[blueash]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

..... Example would be an inherited stock which would have the price of the stock at the date of the death of the individual. Knowing that you can search for the price of the stock on that day, pick the highest of the day.

.....

finance guy

I am sure you know a WHOLE LOT more than I do about finance. I don't sign off as finance guy. But your advice on calculation of basis for inherited stock is per Mr Google wrong, and contrary to what I recalled being told when I dealt with an estate.

The correct technique seems not to pick the highest selling price of the date of death which would raise the basis and lower the gain, but rather you are to take the average of the highest and the lowest cost for the date of death, or if the death was on a holiday, calculate that figure for the open market day before and after the death.

google search using "How to determine a stock's date of death value" has many hits giving this averaging requirement. I found none saying use the biggest number you can find. I did not see any hits to an IRS paper on the issue and perhaps they have not expressed an opinion. But if no opinion why do all the financial websites suggest the same averaging?

to calculate the value of the stock on the date of death, take the average of the highest selling price and the lowest selling price of the stock on that date.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by blueash

I am sure you know a WHOLE LOT more than I do about finance. I don't sign off as finance guy. But your advice on calculation of basis for inherited stock is per Mr Google wrong, and contrary to what I recalled being told when I dealt with an estate.

The correct technique seems not to pick the highest selling price of the date of death which would raise the basis and lower the gain, but rather you are to take the average of the highest and the lowest cost for the date of death, or if the death was on a holiday, calculate that figure for the open market day before and after the death.

google search using "How to determine a stock's date of death value" has many hits giving this averaging requirement. I found none saying use the biggest number you can find. I did not see any hits to an IRS paper on the issue and perhaps they have not expressed an opinion. But if no opinion why do all the financial websites suggest the same averaging?

There are technical rules, and then there is practicality. Given that in most cases, the difference will be a dollar a share or less, the impact on taxes paid / owed will not be significantly questionable for an auditor to flag the issue as an audit issue for the average middle class non professional.

Since the filer is non considered a professional financial licensed and regulated individual, we are not held to the same standard of performance as a brokerage or a CPA, whose license can be at risk. That quote and level of performance is provided to the audience to which the professional and licensed individuals are held. Since the brokerage does not have a cost, its up to the individual.

The more typical scenario is a very long term hold of a dividend reinvested share purchased sale. There are 4 purchases a year with tiny amounts of shares over time, and to further complicate, can be a distribution from an ESOP, which my Wife has, and I have as well. The IRS requires a cost, with the option of various dates. The question is: how accurate will you be for records that may have been lost in the last 40 years. I have exxon stock which i purchased in 1981, dividends reinvested over X years with splits. I will do the best estimate I can if the custodian of the dividend reinvestment program can't provide the cost basis for me.

So here's the essence of my reply: there is always a grey area of what's an acceptable difference in quality between a professional and a non professional. There are differences in personality types for the level of judgmental, Briggs Myers ***J or fourth position, which is presented in the adherence to rules based logic and laws and black and white, binary decision making, as a generalization.

I am not a J, i am a P, or perceiver, and as such, look at all rules as not as absolutes, but as guidelines and if you aren't qualified as a professional you have some lee way in the quality of your work.

And finance is all about the future, and valuations done not based in past accounting, but in the future cash flows and growth projections from today. Totally subjective as the the future is always uncertain. If i signed off as CPA guy, or CFP guy, then i would be licensed and have a different level of care than a non professional.

does that explain the source of my response?
and your MB type must end in J, correct?

[blueash]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

There are technical rules, and then there is practicality. Given that in most cases, the difference will be a dollar a share or less, the impact on taxes paid / owed will not be significantly questionable for an auditor to flag the issue as an audit issue for the average middle class non professional.

Since the filer is non considered a professional financial licensed and regulated individual, we are not held to the same standard of performance as a brokerage or a CPA, whose license can be at risk. That quote and level of performance is provided to the audience to which the professional and licensed individuals are held. Since the brokerage does not have a cost, its up to the individual.

The more typical scenario is a very long term hold of a dividend reinvested share purchased sale. There are 4 purchases a year with tiny amounts of shares over time, and to further complicate, can be a distribution from an ESOP, which my Wife has, and I have as well. The IRS requires a cost, with the option of various dates. The question is: how accurate will you be for records that may have been lost in the last 40 years. I have exxon stock which i purchased in 1981, dividends reinvested over X years with splits. I will do the best estimate I can if the custodian of the dividend reinvestment program can't provide the cost basis for me.

So here's the essence of my reply: there is always a grey area of what's an acceptable difference in quality between a professional and a non professional. There are differences in personality types for the level of judgmental, Briggs Myers ***J or fourth position, which is presented in the adherence to rules based logic and laws and black and white, binary decision making, as a generalization.

