[UpNorth]

Originally Posted by wamley

We played Hemingway to Kilimanjaro yesterday and it's interesting how many greens they roll the little grass there is into the mud on the greens. Makes for a very unpredictable putt speed from green to green at least. Tough to pay $74 for these conditions and use my own golf cart too. Easily equals over $100pp on a private course that have great greens.

Played a couple of well designed championship courses just outside The Villages recently. Good conditions, with 18 amazing, healthy greens on each that would put any Villages championship course to shame. Paid $26 - $29 per round, cart included.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Palmer is a disaster, especially considering the both Laurel & Riley Grove have been "renovated" over the last 18 months.

Part of the issue, is supposedly the different water withdrawal permits. North of 466 (Glenview/OBH/Lopez) are operating under a different permit, that allows them to use more water.

In some respects, that's a red herring. Water isn't the only thing that makes a golf course green. I've managed golf courses under strict water withdrawal provisions and it simply means you have to use other methods to keep your golf course is good condition (read that, as more expensive measures).

Those that suggest it's "just the winter months" are again, making excuses. There's nothing much different about this winter, than any other winter. Golf courses are designed to operate in the wide variety of weather they're likely to expect, given the climate they're located in.

Any idiot can manage turf conditions, with unlimited water availability, but unlimited water usage is a vestige of the old days. Any dope can manage a golf course conditions, when the weather is perfect for growing. When you hire amateurs to manage your turf, you get what's going on in TV right now. When you have a captive audience who will pay for mud greens, why spend the money to hire professionals?

Hummm, sounds like you might be getting very close (too close ?) to the REAL reasons concerning conditions, 10, 15, years ago, sure there have always been a few people that are never satisfied, but in the last, say, 10 years, the grips and complaints have grown exponentially. Money must come into it there somehow ? Perhaps the continuous increase in "amenity fees" just can't keep up with maintenance, or possible judicious use of available funds is not happening ? But, "somthin' wrong there somewhere"

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

Hummm, sounds like you might be getting very close (too close ?) to the REAL reasons concerning conditions, 10, 15, years ago, sure there have always been a few people that are never satisfied, but in the last, say, 10 years, the grips and complaints have grown exponentially. Money must come into it there somehow ? Perhaps the continuous increase in "amenity fees" just can't keep up with maintenance, or possible judicious use of available funds is not happening ? But, "somthin' wrong there somewhere"

Championship courses don't get a penny from amenity fees. But you may have hit the nail on the head---money. Probably that and subcontracting to inept maintenance companies.

[bdeminico]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Palmer is a disaster, especially considering the both Laurel & Riley Grove have been "renovated" over the last 18 months.

Part of the issue, is supposedly the different water withdrawal permits. North of 466 (Glenview/OBH/Lopez) are operating under a different permit, that allows them to use more water.

In some respects, that's a red herring. Water isn't the only thing that makes a golf course green. I've managed golf courses under strict water withdrawal provisions and it simply means you have to use other methods to keep your golf course is good condition (read that, as more expensive measures).

Those that suggest it's "just the winter months" are again, making excuses. There's nothing much different about this winter, than any other winter. Golf courses are designed to operate in the wide variety of weather they're likely to expect, given the climate they're located in.

Any idiot can manage turf conditions, with unlimited water availability, but unlimited water usage is a vestige of the old days. Any dope can manage a golf course conditions, when the weather is perfect for growing. When you hire amateurs to manage your turf, you get what's going on in TV right now. When you have a captive audience who will pay for mud greens, why spend the money to hire professionals?

Pretty strong words you use. I agree the course's greens are in poor condition, but my question to you is, were you the Golf Course Manager or the USGA certified Golf Course Superintendent? If you answered yes to the Superintendent, than you must be right. If you were the Manager, you should do more homework before calling people idiots or dopes. There is WAY MORE to it besides water.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Any idiot can manage turf conditions, with unlimited water availability, but unlimited water usage is a vestige of the old days. Any dope can manage a golf course conditions, when the weather is perfect for growing. When you hire amateurs to manage your turf, you get what's going on in TV right now. When you have a captive audience who will pay for mud greens, why spend the money to hire professionals?

Originally Posted by bdeminico

Pretty strong words you use. I agree the course's greens are in poor condition, but my question to you is, were you the Golf Course Manager or the USGA certified Golf Course Superintendent? If you answered yes to the Superintendent, than you must be right. If you were the Manager, you should do more homework before calling people idiots or dopes. There is WAY MORE to it besides water.

Which is exactly what I said. There's way more to it, than simply water. There are ways to deal with less than optimal water availability conditions.

The majority of Villages Championship Courses, are in abysmal condition. One need only play GlenView or TDS (& possibly Lopez, but I don't play it) to see the difference in turf management practices from course to course.

Same weather everywhere. The 2 variables are water availability and competency of staff and/or budget.

