[tuccillo]

The energy that can be obtained from a 260 watt panel (1000 watt-hours per day) is directly from NREL and is not hypothetical. The watt-hours per mile is based on direct measurements by a poster on this forum and reported ranges by several posters.

The output voltage only has meaning when the amperage is specified. That is why I used energy units. Watts (power) = Volts x Amps. Energy is watts integrated over time or watt-hours.

A controller can maximize the charging of the battery pack but the absolute energy from the panel is limited by the panel technology, the size of the panel, it's orientation to the sun, the latitude, hours of exposure, and the climatic conditions. On average, you won't see more than 1000 watt-hours per day from the panel and probably a lot less unless you leave the cart outside all day. I ignored the inefficiencies in the controller - the energy to the battery pack will probably be 5% less due to inefficiencies in the controller.

Feel free to post your own numbers.

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

tuccillo

Your finding do not agree with ours, your opinion is not based on actual use or measured results they merely hypothetical.

Unlike as we have in real time testing and use over the last few years.

You are welcome to see the cart when they are at the squares.

To debate your numbers here is pointless, especially when you have no idea what the output voltage is nor how the controller was engineered.


.

[tuccillo]

I certainly hope battery technology and costs get better with time. Advances have been slow. It is hard to compete with gasoline in terms of it's "energy density". A gallon of gasoline weight about 6 pounds and will provide about 50 miles of range. It takes about 500 pounds of flooded lead-acid batteries to give you the same range. The gas in my 5+ gallon tank weighs about 30 pounds and provides 250 miles before needing to fill up. Lithium-ion are much better but the cost remains high.

Originally Posted by photo1902

Thanks, Tucillo. I'll stick with my Yamaha Gas Cart. Maybe 10 years from now when Im ready to trade it in/sell it, electric technology will improve.

[RickeyD]

Hybrid anyone ?

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

The watt-hours per mile is based on direct measurements by a poster on this forum

So your entire calculation is based on ONE posters wattage usage.
And that's not hypothetical?

the energy to the battery pack will probably be 5% less due to inefficiencies in the controller.

Nope 99.2%



I have a lot more testing completed than that, on three different carts.

Feel free to post your own numbers.

What ever I state you will disagree, so no point.

You don't even have an electric cart.

[tuccillo]

One poster posted actual power measurements from a kill-a-watt meter. Several others have posted obtained driving ranges with their cart, from which energy per mile is easily obtained. The energy usage for an electric is in the range of 150-200 watt-hours per mile.

99.2 % vs. 95 % doesn't change the conclusions. The difference is essentially in the noise range.

I am stating the actual numbers and you are the one who states they are wrong without posting any of your own numbers. I understand why you are reluctant to do so. The numbers are not very compelling.

The numbers are what the numbers are regardless of what cart I own. I am a scientist and deal with this sort of energy analysis every day at work.

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

So your entire calculation is based on ONE posters wattage usage.
And that's not hypothetical?



Nope 99.2%



I have a lot more testing completed than that, on three different carts.




What ever I state you will disagree, so no point.

You don't even have an electric cart.

[tuccillo]

Probably not - it would not be cheap ;-)

Originally Posted by RickeyD

Hybrid anyone ?

[RickeyD]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

Probably not - it would not be cheap ;-)

Even the Volt knew it had to go hybrid, despite the initial grand plan. Right now and for the foreseeable future, fossil fuels are the only answer. IMHO
With an area the size of Manhattan Island one would be fuelish not to go with internal combustion.

[tuccillo]

Yes. And virtually all goods move via diesel: trains, planes (OK, jet fuel), trucks, and container ships. That is not going to change in my lifetime. When you need to move a lot of mass you need the kind of "energy density" that only fossil fuels can deliver. I think we will continue to see progress with electric and hybrid cars but it will be slow progress, and you still need to generate electricity with mostly fossil fuels.

Originally Posted by RickeyD

Even the Volt knew it had to go hybrid, despite the initial grand plan. Right now and for the foreseeable future, fossil fuels are the only answer. IMHO
With an area the size of Manhattan Island one would be fuelish not to go with internal combustion.

[RickeyD]

Although, all NYC Manhattan buses run on natural gas. Still diesel, still fossil but much cleaner. No reason why a Yami engine can't do the same thing.

[tuccillo]

I wish Honda would get into the gas cart business. They are fundamentally an engine maker and I suspect they could engineer a golf cart that could exceed the 50 mpg I currently get. The market, however, is a bit crowded.