I am not a J, i am a P, or perceiver, and as such, look at all rules as not as absolutes, but as guidelines and if you aren't qualified as a professional you have some lee way in the quality of your work.

And finance is all about the future, and valuations done not based in past accounting, but in the future cash flows and growth projections from today. Totally subjective as the the future is always uncertain. If i signed off as CPA guy, or CFP guy, then i would be licensed and have a different level of care than a non professional.

does that explain the source of my response?
and your MB type must end in J, correct?

thank you for admitting you were wrong. You present as a professional here and your audience has just been told that you fudge around the edges and hope you don't get caught. Nonetheless, your advice to use the highest value of the day is wrong and an attempt to cheat the tax man and hope you get away with it.

I have absolutely no idea what the stuff about a J guy or a MB type means. I only came here to correct your wrong advice as "finance guy" If you are not a qualified CPA or tax lawyer maybe you should say so when you tell people how to do their taxes which is what you did in your post about a tax return problem. You even advised us that we should ignore the wash sale information the brokerage house sends us as you believe it is a grey area we can override. Pretty specific suggestion to ignore the experts from someone who now says he's not a professional in the field.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by blueash

thank you for admitting you were wrong. You present as a professional here and your audience has just been told that you fudge around the edges and hope you don't get caught. Nonetheless, your advice to use the highest value of the day is wrong and an attempt to cheat the tax man and hope you get away with it.

I have absolutely no idea what the stuff about a J guy or a MB type means. I only came here to correct your wrong advice as "finance guy" If you are not a qualified CPA or tax lawyer maybe you should say so when you tell people how to do their taxes which is what you did in your post about a tax return problem. You even advised us that we should ignore the wash sale information the brokerage house sends us as you believe it is a grey area we can override. Pretty specific suggestion to ignore the experts from someone who now says he's not a professional in the field.

no problem, its a free web site, you can type away as you wish.

Just because you may not have ever had to discuss the interpretations of an IRS guidelines and then had to apply it to various situations, doesn't mean that there aren't different interpretations of an IRS accounting rule. Those are legitimate debates which accounting professionals have made when preparing taxes, and not all of them are black and white. Yes, that short sales is a legitimate debate concerning what is or isn't a short sale. Doesn't mean that everything is correct when you are filing out your particular situations. I also didn't state that you should, I stated that there are various interpretations by CPAs and tax preparers, and if you need to because that situation applies to you, that is how you address the problem in turbo tax. Just because you can doesn't mean you that are required.

I have not misrepresented my self as a professional tax return preparation guy, I have merely stated what I have done, and if people don't understand the difference between an accountant, and finance, then that is on them not being professionals. I have associated with CPAs, I have worked with CPAs, I have used turbo tax to do many different types of returns, as others have said here. but I never stated I am a CPA. I also end my posts with various "guys" as the voice of the opinion of how is speaking, as hyperbole as to the quality of the post on the internet. I have often stated that this is an internet bbs and its all If you look at this board as 100% factual, then you might look at the world differently than I do.

You might find this interesting, as understanding the different personality types helps overcome the obvious differences in how each individual looks at the world around them. It will help you understand why individuals have different points of view, not necessarily wrong, but different. Your view of the world is yours, but not everyones.

The Myers & Briggs Foundation - Judging or Perceiving

Its why i am in finance and not in accounting, as accounting is the process of putting all numbers into some proper box per the rules of accounting.

not accounting guy

[retiredguy123]

I would just point out that preparing taxes is not a professional job. You don't need to be a CPA, a tax lawyer, or even have a degree, certification, or license to prepare taxes and to charge a fee for doing it. You just need to get an IRS preparer tax ID number. Even a caveman can do it. In fact, I think that most paid tax preparers do not have any professional qualifications related to taxes. I occasionally do taxes, but I don't charge anything because I don't want to sign the tax return, which is required if you are a paid preparer.

[rsmurano]

FYI: you can import your Charles Schwab info into turbo tax, I just did it. You need to go into Schwab.com, under your name, go to security center, and then all the way down, enable 3rd party access for turbo tax. If it’s enabled, disable it, then enable it. That’s what I did. Then I would disable this function after you import your info into turbo tax.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

If the cost is missing from the brokerage account, then you do you best research for the price. Example would be an inherited stock which would have the price of the stock at the date of the death of the individual. Knowing that you can search for the price of the stock on that day, pick the highest of the day.

finance guy

Or you could pick the Alternate Valuation Day to possibly pay less tax. It would depend on when the price of the stock was lower. You would still need to average the highest and lowest prices of record for the stock on whichever day you chose for valuation.

"The executor will have the option of valuing the estate on the date of death, or alternately, on the six-month anniversary of death – the latter is, fittingly, referred to as the “Alternate Valuation Date.”"

From: Estate Building Block: Understanding the Alternate Valuation Date