[Steve]

Originally Posted by Radamo

I totally agree with this. Why do we "require" villagers to watch a video and take a course before they can step on a pickleball court. But we do not require them to attend Good Golf class before they get golf privileges. It makes no sense.

I know a lot of people who play or have played pickleball. But I've never heard of one having to take a "required course".

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Played Palmer Cherry to Laurel yesterday, the first day LV was open after months of renovation. Conditions were great, fairways had decent grass, greens were running about 10-10 1/2, bunkers were great. However, turned to LV at 11:20 and noticed the following:

15+ unrepaired ball marks on each green
Dozens of divots not filled in
Half the bunkers with unraked footprints
The edges of the cups were raggedy.

At most 22 foursomes came before us

So, unfortunately, I'll give it 3 weeks, maybe less, before the conditions deteriorate to the level of the rest of our courses.

So the question is: When will our golfers learn that taking care of the course is everyone's responsibility, that there is no "entitled" superclass that need not rake, fill or repair. And stop sticking your putter in the hole to retrieve the ball or yanking the flagstick out with the ball in the cup. I wish we had cameras on every hole and institute a system of fines or revocation of golfing privileges for the offenders.

As you stated LV was great after being shut down for months. From your past experience you predict in 3 weeks it will be back to shambles. The blame you put on the golfers - I don't disagree. However part of the problem maybe the amount of play being the most of any courses in the world and not enough down time to recuperate. You will never get 100% of golfers to take the responsibility to the level of your expectations. Simply too many. Ask yourself do all people drive the speed limit? Ironically speed limits are the law not etiquette.


Solution - RAISE THE RATES to decrease demand. The same philosophy as raising interest rates to combat inflation.

[tommyman]

I have noticed just in the last 2 weeks how the course conditions have deteriorated. Every green with multiple ball marks and/or repaired so poorly they affect a putt. Bunkers not raked, and rakes strewn to poor places to retrieve them. Divots not filled, etc. Part of this is attributable to more play, but everyone of these can be improved and totally fixed if everyone just cleans up after themselves. I am an old caddie and we were taught to leave the bunker better than we found it. I see people all the time walk out of a trap and drag the rake behind them. That is not raking the trap. Just look back and see if you even hit your foot prints. IMO the starters and even the folks that check players in at the pro shop could do a much better job of reinforcing these basic good golf practices by telling every single group, every single time that those are the rules of the course. I am also a big advocate for the 90 degree rule. If we all did that maybe the fairways would be playable for another 30 days into the winter. It takes no more time or energy, just requires a little attention to detail.

[Tomptomp]

Gee wiz. I played Palmer yesterday and the course was in great condition. I teed off at 8:50 and I didn’t see any of the issues to which you refer. The greens, aprons, fairways, and bunkers were perfect.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Age-old problem.

For once, size does not matter:
Handicap doesn't matter.
Investment portfolio doesn't matter.
Green fees don't matter.

It's a lack of pride, respect & responsibility.

Like other posts.............it's expensive, but the courses need to be policed (unfortunately).

There you have it, spot on Dewi.

[Two Bills]

Our local course in UK employs a sniper who is positioned in a high tower overlooking all of the course.
Anyone not repairing pitch marks, divots or not raking sand traps is shot
Only three have died over the last four years, funnily enough all were Americans, and all lived in The Villages!

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Played Palmer Cherry to Laurel yesterday, the first day LV was open after months of renovation. Conditions were great, fairways had decent grass, greens were running about 10-10 1/2, bunkers were great. However, turned to LV at 11:20 and noticed the following:

15+ unrepaired ball marks on each green
Dozens of divots not filled in
Half the bunkers with unraked footprints
The edges of the cups were raggedy.

At most 22 foursomes came before us

So, unfortunately, I'll give it 3 weeks, maybe less, before the conditions deteriorate to the level of the rest of our courses.

So the question is: When will our golfers learn that taking care of the course is everyone's responsibility, that there is no "entitled" superclass that need not rake, fill or repair. And stop sticking your putter in the hole to retrieve the ball or yanking the flagstick out with the ball in the cup. I wish we had cameras on every hole and institute a system of fines or revocation of golfing privileges for the offenders.

