[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by rsmurano

Such garbage, the Santa Ana winds are not caused by climate change and Santa Ana winds have nothing to do with Santa Ana, California. Our house burned down along with 220 others in Santa Barbara due to Santa Ana winds almost 50 years ago. Back then, the fools were calling it global warming, or the hole in the ozone layer, or some other catchy phrase they tried to pull over us.
People (California leadership, homeowners) have to take responsibility for these fires, for example, the idiotic leadership has to implement standards in building construction, like no cedar roofs, no tall trees close to the house and creating fire breaks and implementing forest management.
But, all the California leadership can do is blame everyone else. These fires are right next to the ocean, salt water that would extinguish the flames easier, and nothing is happening. We were in another fire in another state and we had 50 helicopters with buckets dipping their buckets in our lake and dumping it on the fires. Not 1 helicopter was issued to do that in these California fires.
Maui, same thing happened. Ignorant leadership.

Well, then why is it that every day of every hour recently, I have seen helicopters dropping water and fire retardant out of buckets or some container?????

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Cuervo

This might sound heartless, but we all understand this risk we take when we decide where we want to live. I've chosen to live here in Florida with the knowledge that I could find myself homeless one day due to a hurricane. The residents of California have to be aware they are living under a triple threat, Fire, Earthquakes, and Mudslides. Yet they have decided to live there anyway.

Now is climate change adding to the severity of the fires in California. Believer in climate change will say yes and deniers will say no. I can't give you an answer, but I do know in my lifetime the climate has been changing. Now I have two questions, is man responsible for the present change in the climate and even if he is not, is there something that we can do to reverse it. If not for us, for our grandchildren.

"something we can do" .........I must have written 50 posts saying that buying Electric vehicles and bikes are the MAIN thing that people can do. Increased populations driving gasoline vehicles worldwide are the problem. The problem is so bad that the US government should pay 80% of a new Electric vehicle, but that won't happen. Because it is so much easier to ignore the problem and the OIL and GAS industry makes MEGA PROFITS.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by defrey12

If ANYONE believes this, come on over…I’ve got a bridge for sale. THEY are really grasping at straws here. I watched my childhood home burn last week! I can tell you with CERTAINTY that the SA Winds existed in the sixties…as I’m sure they have for eons. Long before the idiots started screaming that we somehow caused it. Yes, the earth too has been warming for eons…LONG before the internal combustion engine. Proof that it’s not us.

The world has 8.2 Billion people in it today. There were much fewer in the 1960s. And MANY fewer automobiles and people burning Coal worldwide.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

I looked it up once for you, but you just gave me another unrealistic red herrington chase. You don't seem to want the truth. You just want to win the debate. So, how much CO2, man-made of course, atoms per billion would actually make a difference. Please show your calculations and sources of information used in said calculations.

No, I don't expect you to do it. You couldn't. Maybe, though, you see how ridiculous your recurring CO2 demand is.

Not as ridiculous as the non-stop climate-change scare-mongering in the media. But again, you aren't able to say how much man-made CO2 warmed the earth in 2024.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Boomer

I often have found the Civil Discourse Club to be nearing SRO and people have to be turned away because of room capacity. I attended what I think might have been their very first meeting, seems like it was in 2007, not sure. Anyway, we were renting at that time and the clubs were all listed in the paper.

I did not have my glasses on when I read about the (brand new at the time) Civil Discourse Club and, at first, I thought it said the Civil Disobedience Club. I have been interested in some of their speakers and sometimes not interested. But why mock the meetings of those who might, on occasion, think differently. (Rhetorical Question, thus no question mark at the end.)

Btw, I have an old friend whose house in Malibu is now a pile of ashes and another person I know has had to evacuate from a different one of those fires.

I am not an expert on climate, but I know hogwash when I see it. Many of those houses are built of wood -- and there you have plenty of kindling. The force of those winds is creating a hellscape. That old routine about vegetation is a monumental exaggeration, spreading, not unlike wildfire, just because narrowly informed people have decided to judge an entire state of lives -- and lives lost.

The bravery of those firefighters is amazing. There are no words to express my great respect for what they are doing for others. In my opinion, firefighters are the true definition of the word awesome. (And firefighters go into action without stopping to ask if the victims of the fire think like them.)

I do not pretend to understand the science of what is going on, but Mother Nature is certainly pizzed off and has been for a while.

