[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

With all due respect, weapons "for home defense, hunting, and legitimate shooting of targets." were a given at the time our nation came into being. A gun was a survival tool as much as hoes, spades, and axes were survival tools. It would have made as much (or as little) sense for the founders to amend the Constitution so that the right to own an ax was enshrined as a constitutional right.

Every right in the Bill of Rights is there to protect the people from government overreach. It is sophism on steroids to try to argue that the Second Amendment is any different.

And yet, that is EXACTLY what was intended by the Second Amendment. At the time there was no standing army. So there was no army gear. No army uniforms, no army weapons, no army vehicles or stables for mounted soldiers. People joined to defend their country using their own weapons. 2A guaranteed they had the right to do so.

[Normal]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

And yet, that is EXACTLY what was intended by the Second Amendment. At the time there was no standing army. So there was no army gear. No army uniforms, no army weapons, no army vehicles or stables for mounted soldiers. People joined to defend their country using their own weapons. 2A guaranteed they had the right to do so.

May I clarify? The first US military was established by congress in Sept 1789. The Bill of Rights was adopted in December of 1791. You can Google it if you wish, but I taught Social Studies for many years in addition to many other hats and I can tell you this for certain.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Normal

May I clarify? The first US military was established by congress in Sept 1789. The Bill of Rights was adopted in December of 1791. You can Google it if you wish, but I taught Social Studies for many years in addition to many other hats and I can tell you this for certain.

Good to know.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Normal

May I clarify? The first US military was established by congress in Sept 1789. The Bill of Rights was adopted in December of 1791. You can Google it if you wish, but I taught Social Studies for many years in addition to many other hats and I can tell you this for certain.

I stand corrected. The military was officially established in 1789. And then the government said, in 1791, "hey all you soldiers in this rag-tag army with no actual Armory to house artillery, arms, munitions, uniforms - let's make this easier for ya. Instead of unlawfully carrying them from home to your posts (since carrying a firearm was actually ILLEGAL in public in many places throughout the US at the time), you have federal permission to do so." (though they said it more eloquently, using legal terminology of the time, and so on)

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Constitutional Myth #6: The Second Amendment Allows Citizens to Threaten Government - The Atlantic

Worth a look.

Atlantic Myth #1: Nobody believes the Constitution gives the right to threaten government.

[JackRussell]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Amazon.com

The weapons Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin, and others considered as "arms" are far different from the arms of 2022.

The Internet and television were not covered by the First Amendment then?

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by JackRussell

The Internet and television were not covered by the First Amendment then?

I am not someone that thinks we should use the US Constitution as the Founding Fathers meant their ideas to apply to society in 1789 and shortly afterwards.

Society and laws develop. As does the lethality of "arms". People should deal with the 2nd Amendment as it applies to events in 2022 not those in the 1790s.

[Reiver]

Society and laws develop. Ours are becoming more lethal.. I'm not about to give up my rights nor ability to defend myself as criminal penalties lessen and criminal behavior becomes more common.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Reiver

Society and laws develop. Ours are becoming more lethal.. I'm not about to give up my rights nor ability to defend myself as criminal penalties lessen and criminal behavior becomes more common.

And who is trying to take away guns used for home defense, hunting and target practice? NO ONE.

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

And who is trying to take away guns used for home defense, hunting and target practice? NO ONE.

The AR-15 is used for home defense, hunting and target practice.

I hear people call the AR a weapon of war and that is patently false.

The AR may look like an M16 but does not perform like the M16, a weapon of war. Our military issues the M16 which is a select fire rifle meaning there is a switch where the soldier can switch to "Auto" (hold the trigger and it keeps firing until the mag is empty), or switch to "Burst" (hold the trigger and it gives a 3 shot burst) or switch to "Semi" (one shot per trigger pull). Our military has NEVER issued the AR to our soldiers. They would die in battle carrying an AR.

The AR has one mode of fire, which is Semi. One shot per trigger pull. I own a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. It shoots the same round, at the same rate of fire with the same magazine as an AR. But, because it doesn't look like an M16 and nobody is concerned by it.

