[Taltarzac725]

Protests, Insurrection, and the Second Amendment | Brennan Center for Justice

I just do not buy the Founding Fathers would want a bunch of citizens armed with weapons that are meant for the world's battlefields and not for home defense, hunting, and legitimate shooting of targets.

[Taltarzac725]

Protests, Insurrection, and the Second Amendment | Brennan Center for Justice

I just do not buy the Founding Fathers would want a bunch of citizens armed with weapons that are meant for the battlefields and not for home defense, hunting, and legitimate shooting of targets.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

With all due respect that is a speeches argument , the ability of the governed to oppose the government is taken away long before the use of heavy weapons in armed military assault on the civilian population would occur as demonstrated in countries listed in other posts. History seems to demonstrate that unarming of the population is the first step down the road to an oppressive government. It's within living history a time when the availability of semi automatic military weapons were easily obtainable and "mass shootings" were just about unheard of. would this not strongly suggest that the problem is more "sociological" than availability of weapons?
Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." I think he was talking about a taxation issue but the logic hold here as well

With respect to mass shootings........the Trend is not your Friend. Meaning that they have been increasing greatly in recent years. Also, there has been a big increase in general crime and violent crime. There is one possible theory or future possibility that is positive. It is possible and some experts have stated that the recent Pandemic has caused so much mental anxiety that more younger males have started "acting out" their built-up violent tendencies. IF, big IF this is true, and Covid cases continue to be MILD even though increasing - at some future time maybe after 5 years - mass shootings may drop back to pre- Covid levels. That would be a very positive improvement.

Unfortunately, then the problem becomes that even at the pre-Covid level, mass murder events would be too high. Especially in comparison to most or all other 1st world countries. The gun total in the US averages out to 1.2 guns per person, by a whopping margin, the most in the world. That number is also increasing, and will likely make the US less stable as a society, not more stable.

The NRA and gun topic magazines, about 1980 went from being all about hunting to being like a "solder of fortune" propaganda media devoted to extolling man-killing guns like the AR-15 and its various copies. I have even seen articles about 50-caliber long-range sniper rifles and how "wonderful" they are to own - then you throw in 30-round magazines, silencers, and those "wonderful" bump stock rifles that now legally give impressionable young males access to an automatic rifle ......as if the semi-autos are NOT man-killing enough for the TRUE deviate !

These magazines can be found on shelves at Walmart everywhere - it is like propaganda for gun porn and implied violence. These magazines and gun makers are pushing guns and bizarre accessories that are stoking violence in a violent period and in a country with a history of violence !

Today the US is struggling to find a BALANCE between the legitimate right to bear arms and the excessive availability of guns intended and designed for the Military and the Police.

[jimjamuser]

double post, sorry

[biker1]

We don’t send our soldiers to the battlefield with semi-automatic rifles and citizens, except for the very few who have Federal permits, don’t have automatic rifles. We do, however, send our soldiers to the battlefield with automatic rifles (bolt action and semi-automatic sniper rifles notwithstanding). Semi-automatic rifles and semi-automatic handguns make up the majority (vast) of weapons that citizens buy. Pretty much every handgun, except for the very few single-action revolvers, are semi-automatic (I’m including double action revolvers).

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Protests, Insurrection, and the Second Amendment | Brennan Center for Justice

I just do not buy the Founding Fathers would want a bunch of citizens armed with weapons that are meant for the battlefields and not for home defense, hunting, and legitimate shooting of targets.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Protests, Insurrection, and the Second Amendment | Brennan Center for Justice

I just do not buy the Founding Fathers would want a bunch of citizens armed with weapons that are meant for the world's battlefields and not for home defense, hunting, and legitimate shooting of targets.

OH? Do you have some quotes from the Founders that support what your opinion?

[Sarah_W]

The original subject of this thread was what our Founding Fathers considered to be arms.

I understand that a lot of folks wish to talk about mass killings. So, I've started another thread where we can have an honest conversation about mass murder events.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

With respect to mass shootings........the Trend is not your Friend. Meaning that they have been increasing greatly in recent years. Also, there has been a big increase in general crime and violent crime. There is one possible theory or future possibility that is positive. It is possible and some experts have stated that the recent Pandemic has caused so much mental anxiety that more younger males have started "acting out" their built-up violent tendencies. IF, big IF this is true, and Covid cases continue to be MILD even though increasing - at some future time maybe after 5 years - mass shootings may drop back to pre- Covid levels. That would be a very positive improvement.

Unfortunately, then the problem becomes that even at the pre-Covid level, mass murder events would be too high. Especially in comparison to most or all other 1st world countries. The gun total in the US averages out to 1.2 guns per person, by a whopping margin, the most in the world. That number is also increasing, and will likely make the US less stable as a society, not more stable.

