[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

In response to a Sarah_W post. That was a pretty strange ATTEMPTED analogy. But, I have to admit, it was a GREAT DEFLECTION from the subject and my proposed solution.

My example and solution were no stranger than yours. Do us all a favor and start your own thread on Mass Shootings or whatever you wish. The subject of this thread is the Founding Fathers, not your current lamentations. I personally don't want to see this thread get locked because you can't stay on topic.

[Tvflguy]

I was breezing thru some responses. No offense, but why do some simply HAVE to write a novella? Personally I don’t have the interest, no matter the topic, to spend that time reading all that. Yikes

[Taltarzac725]

Banning guns would wind up like the Prohibition where organized crime kingpins got rich filling the void made.

Trying to keep things shorter.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Most teachers are averse to carrying LETHAL firearms. A flare gun or a rubber bullet shot at an armed intruder could delay his killing of children long enough for some of them to escape and/or the Police show up or a Principal or school guard to get there with a LETHAL lead firing pistol or rifle.
Rubber bullets and flare pistols are NOT a joke - they are better than NOTHING, which most teachers say that they will be carrying ......nothing.
.......And I have talked to a few Police Officers that said that a separate gun loaded with rubber bullets MIGHT be good in certain situations. They were open to the idea. Many Officers are NOT thrilled with a foot chase with a suspected perpetrator and then the decision to shoot them in the back, or not.

Yes, rubber bullets and a flare gun really IS a joke. Rubber bullets are only used in NON-lethal situations such as riot control. NOT/NOT/NOT in mass murder situations. Get it? A flare gun? I really thought you were kidding. Seriously??? A flare gun is worse than a shotgun in a classroom. Do you want the school to burn down? Do you know how hot flares are? Do you even know off hand what chemicals are in the flare? Go ahead and Google it. NO law enforcement officer will tell you that a school teacher should confront a mental case possessing a firearm, with the teacher aiming a gun with a rubber bullet. Wow! If a teacher is willing to defend the children with a gun loaded with rubber bullets, then he/she is willing to fire a REAL firearm with lethal bullets. A teacher is willing to throw themselves down in front of a child to protect them like he/she was one of their own, so I know they would use whatever is available. I am not saying that they should even use a weapon, unless they were comfortable with firearms and trained to carry one legally. I would rather that the school was fortified so that the bad guy could not get in, in the first place. Worrying about the kids after the bad guy is in, is the same as worrying about the horses after the barn is on fire.

[Byte1]

Sorry, answering a diversion was no better than diverting from the subject. The subject that we should be addressing is the Founders and their thoughts regarding the 2nd Amend. And Sarah answered with many quotes from our Founders. I doubt any anti-gun folks will admit the totally blatant evidence as to what was the reasoning behind the Amend, so there will always be diversion from the facts staring them right in the eyes.
Like many have said in the past, the gov should fear the people, not the people should fear the gov. Let's keep it that way.

[Veiragirl]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

https://www.amazon.com/TIME-LIFE-His.../dp/1683304314

The weapons Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin, and others considered as "arms" are far different from the arms of 2022.

So were the people

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I am not perfectly clear on the numbers, but I know for sure that enacting a NEW Amendment is a high (near impossible today) hurdle to get over. It needs something like 75 Senators to approve it. It would be hard to get 75 Senators to agree that the earth is round EVEN.

The United States Constitution is one of the most important documents in the world and the framework of the freest nation in the world. it should be very difficult to amend it. Go here to understand the process: Constitutional Amendment Process | National Archives

It is astounding to me that for the first time in the history of our nation activists are fighting to take away Rights instead of fighting to procure Rights.

[Blueblaze]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The mentally ill are usually the targets of violence and not those who do it.

Yes, they are. Yet another reason to lock them up.

The one thing we can be sure of is, 100% of mass-murder events are perpetrated by lunatics, not law-abiding, self-sufficient citizens.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

My example and solution were no stranger than yours. Do us all a favor and start your own thread on Mass Shootings or whatever you wish. The subject of this thread is the Founding Fathers, not your current lamentations. I personally don't want to see this thread get locked because you can't stay on topic.