An Opal GT may look like a Corvette, but it will not perform like a Corvette. You can enter the Lemans with a Corvette and win. Enter the Lemans with an Opal GT and you will be dead last or not finish.


Home Defense

Many people choose the AR for home defense. We saw it used successfully during Hurricane Katrina when looting was a problem. People defend their home.

Target practice

The most common rifle I see at the range is the AR, by a wide margin. The AR is like the Harley Davidson, you can customize it to your hearts content. It is fairly light due to the materials used to construct the chassis (wood is heavy). It is easy to shoot and has low recoil.

Sporting Rifle

Three Gun Competition is a very popular sporting event where competitors shoot a rifle, shotgun and handgun as they move through the stages. The AR is the most popular rifle used in this competition.

Steel Challenge is a very popular sporting event where competitors move through eight stages with five targets each at varying distances and configurations. There are several classes a shooter can choose including Pistol Caliber Carbine. For example, I compete in Steel Challenge and choose to shoot in two classes, 1) Factory handgun and 2) PCC, pistol caliber carbine. I own a Kel Tec SUB2000 (made in Florida). It uses 9mm ammunition in a Glock magazine. A pistol ammunition in a pistol magazine.

Incidentally, my Kel Tec is on the list of rifles that H.R. 1808 seeks to ban.

Hunting

The AR is one of the most popular hunting rifles. They are lightweight, easier to carry through the woods than a bolt action rifle, accurate and versatile. Being a modular rifle they can be configured to hunt different game by changing the barrel, bolt carrier group, and magazine.

An avid hunter might choose the following calibers utilized in the same chassis:

.223: Ideal for hunting smaller game like coyotes, rabbits, foxes and varmints.

.300 Blackout: Excellent for hunting animals like feral hogs, varmints and deer.

.308: Powerful rounds you can use to hunt moose, elk, black bears, hogs and deer.

6.5 Grendel: Rounds that produce low recoil — perfect for hunting deer-sized animals.

As a very experienced shooter it is my opinion that a gun is only as good as the shooter on the trigger. I can hand an AR to a novice shooter, show them how to use it, and pick a target from 100 to 400 yards. I will beat them with a handgun.

A "military style" weapon is no more a weapon of war than putting a uniform on Mr. Whipple and calling him a Navy Seal.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

And who is trying to take away guns used for home defense, hunting and target practice? NO ONE.

The House just passed a law banning AR-15's and other "assault weapons" and "large capacity" magazines. They ARE actually attempting to ban all semi-automatic weapons, which hopefully will be shut down by the Supreme Court. Yes, they really ARE "trying to take away guns used for home defense, hunting and target practice."

The most evident problem today is that those that fear firearms do not know a lick about them and insist that anything that goes bang when you pull the trigger is a dangerous assault weapon. If you allow them to pervert the term "assault weapon" in their ignorance, then they will take away anything that is an firearm and eventually, any knife that isn't plastic. Anything that presents a threat to someone else will be labeled "assault weapon." So, instead of punishing the evil doers, they will be punishing the honest, law abiding citizen. So much for those that insist that no one is attempting to take away your guns. We are now seeing an attempt to create millions of criminals by attempting to disarm decent citizens. Do not attempt to tell me that having bolt action rifles or revolvers is "OK." It's only OK with those that do not like, or those that fear firearms. This is becoming a country where laws are created to protect the criminal and punish those that wish to protect their property, family and themselves. I sincerely doubt that the Constitution was meant to protect the criminal over the decent, honest citizen.

[Taltarzac725]

It is a ban and not confiscating them from people who already own them.

And there was a gun law for 10 years. Brady Law | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

As to the Supreme Court who knows what they will do? They have become a political body and not a check on bad laws. That is not what the Founding Fathers intended.

Originally Posted by Byte1

The House just passed a law banning AR-15's and other "assault weapons" and "large capacity" magazines. They ARE actually attempting to ban all semi-automatic weapons, which hopefully will be shut down by the Supreme Court. Yes, they really ARE "trying to take away guns used for home defense, hunting and target practice."