The NRA and gun topic magazines, about 1980 went from being all about hunting to being like a "solder of fortune" propaganda media devoted to extolling man-killing guns like the AR-15 and its various copies. I have even seen articles about 50-caliber long-range sniper rifles and how "wonderful" they are to own - then you throw in 30-round magazines, silencers, and those "wonderful" bump stock rifles that now legally give impressionable young males access to an automatic rifle ......as if the semi-autos are NOT man-killing enough for the TRUE deviate !

These magazines can be found on shelves at Walmart everywhere - it is like propaganda for gun porn and implied violence. These magazines and gun makers are pushing guns and bizarre accessories that are stoking violence in a violent period and in a country with a history of violence !

Today the US is struggling to find a BALANCE between the legitimate right to bear arms and the excessive availability of guns intended and designed for the Military and the Police.

How many 50cal rifles have been used for mass shootings in America? My brother and my son-inlaw use a 58cal muzzle loader for hunting deer.

Can you tell me which Walmart sells guns and ammo magazines around here? I have been looking for a good deal on rifle and pistol supplies and have only found Rural King to have decent deals.

If America is too harsh and violent and Australia is so great for some.....sounds like it is time to migrate. Personally, I feel safe here. I totally support the 2nd Amend and find it to be a useful tool for American citizens safety. You cannot depend on a very small law enforcement presence and most of the time they can't do anything until a crime has already been committed. You can't get rid of evil by taking defense away from honest, good citizens. Just because some on here are scared of the big bang guns, that doesn't mean that everyone else should coddle their fear. The 2nd Amend allows us to have firearms, period. There is nothing in it detailing what type are allowed. I do not care what some "think" or "feel" is logical to them as for what can or cannot be owned by good American citizens.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Protests, Insurrection, and the Second Amendment | Brennan Center for Justice

I just do not buy the Founding Fathers would want a bunch of citizens armed with weapons that are meant for the battlefields and not for home defense, hunting, and legitimate shooting of targets.

With all due respect, weapons "for home defense, hunting, and legitimate shooting of targets." were a given at the time our nation came into being. A gun was a survival tool as much as hoes, spades, and axes were survival tools. It would have made as much (or as little) sense for the founders to amend the Constitution so that the right to own an ax was enshrined as a constitutional right.

Every right in the Bill of Rights is there to protect the people from government overreach. It is sophism on steroids to try to argue that the Second Amendment is any different.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

How many 50cal rifles have been used for mass shootings in America? My brother and my son-inlaw use a 58cal muzzle loader for hunting deer.

Can you tell me which Walmart sells guns and ammo magazines around here? I have been looking for a good deal on rifle and pistol supplies and have only found Rural King to have decent deals.

If America is too harsh and violent and Australia is so great for some.....sounds like it is time to migrate. Personally, I feel safe here. I totally support the 2nd Amend and find it to be a useful tool for American citizens safety. You cannot depend on a very small law enforcement presence and most of the time they can't do anything until a crime has already been committed. You can't get rid of evil by taking defense away from honest, good citizens. Just because some on here are scared of the big bang guns, that doesn't mean that everyone else should coddle their fear. The 2nd Amend allows us to have firearms, period. There is nothing in it detailing what type are allowed. I do not care what some "think" or "feel" is logical to them as for what can or cannot be owned by good American citizens.

The gun magazines that I talked about in my 3rd paragraph are gun magazines devoted to the topic of guns (the paper kind that you read), not the steel kind that hold cartridge rounds. Walmart does have those in their reading magazine area.

[Taltarzac725]

Constitutional Myth #6: The Second Amendment Allows Citizens to Threaten Government - The Atlantic

Worth a look.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Constitutional Myth #6: The Second Amendment Allows Citizens to Threaten Government - The Atlantic

Worth a look.

I enjoy reading The Atlantic. Well-written articles always. I don't agree with all of them, but if I did I wouldn't bother reading it. I don't need an echo.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Constitutional Myth #6: The Second Amendment Allows Citizens to Threaten Government - The Atlantic

Worth a look.

I enjoy reading The Atlantic. Well-written articles always. I don't agree with all of them, but if I did I wouldn't bother reading it. I don't need an echo.

IN essence, though, we're arguing something that has already been decided. Whatever the wishes of part of the population, the other part is already very well-armed, and ready to defend their freedom and way of life, should it ever come to that. And nothing we're arguing about here, or anywhere, will change that.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I enjoy reading The Atlantic. Well-written articles always. I don't agree with all of them, but if I did I wouldn't bother reading it. I don't need an echo.

IN essence, though, we're arguing something that has already been decided. Whatever the wishes of part of the population, the other part is already very well-armed, and ready to defend their freedom and way of life, should it ever come to that. And nothing we're arguing about here, or anywhere, will change that.

Law and order would change that. Basically overthrowing the government is sedition. It is against the law.

18 U.S. Code SS 2384 - Seditious conspiracy | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Law and order would change that. Basically overthrowing the government is sedition. It is against the law.

18 U.S. Code SS 2384 - Seditious conspiracy | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

If law and order prevailed in this country, defending freedoms through force would not even be considered.