But what I do understand is the very clear picture I am getting from the words of those who are coming through as gloating. Are people actually dancing on the ashes of other people's lives just because they do not like the State of California. What have we come to..........

Boomer

- - - -

Originally Posted by SaucyJim

You do know that there is no actual conscious entity named Mother Nature, right? Emotions cannot be attributed to euphemistic terms for the natural world.

Good afternoon, Saucy Jim. I must address your lifting my words out of context when you quoted only my next-to-last paragraph from what is now post #13 in this thread. That was an odd and disingenuous thing to do to my original post, where I was not arguing climate change, but was reacting to the hateful things I am seeing in the words of people who appear to be taking joy and finding humor in the tragedy of the fires.

C’mon, you chose to lift my figurative, not literal, wording, while ignoring the point of my entire post, quoted at the top of this page.

If you are willing to look again, just skip over the part where I talk about the Civil Discourse Club and pick up at the third paragraph that starts with “Btw,” and there you can read my point — but my guess is you chose to ignore that and were just looking for an opportunity to be snarky, lamely implying that I think Mother Nature is real. . .

BUT, ya know, I did see her when she did a commercial for Chiffon margarine a long time ago. Her only line was, “It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature.” So! There she was. Right there on that television screen, albeit a small one. And aren’t we supposed to believe everything we see on a screen we watch and then behave accordingly while quoting a mindless mantra, abdicating our own critical thinking skills. Some people sure do just that.

The post I was responding to is now gone, but that post was a bitter mocking of the people who are losing everything in this fire. That post and a couple of others, gone now, too, caused me to speak up — which is what I did.

The lack of caring about others has been strategically cultivated for the gain of power. That type of cultivating has been a part of divide-and- conquer world history forever, but this century’s glut of media opportunities has made it so easy to turn people against each other.

People I have known to be kind souls are now falling for this hateful stuff. Why some are so susceptible to manipulation that drives them to take joy in the tragedy of other Americans is a mystery to me.

Anyway, please do not take my words out of context and then twist them to whatever it is you need. But if you want to argue my point about the inhumanity/dehumanizing we are seeing now in our purposely divided America, well then……..

Boomer

PS: Jon Stewart made the same point last night — but with biting sarcasm, insighful ox-goring. Watch it if you dare.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Cuervo

I think to sit on the sideline and do nothing if man has a chance to reverse the cycle of climate change would be a failure. In the past 50 years we've gone from land lines to cell phone, we've gone from earth bound to space. With the aid of A.I. there might be a solution of how to control the climate.

A.I needs MAGA-GOOBS of energy. So, A.I. MAY help push forward knowledge, but at a cost of huge wasted energy. Maybe nuclear energy will improve (they are getting smaller) and provide so much energy that China will not need to burn so much coal. And like California, the US will require all automobiles to be Electric after some (?) year. We can only hope.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by sounding

In other words, you don't know the answer.

And you do?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by sounding

"Faster" is a subjective opinion. Do you have any supporting data -- like how much did "man-made" CO2 warm the earth in 2023 for example?

"Climate change" is not synonymous with "global warming" or "man-made CO2." It's like asking if the reason flowers grow in flower beds is because people buy fertilizer.

If we hadn't polluted the air. If we hadn't cut down forests. If we hadn't used the land for toxic waste. If we hadn't drilled thousands of miles worth of holes in the planet. If we hadn't replaced pristine natural reserves with skyscrapers and parking lots and commercial areas. If we hadn't dumped garbage in our water sources...

then the climate change would have still happened, but not as quickly. Glaciers melt. That's a natural part of climate change. But they're melting quicker now, than they have ever in the current incarnation of the existence of humans as homo sapien sapien.

The Age of Agriculture created pockets of needy soil that hadn't previously existed, which required water, which meant depleting local water sources, which meant needing to create chemical methods of growing to preserve water, which then attracted more pests, which needed more pesticide, which polluted the air, water, and land, which killed animals, which caused harm to the ecosystem and food chain, which led to dead critters, which led to decay, which composts and becomes heated, which seeps into water sources, which erodes the oceans, and so on and so forth.

The Bronze Age contributed its own death punch to the planet. Didn't kill it, but gave it a shake. The Iron Age did as well.

Throughout human history, we have continued to leech from the planet that sustains us, use it up, and burn it, pollute it, evaporate it, or otherwise consume it. Climate change is NOT the result of that, but it is AFFECTED by that.

