that he made on Dec. 14, 2008, stating that the arctic would be completely ice-free by 2014?

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2148300)

So, they glaciers that receded, leaving"The Bread Basket", which feeds the world, was a bad thing?

Killer Hurricanes? There are plenty of severe hurricanes every year. They just wander around the Atlantic and don't make landfall...

Sadly, we had a large one that did...

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148303)

Last I heard, the Arctic is pretty much ice-free. The US and Russia are competing for the oil and minerals there. Polar bears are floating on tiny islands of ice and having problems adapting to the Global Warming changes. By 2040 Glacier National Park will be renamed Devoid of Ice National Park. All that ice melting in the Arctic means greater ocean rise, which means more problems for South Florida and coastal Florida. The Gulf of Mexico has record-high water temperatures, which provided the rain and water for HURRICANE Ian to flood much of the Fort Meyers coastal areas as well as south-central Florida. Prepare for more IANs for the next 30 years. People thinking of moving to Florida had better consider Georgia, Tennessee, and the Carolinas instead.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148303)

Last I heard, the Arctic is pretty much ice-free. The US and Russia are competing for the oil and minerals there. Polar bears are floating on tiny islands of ice and having problems adapting to the Global Warming changes. By 2040 Glacier National Park will be renamed Devoid of Ice National Park. All that ice melting in the Arctic means greater ocean rise, which means more problems for South Florida and coastal Florida. The Gulf of Mexico has record-high water temperatures, which provided the rain and water for HURRICANE Ian to flood much of the Fort Meyers coastal areas as well as south-central Florida. Prepare for more IANs for the next 30 years. People thinking of moving to Florida had better consider Georgia, Tennessee, and the Carolinas instead.

Originally Posted by sounding (Post 2147917)

Regarding "man made hurricanes" ... if one believes increasing "man-made" CO2 is causing climate change, then must also believe that increasing CO2 is causing hurricanes and tornadoes to decrease in strength and intensity.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2147927)

That's like saying "if you believe in Santa Claus, you must also believe in the Easter Bunny"

Originally Posted by Badger 2006 (Post 2147969)

Dr Anthony Fauci / Real Science or agenda? You know the difference?

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2148295)

You mean like the polar ice caps would all be gone by 2010?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Posting the same misinformation 100 times does not make it valid.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148328)

I stand corrected. So embarrassing! You ARE right. I changed it to 2250. I need to proofread my posts.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148314)

We just saw with hurricane IAN that hurricanes were INCREASING in intensity. There are estimates that IAN caused 100 billion dollars worth of damage. That was because of record Gulf water temperatures. Most scientists are in agreement that MAN is causing all the CHANGES to the climate around the world. Glaciers are disappearing. There are pictures that prove that.

People like to shoot down the messenger, Al Gore who did NOT say that the " sky is falling", but rather that the sky was filled with too much CO2. Today all the proof shows that Mr. Gore was right and that Gore-e-ness is predicted for the earth's future. In about 15 years there will be ZERO deniers of Global Climate Change. In 80 years vast areas of Africa and Asia will be UNINHABITABLE.

Florida is VERY susceptible to the worse effects of Climate Change. And will see more killer hurricanes like IAN next year. And many people say that it will take 5 years to rebuild from IAN. What will that mean when a NEW IAN hits next year and in 2024 and on and on? Scientists are NOT predicting Global Cooling in the next 30 years, just the opposite. All I see in Florida today is an attempt to ignore Climate ravaging and destruction......good luck with that !

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148314)

We just saw with hurricane IAN that hurricanes were INCREASING in intensity. There are estimates that IAN caused 100 billion dollars worth of damage. That was because of record Gulf water temperatures. Most scientists are in agreement that MAN is causing all the CHANGES to the climate around the world. Glaciers are disappearing. There are pictures that prove that.

People like to shoot down the messenger, Al Gore who did NOT say that the " sky is falling", but rather that the sky was filled with too much CO2. Today all the proof shows that Mr. Gore was right and that Gore-e-ness is predicted for the earth's future. In about 15 years there will be ZERO deniers of Global Climate Change. In 80 years vast areas of Africa and Asia will be UNINHABITABLE.