Originally Posted by RickeyD

Although, all NYC Manhattan buses run on natural gas. Still diesel, still fossil but much cleaner. No reason why a Yami engine can't do the same thing.

[RickeyD]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

I wish Honda would get into the gas cart business. They are fundamentally an engine maker and I suspect they could engineer a golf cart that could exceed the 50 mpg I currently get. The market, however, is a bit crowded.

The number one outboard engine is Yamaha. Then Mercury, Evinrude. I do like Honda, but I think that all the makers just aren't trying hard enough with the cart engines. Trying to keep costs down I suppose. Let's face it, they sound like a lawnmower and smell worse. Also, putting FI on a cart engine is just lipstick on a pig. Big waste of engineering.

[tuccillo]

The introduction of fuel injection was an improvement but it was an incremental improvement. I suspect the manufacturers are more driven to continue with their proven, bullet-proof designs as fleet sales to golf courses (where they live a hard life) are the main business. Our cart doesn't have a smell and is quiet at cruising speed. It is a bit louder during acceleration.

Originally Posted by RickeyD

The number one outboard engine is Yamaha. Then Mercury, Evinrude. I do like Honda, but I think that all the makers just aren't trying hard enough with the cart engines. Trying to keep costs down I suppose. Let's face it, they sound like a lawnmower and smell worse.

[JerryLBell]

We'll be looking to get a cart when we move to our house in The Villages next year. I would love to get a quiet, non-smelly electric cart. However, every time I've visited The Villages it seems like 90% or more of the carts I see are gas and 90% or more of them are Yamahas. It makes me think that the majority of folks have bought gas carts (and Yamaha carts) for a reason. For resale value alone, I feel I really have to give Yamaha gas carts are serious look. Since I'm not big on working with gas engines (or electric motors and batteries for that matter - I'm a software guy, not a hardware guy), I'll probably get a new cart with a warranty and take advantage of the improvements made on newer carts, including the "less smelly, better mileage" newer gas carts.

The main add-ons I'm looking for in a cart are 3-point seat belts and side lighting. I talked to a salesman and he mentioned the lighting as an option and I didn't really see the point. That night I was sitting on a bench outside a store in one of the town squares and notice that the carts without side lighting kind of disappeared as they went by. Those with lighting were hard to miss. And if I drive at night, I really do want my cart to be hard to miss, visually.

The wife is moderately interested in a more enclosed cart. I've seen sliding and hinged doors and have wondered if these would be insanely hot in the summer as we'll be full-timers, not snowbirds. Does anybody have any advice on cart enclosures? Are they wonderful in the winter and unbearable in the summer or are they wonderful year-round or are they kind of useless (since most people don't seem to bother with them)?

[JoMar]

There was a time when gas was probably necessary and many of those carts are still out there. People also did less shopping off the reservation so The Villages golf carts got the bulk of the business and they sold Yamaha. If you spend time south of 466A you will find a bunch of electrics of all makes. I have an electric that I purchased off site and wanted to have something checked. I took it to The Villages Golf Carts and they advised they service everything and they took care of my concerns. I do not subscribe to the theory that one type of cart is better than another, only that your personal requirements will dictate what you buy. Everyone here has a bias and will try and convince you that their position is the right choice. There are plenty of resources available to provide un-biased information....got to love the internet.

On the subject of enclosures I am not a fan of solid enclosures. I enjoy having an open cart and enjoying the fresh air. The solid enclosures take a lot of that away and the amount of time you will need them in a year is minimal, yet they are there all the time. The sunbrella gives you you both options and yes, it does mean you might have to take 5 minutes to roll them up when you don't need them. I would suggest getting the sunbrella and if you it doesn't work then you can add solids. If you put on solids first and then find you want to change it's both harder and more expensive to go that route.

[JerryLBell]

Originally Posted by JoMar

On the subject of enclosures I am not a fan of solid enclosures. I enjoy having an open cart and enjoying the fresh air. The solid enclosures take a lot of that away and the amount of time you will need them in a year is minimal, yet they are there all the time. The sunbrella gives you you both options and yes, it does mean you might have to take 5 minutes to roll them up when you don't need them. I would suggest getting the sunbrella and if you it doesn't work then you can add solids. If you put on solids first and then find you want to change it's both harder and more expensive to go that route.

Thanks for the well-stated and well-thought-out opinion on enclosures! What you say makes a lot of sense to me!