The most evident problem today is that those that fear firearms do not know a lick about them and insist that anything that goes bang when you pull the trigger is a dangerous assault weapon. If you allow them to pervert the term "assault weapon" in their ignorance, then they will take away anything that is an firearm and eventually, any knife that isn't plastic. Anything that presents a threat to someone else will be labeled "assault weapon." So, instead of punishing the evil doers, they will be punishing the honest, law abiding citizen. So much for those that insist that no one is attempting to take away your guns. We are now seeing an attempt to create millions of criminals by attempting to disarm decent citizens. Do not attempt to tell me that having bolt action rifles or revolvers is "OK." It's only OK with those that do not like, or those that fear firearms. This is becoming a country where laws are created to protect the criminal and punish those that wish to protect their property, family and themselves. I sincerely doubt that the Constitution was meant to protect the criminal over the decent, honest citizen.

[Taltarzac725]

It is a ban and not confiscating them from people who already own them.

And there was a gun law for 10 years. Brady Law | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

As to the Supreme Court who knows what they will do? They have become a political body and not a check on bad laws. That is not what the Founding Fathers intended.

Originally Posted by Byte1

The House just passed a law banning AR-15's and other "assault weapons" and "large capacity" magazines. They ARE actually attempting to ban all semi-automatic weapons, which hopefully will be shut down by the Supreme Court. Yes, they really ARE "trying to take away guns used for home defense, hunting and target practice."

The most evident problem today is that those that fear firearms do not know a lick about them and insist that anything that goes bang when you pull the trigger is a dangerous assault weapon. If you allow them to pervert the term "assault weapon" in their ignorance, then they will take away anything that is an firearm and eventually, any knife that isn't plastic. Anything that presents a threat to someone else will be labeled "assault weapon." So, instead of punishing the evil doers, they will be punishing the honest, law abiding citizen. So much for those that insist that no one is attempting to take away your guns. We are now seeing an attempt to create millions of criminals by attempting to disarm decent citizens. Do not attempt to tell me that having bolt action rifles or revolvers is "OK." It's only OK with those that do not like, or those that fear firearms. This is becoming a country where laws are created to protect the criminal and punish those that wish to protect their property, family and themselves. I sincerely doubt that the Constitution was meant to protect the criminal over the decent, honest citizen.

[Taltarzac725]

It is a ban and not confiscating them from people who already own them.

And there was a gun law for 10 years. Brady Law | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

As to the Supreme Court who knows what they will do? They have become a political body and not a check on bad laws. That is not what the Founding Fathers intended.

Originally Posted by Byte1

The House just passed a law banning AR-15's and other "assault weapons" and "large capacity" magazines. They ARE actually attempting to ban all semi-automatic weapons, which hopefully will be shut down by the Supreme Court. Yes, they really ARE "trying to take away guns used for home defense, hunting and target practice."

The most evident problem today is that those that fear firearms do not know a lick about them and insist that anything that goes bang when you pull the trigger is a dangerous assault weapon. If you allow them to pervert the term "assault weapon" in their ignorance, then they will take away anything that is an firearm and eventually, any knife that isn't plastic. Anything that presents a threat to someone else will be labeled "assault weapon." So, instead of punishing the evil doers, they will be punishing the honest, law abiding citizen. So much for those that insist that no one is attempting to take away your guns. We are now seeing an attempt to create millions of criminals by attempting to disarm decent citizens. Do not attempt to tell me that having bolt action rifles or revolvers is "OK." It's only OK with those that do not like, or those that fear firearms. This is becoming a country where laws are created to protect the criminal and punish those that wish to protect their property, family and themselves. I sincerely doubt that the Constitution was meant to protect the criminal over the decent, honest citizen.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

It is a ban and not confiscating them from people who already own them.

And there was a gun law for 10 years. Brady Law | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

As to the Supreme Court who knows what they will do? They have become a political body and not a check on bad laws. That is not what the Founding Fathers intended.

Your political opinion. Who determines what is a "bad law?" You? I thought that was the function of the Supreme Court, and whether we agree with their opinion or not, that is their job. And that is my opinion.