Amen brother. I really agree with you especially the last paragraph. I've seen a lot of what you described at many of the executive courses. I've even seen a sand rake that had been ran over and thrown into the bushes by the guilty party. The ambassador was wondering why they were short a rake! The powers to be should have made the Good Golf Class mandatory before people are assigned a way to make tee time reservations but I don't know how much that would help. Some people have absolutely no respect for the amenities we all pay for and share.

[HORNET]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Played Palmer Cherry to Laurel yesterday, the first day LV was open after months of renovation. Conditions were great, fairways had decent grass, greens were running about 10-10 1/2, bunkers were great. However, turned to LV at 11:20 and noticed the following:

15+ unrepaired ball marks on each green
Dozens of divots not filled in
Half the bunkers with unraked footprints
The edges of the cups were raggedy.

At most 22 foursomes came before us

So, unfortunately, I'll give it 3 weeks, maybe less, before the conditions deteriorate to the level of the rest of our courses.

So the question is: When will our golfers learn that taking care of the course is everyone's responsibility, that there is no "entitled" superclass that need not rake, fill or repair. And stop sticking your putter in the hole to retrieve the ball or yanking the flagstick out with the ball in the cup. I wish we had cameras on every hole and institute a system of fines or revocation of golfing privileges for the offenders.

Golfers ( Villagers) used to take pride in The Villages golf courses, used to fix their and other divots on the greens and fairways, now the attitude of new golfers on Championship and/or Executive Course, it’s all about them, let someone else do it.

[dtennent]

Since the starters know if you have paid your annual trail fees, why not charge 2 times the trail fee ( on executive courses) or 50% surcharge ( for championship courses) for those who haven’t attended good golf school? All of our play is tracked by a computer system and this would be a small add on. I would gladly reenroll in good golf school if it helped people to take better care of our courses. Heck, I would gladly have to attend every five years ( with everyone else, of course) if it improved the quality of our courses.

[mpcolonel]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Played Palmer Cherry to Laurel yesterday, the first day LV was open after months of renovation. Conditions were great, fairways had decent grass, greens were running about 10-10 1/2, bunkers were great. However, turned to LV at 11:20 and noticed the following:

15+ unrepaired ball marks on each green
Dozens of divots not filled in
Half the bunkers with unraked footprints
The edges of the cups were raggedy.

At most 22 foursomes came before us

So, unfortunately, I'll give it 3 weeks, maybe less, before the conditions deteriorate to the level of the rest of our courses.

So the question is: When will our golfers learn that taking care of the course is everyone's responsibility, that there is no "entitled" superclass that need not rake, fill or repair. And stop sticking your putter in the hole to retrieve the ball or yanking the flagstick out with the ball in the cup. I wish we had cameras on every hole and institute a system of fines or revocation of golfing privileges for the offenders.

It’s the snow birds that come here and don’t care because they’ll leave in 4/6 months and won’t come back until they have the courses back in good shape. We that live here have to play thru there mess.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Played Palmer Cherry to Laurel yesterday, the first day LV was open after months of renovation. Conditions were great, fairways had decent grass, greens were running about 10-10 1/2, bunkers were great. However, turned to LV at 11:20 and noticed the following:

15+ unrepaired ball marks on each green
Dozens of divots not filled in
Half the bunkers with unraked footprints
The edges of the cups were raggedy.

At most 22 foursomes came before us

So, unfortunately, I'll give it 3 weeks, maybe less, before the conditions deteriorate to the level of the rest of our courses.

So the question is: When will our golfers learn that taking care of the course is everyone's responsibility, that there is no "entitled" superclass that need not rake, fill or repair. And stop sticking your putter in the hole to retrieve the ball or yanking the flagstick out with the ball in the cup. I wish we had cameras on every hole and institute a system of fines or revocation of golfing privileges for the offenders.

I played LV to RG yesterday. I too was amazed at the number of un-repaired ball marks on the greens. I went off LV at 11:35. How many foursomes had been through there? 25? On Hole 1, I fixed 5 ball marks. It didn't improve after the 1st hole.