The 2nd amendment has to do with guns. All the people posting on this thread are talking about MODERN guns, not flintlock black powder guns - and the implications of modern guns on modern society. I am just drifting within the mainstream of the flow of the waters of this thread. I fail to see how it is that I am some outlier responsible for the terrible things that I am being accused of. I have been nice and polite to everyone commenting on this thread!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Banning guns would wind up like the Prohibition where organized crime kingpins got rich filling the void made.

Trying to keep things shorter.

Personally, I like the idea of citizens owning guns because the small % of people that are burglars can not be sure which homeowner owns them and which do not. I merely, personally, find things like silencers and 30 or 50-round magazines to be unnecessary OVERKILL (no pun intended). Personally, I think that the unlikely chance of the US having a tyrannical government that is so bad that it can't be controlled by votes - and needs a counter-revolution.......to be so SLIM - that I feel confident that I could use a bolt-action rifle to express myself, I don't need a semi-automatic war machine for that.

And if the US were invaded by Russia and/or China, the situation would be more like the "Red Dawn" movie. The high school kids started out with hunting rifles and worked their way up. Any local resistance would start out low-tech. Even the survivalist types that expect a doomsday scenario - the ones that bury guns in their backyard, put in the cheap bolt action military surplus weapons, not the new $ 3,000 AR-15 type rifles.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Yes, rubber bullets and a flare gun really IS a joke. Rubber bullets are only used in NON-lethal situations such as riot control. NOT/NOT/NOT in mass murder situations. Get it? A flare gun? I really thought you were kidding. Seriously??? A flare gun is worse than a shotgun in a classroom. Do you want the school to burn down? Do you know how hot flares are? Do you even know off hand what chemicals are in the flare? Go ahead and Google it. NO law enforcement officer will tell you that a school teacher should confront a mental case possessing a firearm, with the teacher aiming a gun with a rubber bullet. Wow! If a teacher is willing to defend the children with a gun loaded with rubber bullets, then he/she is willing to fire a REAL firearm with lethal bullets. A teacher is willing to throw themselves down in front of a child to protect them like he/she was one of their own, so I know they would use whatever is available. I am not saying that they should even use a weapon, unless they were comfortable with firearms and trained to carry one legally. I would rather that the school was fortified so that the bad guy could not get in, in the first place. Worrying about the kids after the bad guy is in, is the same as worrying about the horses after the barn is on fire.

The teachers and their unions all across America have stated OUTRIGHT that they do NOT want to carry lethal firearms into the classroom. They won't be forced to do that.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Sorry, answering a diversion was no better than diverting from the subject. The subject that we should be addressing is the Founders and their thoughts regarding the 2nd Amend. And Sarah answered with many quotes from our Founders. I doubt any anti-gun folks will admit the totally blatant evidence as to what was the reasoning behind the Amend, so there will always be diversion from the facts staring them right in the eyes.
Like many have said in the past, the gov should fear the people, not the people should fear the gov. Let's keep it that way.

I agree with the last sentence.

[Taltarzac725]

John Locke - Wikipedia

It does seem like the Founding Fathers were influenced a great deal by the writings of John Locke.

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The 2nd amendment has to do with guns. All the people posting on this thread are talking about MODERN guns, not flintlock black powder guns - and the implications of modern guns on modern society. I am just drifting within the mainstream of the flow of the waters of this thread. I fail to see how it is that I am some outlier responsible for the terrible things that I am being accused of. I have been nice and polite to everyone commenting on this thread!

Jim, I'm not saying you aren't nice nor polite. As you noted, the thread is about the 2nd Amendment and the definition of "arms" as the Founding Fathers meant "arms". It is not about mass shootings, school shootings etc. That is the point. Why not start a new thread on your topic. I will happily contribute.

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

The United States Constitution is one of the most important documents in the world and the framework of the freest nation in the world. it should be very difficult to amend it. Go here to understand the process: Constitutional Amendment Process | National Archives

It is astounding to me that for the first time in the history of our nation activists are fighting to take away Rights instead of fighting to procure Rights.

Please try to stay on topic. We are discussing what Arms are, not how to amend the constitution.