You don't have to like it. And we can't stop it. Even if we were to slow it down /now/ we would likely not see the results of that slow-down in our lifetime, or our grandchildren's lifetimes.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Except for all the man made pollution going into the atmosphere for the last 150 years or so.

Yes. Conveniently left out of the dialog.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Same tired silly question. The data is there.
If you (humans) add fuel to a cars engine it will go faster. fact. How much faster depends on many factors, like make and model, quality of fuel, fuel mixture, load, resistance, etc. Rather than try to quiet the statement by focusing on one fluctuating element of the fuel mixture, why not engage in more constructive dialog about what might help slow the rate of warming? Global warming/climate change, once vehemently denied, is now openly accepted. One step to go is acknowledgement that human activities have played a part.

If you compare the graphs of World Population in the last 50 years with a graph of Global Warming over the same time period, you can see both rise in the last 10 years. That just about explains it all.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by PersonOfInterest

Maybe the Wind Gusts are keeping them from providing Air Support. They have used air support including super tankers in the past, but not during high winds.

They had a "super scooper" plane from Canada deployed over one of the fires, but someone idiot who wanted their 15 minutes of fame on TikTok got the genius idea of flying their drone over the area. The drone caused damage to the plane and it had to be grounded.

The stupidity of my fellow humans never ceases to amaze me.

[Nana2Teddy]

Originally Posted by Boomer

I often have found the Civil Discourse Club to be nearing SRO and people have to be turned away because of room capacity. I attended what I think might have been their very first meeting, seems like it was in 2007, not sure. Anyway, we were renting at that time and the clubs were all listed in the paper.

I did not have my glasses on when I read about the (brand new at the time) Civil Discourse Club and, at first, I thought it said the Civil Disobedience Club. I have been interested in some of their speakers and sometimes not interested. But why mock the meetings of those who might, on occasion, think differently. (Rhetorical Question, thus no question mark at the end.)

Btw, I have an old friend whose house in Malibu is now a pile of ashes and another person I know has had to evacuate from a different one of those fires.

I am not an expert on climate, but I know hogwash when I see it. Many of those houses are built of wood -- and there you have plenty of kindling. The force of those winds is creating a hellscape. That old routine about vegetation is a monumental exaggeration, spreading, not unlike wildfire, just because narrowly informed people have decided to judge an entire state of lives -- and lives lost.

The bravery of those firefighters is amazing. There are no words to express my great respect for what they are doing for others. In my opinion, firefighters are the true definition of the word awesome. (And firefighters go into action without stopping to ask if the victims of the fire think like them.)

I do not pretend to understand the science of what is going on, but Mother Nature is certainly pizzed off and has been for a while.

But what I do understand is the very clear picture I am getting from the words of those who are coming through as gloating. Are people actually dancing on the ashes of other people's lives just because they do not like the State of California. What have we come to..........

Boomer

Thank you for this! 🤗 My former life was in SoCal, and my whole family (3 adult kids, 3 y/o grandson, sister, brothers, very dear life long friends) all still live there. It’s all so heartbreaking. 💔

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

All true, but I'll add best independent, non-political estimates are that human activity will simply delay the next ice age by about 5,000 years---and that is due to the rise of agriculture in Asia over the last 8,000 years and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST 200 YEARS OF BURNING FOSSIL FUELS.

I think it's a stackable thing. Problem A happened, and then problem B happened, while problems C, D, and E were lining up to happen simultaneously. Then problems F and G happened, and then - the tipping point, was drilling enormous holes in the planet, sucking out the oil and leaving hollow pockets, and burning all of that oil into the atmosphere. I think it would've had little to no effect on climate change if nothing else had also already happened. But because all those other things happened - this was the thing that said "y'know what, Mother Nature is having a big sad. Her tears were glaciers, and now they're breaking off and doing things they weren't supposed to do until the human race evolved again."

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

There certainly have been some huge scientific discoveries that change or scientific knowledge. I do not recall anything about weather that much. Except that they are getting a lot better predicting it.

What about the Ben Franklin and the kite flying experiment that involved lightning and electricity. That had a weather element.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by ithos

That is because any scientist or engineer who doesn't espouse a belief in anthropologic global warming theory will almost never be hired by the federal government or academia. Also many have been fired for not going along with the campaign for global scaremongering. It has been that way for ever since IPCC1990.

WOW! A worldwide mega conspiracy. Now that is "scaremongering". Lions, Tigers and bears, oh my, and now global anti-science conspiracy? Welcome to the Matrix. 😄😁🫠