Considering yesterday was the 1st day it was opened after renovation, I was shocked by the abysmal quality of workmanship. I've been involved with golf course construction and renovation and the quality of the work done on Laurel Valley, should never have been accepted by the ownership.

I think the lack of professionalism by ownership, contributes to the lack of etiquette displayed by the golfers. If ownership doesn't care about quality, why should the players? I'm not saying I agree with that, just opining that's a contributing factor.

The renovation team laid about 3000 sq. ft. of new sod, to the left of the Tee Boxes on the 2nd hole. Looks great. When I got to the 3rd green, the green surrounds were atrocious. Why would they spend money for the "out of play" area next to the 2nd Tee box, yet not repair the area around the green on 3?

I was told that the 2nd green was "flattened". No way. That green is almost exactly the same as it was ... virtually unplayable.

The 5th green should have been flattened in the left rear ... no change.

I did Birdie 9 from the Blues, so I can't find anything to complain about, there.

I agree there's no excuse for not repairing ball marks and raking bunkers, but if ownership doesn't want to set an example, it's hard to enforce a policy of "do as I say, not as I do".

Riley Grove's greens are for the most part, awful. I'm no expert on Bermuda grass, but 4 or 5 holes looked like they have a fungus or disease. I could have lived with that, but when I got to the 7th hole and found there were 5 groups on the hole, I gave up and went home.

I haven't played Palmer since LV closed, as I don't like Cherry Hills. This was my first time back this year and I won't be back, unless I hear that conditions have dramatically changed.

On another note, as usually, Glenview is in excellent condition and TDS is in nearly private course condition. If you were to only consider the "playing areas" (leaving out areas around the paths & non-playing areas), TDS conditions were like you might expect at a moderately priced private club.

I've hear that OB is in great condition. It's a pretty weird golf course, but I might have to give it a try, considering conditions as most of the other courses.

[Yes, I know part of the issue, is GV, OB & TDS are under a different Water Withdrawal Permit and can use more water than the more southern courses.]

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by rustyp

A real country club membership costs mega dollars per year. Live life like a millionaire on a retirement budget. What class of golfer did you expect to be playing here ?

Even at real country clubs, 99% of the people fix ball marks, repair divots and rake traps. Was member of 3 before moving to TV. All 3 most members used the clubs carts and all had signs in them reminding people to rake traps, fix ball marks etc.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Agree, Good thread.
Everyone blames the deteriorating conditions on the maintenance, where really WE can keep the courses nice, especially in the high season

1) I think those playing championships have played more golf and should know better. You’re not paying $50 to play if you’re a beginner or not that good - youll play executive; and have more fun

2) The golfers aren’t even using the rakes, BUT the rakes that are out are 12”; a 20 or 24” rake is much easier to rake and you get a better finished product.

3) The best system that works is loss of golf privilege or loss of access to tee time system for a week or month. I don’t know how that can work here; but technology can help. Upgrade the ID system with RFID tags - or require tags on carts. Rangers don’t need to confront abusers, just be around and see when people don’t rake or fix divots - boom; shut down ID to reserve tee times for a week. Heck, shut down the whole 4 some and it will become self monitoring. Will fix itself in a month.

Regarding #2, TV is the 1st place that I have ever seen the 12" rakes and they do take a lot more time than the larger ones. For me they take 2-3x longer, since a person creates more footprints when using the smaller rake. With a bigger rake it is easier to walk out of the trap and drag the rake behind you to cover your foot prints. Very hard to do with the narrower rake. That being said, agree that some people still do not rake the traps, especially when they see that other earlier players did not rake them

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by mpcolonel

It’s the snow birds that come here and don’t care because they’ll leave in 4/6 months and won’t come back until they have the courses back in good shape. We that live here have to play thru there mess.

BS.

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by mpcolonel

It’s the snow birds that come here and don’t care because they’ll leave in 4/6 months and won’t come back until they have the courses back in good shape. We that live here have to play thru there mess.

I don't feel it's all on the volume of golfers but it's really sad it got to the point it's just as hard to get a tee time as if it was January because of all the course closures come April. I try to avoid blaming the snowbirds but I'm sure they have their share of entitled ones!