Look at the issues logically. The conditions at the courses other than GlenView & TDS, have deteriorate every year I've been here and according to most posters, conditions have been declining for at least the last 5-6 years. The weather hasn't significantly changed over the last 5-10 years, so what's left to blame it on?

Turf management practices is the only thing I can think of. One could blame the deterioration of conditions on "increased play", but inherent with increased play, is increased revenue. You get more play, you get more money to maintain the turf ... unless of course, you take all that increased revenue as profits and don't increase your turf maintenance budget.

[vinnytalk]

Originally Posted by clekr

Played Kenya/Hemingway today. I can't decide if they plan to bring in bulldozers or goats. They have obviously stop maintaining it to any golf course standard.

The same with almost every couse here in the Villages, whoever is in charge should be fired , they have no knowledge of maintaining golf courses, the quality of the landscapers are deplorable.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by waynet

Evans Praire is also in awful condition. Both of the groups I play with took it off of our rotation. I feel bad for the bartenders and wait staff. After golf we tend to spend a good amount of money and tip very well. Maybe if all the large groups also took evans off their rotation someone would take notice

To make matters worse, the restaurants are separate businesses and bet they cannot exert any pressure on the owners of the golf course

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

Money must come into it there somehow ? Perhaps the continuous increase in "amenity fees"

Amenity Fees have nothing to do with Championship Courses. They are owner by and invested by the developer.

Executives, Yes.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by UpNorth

Played a couple of well designed championship courses just outside The Villages recently. Good conditions, with 18 amazing, healthy greens on each that would put any Villages championship course to shame. Paid $26 - $29 per round, cart included.

A lot of people would like to know which courses you are referring to. Have seen < $40 but not $26-29 a round.

[miclray]

All of these negative comments about multiple course conditions really has me stepping back now on considering buying something in TV. Golf is one of the main reasons I was even thinking about buying there. $74 to play a round of golf on a course that isn’t pristine there is ridiculous. Someone should warn ALL potential buyers of TV’s golf course(s) situation. I’m so glad on got in this site! Might have saved me from making a HUGE financial and life mistake! I just assumed everything inside TV would be absolutely top notch! Unbelievable. Thank you!

[Steve]

Originally Posted by miclray

All of these negative comments about multiple course conditions really has me stepping back now on considering buying something in TV. Golf is one of the main reasons I was even thinking about buying there. $74 to play a round of golf on a course that isn’t pristine there is ridiculous. Someone should warn ALL potential buyers of TV’s golf course(s) situation. I’m so glad on got in this site! Might have saved me from making a HUGE financial and life mistake! I just assumed everything inside TV would be absolutely top notch! Unbelievable. Thank you!

All of these negative comments about the condition of The Villages courses this winter just reinforces my group's decision to bypass them completely and play outside TV for less than half the price. With so many options such as Golf Now and GroupGolfer there are a number of ways to play inexpensive golf at courses that are very different from the cookie cutter designs you get here. During the summer we MAY play a Villages course once a week and outside TV the other two days we play. But with the constant increase in greens fees which has no end in sight we may drop that one day, as well.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by miclray

All of these negative comments about multiple course conditions really has me stepping back now on considering buying something in TV. Golf is one of the main reasons I was even thinking about buying there. $74 to play a round of golf on a course that isn’t pristine there is ridiculous. Someone should warn ALL potential buyers of TV’s golf course(s) situation. I’m so glad on got in this site! Might have saved me from making a HUGE financial and life mistake! I just assumed everything inside TV would be absolutely top notch! Unbelievable. Thank you!

The advantage, is convenience .... you can drive your own cart to all the courses and there are plenty of courses to choose from.

Conditions are not good. "Pristine" would be an over-statement of gargantuan proportions.

[mrf0151]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Comparing a Private Country Club to a golf course in The Villages, is like comparing The Kansas City Chiefs, to a high school football team.

& if you play golf 2-3 times per week, your per round cost at most country clubs, would be less than you'd pay to play TV "Championship" courses.

Okay then why is it that we can play outside The Villages on many courses that charge much less, and those course conditions are much better than Villages courses?

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Comparing a Private Country Club to a golf course in The Villages, is like comparing The Kansas City Chiefs, to a high school football team.

& if you play golf 2-3 times per week, your per round cost at most country clubs, would be less than you'd pay to play TV "Championship" courses.

Originally Posted by mrf0151

Okay then why is it that we can play outside The Villages on many courses that charge much less, and those course conditions are much better than Villages courses?

I fail to see the nexus, but "outside the Villages" golf courses, don't enjoy a the near monopoly Village courses have. Residents are a captive audience ... the convenience of driving your cart to the golf course.

[sowilts]

Originally Posted by John Mayes

That’s pretty dismissive. The course gets lots of participants from all parts of TV’s. I get that you don’t care for the course but that opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by most.

Southern Oaks is full most of the time. Still have the best greens. Front nine is different than the back nine. Br careful crossing the street. Barriers are too far away. Don’t know why there is no tunnel access.