Florida is VERY susceptible to the worse effects of Climate Change. And will see more killer hurricanes like IAN next year. And many people say that it will take 5 years to rebuild from IAN. What will that mean when a NEW IAN hits next year and in 2024 and on and on? Scientists are NOT predicting Global Cooling in the next 30 years, just the opposite. All I see in Florida today is an attempt to ignore Climate ravaging and destruction......good luck with that !

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148316)

Speaking of "Bunnies" and other furry mammals, fish, birds, and reptiles. The total worldwide population of those animals has decreased by 68% since 1970. To me 1970 onward seems suspiciously like a period of great human population growth. Florida increased from about 9 million people to 30 million people. Also, the time when scientists were beginning to talk about humans causing Climate Change. The coral reefs worldwide started dying. And the icing on the cake is this years hurricane IAN. Ma man.......IAN.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2148648)

Florida has just over 21 million people, not 30 million.

It is exaggerations like that, that destroy the credibility of the argument being made.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2148648)

Florida has just over 21 million people, not 30 million.

It is exaggerations like that, that destroy the credibility of the argument being made.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148675)

I admit that I just asked a friend who said 30 million. But if you took 21 million and added in the Illegal aliens, you would be several million higher.

Originally Posted by sounding (Post 2148357)

What you describe is NOT supported by data. But let's look at each claim one at a time ... please show me a graph which shows hurricane intensity is increasing.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148703)

OK not too challenging......all I had to do was Google increased hurricane activity. And I found ......James P. Kossin, a researcher for the US National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration used satellite images from 1980 to determine that WARMING has increased the intensity of hurricanes by 8% per decade.
........Kerry Emanuel, a hurricane expert at MIT agrees with Mr. Kossin's findings.
.......There were many other expert statements on this issue.

It is only intuitively logical that if Globally the last 8 years have had the highest recorded temperatures in that kind of scientific recordings .......that hurricanes would increase in INTENSITY. We know that recently the Gulf reached record temperatures of around 90 degrees. If global temps were to get cooler for the next 8 years, then one might expect hurricane intensity to drop down. But that is not what is predicted to happen.
.........Basically, I am only a messenger, relaying what I read and see on TV.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2148710)

I agree with one thing-----this isn't too challenging.
Unfortunately, the climate change advocates just don't get it, they just go on and on repeating the same fallacious arguments.
So, here's one employing the same logic----today and tomorrow are the coldest Oct 19th and 20th in the last 8 years---so therefore we must be heading into an imminent ice age
Let's spend $100 trillion on parkas and snowshoes :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148703)

OK not too challenging......all I had to do was Google increased hurricane activity. And I found ......James P. Kossin, a researcher for the US National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration used satellite images from 1980 to determine that WARMING has increased the intensity of hurricanes by 8% per decade.
........Kerry Emanuel, a hurricane expert at MIT agrees with Mr. Kossin's findings.
.......There were many other expert statements on this issue.

It is only intuitively logical that if Globally the last 8 years have had the highest recorded temperatures in that kind of scientific recordings .......that hurricanes would increase in INTENSITY. We know that recently the Gulf reached record temperatures of around 90 degrees. If global temps were to get cooler for the next 8 years, then one might expect hurricane intensity to drop down. But that is not what is predicted to happen.
.........Basically, I am only a messenger, relaying what I read and see on TV.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2148703)

OK not too challenging......all I had to do was Google increased hurricane activity. And I found ......James P. Kossin, a researcher for the US National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration used satellite images from 1980 to determine that WARMING has increased the intensity of hurricanes by 8% per decade.
........Kerry Emanuel, a hurricane expert at MIT agrees with Mr. Kossin's findings.
.......There were many other expert statements on this issue.

It is only intuitively logical that if Globally the last 8 years have had the highest recorded temperatures in that kind of scientific recordings .......that hurricanes would increase in INTENSITY. We know that recently the Gulf reached record temperatures of around 90 degrees. If global temps were to get cooler for the next 8 years, then one might expect hurricane intensity to drop down. But that is not what is predicted to happen.
.........Basically, I am only a messenger, relaying what I read and see on TV.