[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

F.D.A. Panel Recommends Pfizer Boosters for Those Over 65 or at Risk - The New York Times

Three people we know have received them already.

Oh, so it is just Pfizer for the booster shots and not Moderna.

As an aside.......Moderna always seems to be one step behind Pfizer every step of the way.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by SkBlogW

HOWEVER, the percentage of those vaccinated people carrying the virus is very, very low.

"Very very low?" Not according to the CDC

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated; of these, 301 (87%) were male, with a median age of 42 years. Vaccine products received by persons experiencing breakthrough infections were Pfizer-BioNTech (159; 46%), Moderna (131; 38%), and Janssen (56; 16%); among fully vaccinated persons in the Massachusetts general population, 56% had received Pfizer-BioNTech, 38% had received Moderna, and 7% had received Janssen vaccine products. Among persons with breakthrough infection, 274 (79%) reported signs or symptoms, with the most common being cough, headache, sore throat, myalgia, and fever.


79% percent does not sound very very low to me.

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021 | MMWR

This is why hubby and I are not attending any large gatherings at the recreation centers until we get our booster shots.

[biker1]

Apparently you can't use a search engine. Here you go:

COVID-19 Vaccines for Moderately to Severely Immunocompromised People | CDC

Watch the news for final FDA approval for a booster shot for those over 65 (without being immunocompromised).

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Oh, so it is just Pfizer for the booster shots and not Moderna.

As an aside.......Moderna always seems to be one step behind Pfizer every step of the way.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by SkBlogW

They are not carrying it at all? LOL Is that why CDC suddenly changed course and told fully vaccinated people to wear masks when indoors???

From the CDC:


People infected with the Delta variant, including fully vaccinated people with symptomatic breakthrough infections, can transmit the virus to others. CDC is continuing to assess data on whether fully vaccinated people with asymptomatic breakthrough infections can transmit the virus.

Delta Variant: What We Know About the Science | CDC

So what percentage of covid cases recently, during delta surge, arer among the fully vaccinated.

CDC study in Los Angeles

The new data released on Tuesday involved more than 43,000 reported infections among Los Angeles County residents aged 16 and older. Of them, 10,895, or 25.3%, occurred in fully vaccinated persons, 1,431, or 3.3%, were in partially vaccinated persons, and 30,801, or 71.4%, were in unvaccinated individuals.

Los Angeles Director of Public Health Barbara Ferrer:

Breakthrough Infections Are Now 30% Of All New Covid Cases Amid Delta Surge

In Los Angeles, Breakthrough Infections Are Now 30% Of All New Covid Cases Amid Delta Surge

Your first quote seems pretty clear: symptomatic infections can transmit the virus but it is still undetermined whether asymptomatic breakthrough cases are contagious.

Then the Los Angeles data. LA claims to be 68% fully vaccinated meaning more than twice as many are vaccinated than are unvaccinated. Still, nearly three times as many cases are from the unvaccinated. Twice the number of people generating only one third the total cases makes a good argument that the vaccinated are MUCH LESS likely to become infected.

Much less likely to become infected when vaccinated and undetermined whether vaccinated asymptomatic cases are contagious at all sounds like good news for the vaccines.

[Boomer]

Thank you to all of posters who appreciated my sharing of the op-ed piece, "The 7 Stages of Covid" that started this thread.

Primary sources are valuable and that is exactly what the respiratory therapist's writing is. She is on the front lines, caring for severe Covid patients, and she is telling us about it in her own words. That's what is known as a primary source.

The writer describes what she sees as a severe Covid patient's condition gets worse, in stages, until sometimes death is where it ends. It is not an easy read. But it is the reality of where Covid can go.

But now this thread has filled up with the relentless linking from a few posters who did not like seeing the reality of what Covid can do, especially to the unvaccinated. And they do not want anyone else to see it either. And so, they go to war. And they are loving it. They must because they spend a helluva lot of time at it.

They will never run out of material.

Their "research" is bottomless. — grasping at straws or just plain made up.

Sometimes I wonder if these posts are all from just a couple of people with different names.

There is definitely a pattern to some of these posts. I am no Nancy Drew, but c'mon, an all day obsession with posting link after link after link -- some probably from shadow sources. . .

Ever hear of a leaflet drop? The term can refer to something as innocuous as a flyer on your windshield or an ad hung on your front door. . .

BUT, a leaflet drop is also a term that has been used for a form of psychological warfare -- airborne leaflet propaganda, scattered in the air, in an attempt to alter the behavior of combatants and civilians in enemy-controlled territory. . .

It is not a big leap to see the constant repetition and the endless links as an attempt to get inside the heads of those who think differently.

Obviously, those who do not agree with vaccination being our ticket out of this mess could say that we pro-vax thinkers are guilty of doing leaflet drops, too. But I don't think that the term fits so perfectly. . .

Why do I think that? Because most of us pro-vax thinkers do other things with our days. We do not appear to be obsessive -- just pizzed off sometimes. We use our own words significantly more often than the perpetual linkers do -- redundancy rules those posts -- effortless redundancy.

Again, thank you to those who thanked me for posting that reality check to start this thread. But now we are engaged in the usual back and forth with the faceless other that gets us nowhere. We are being baited.

I wish everybody would just go outside and play or watch Ted Lasso or listen to Jimmy Buffett.

Mr. Moderator, tear down this thread!. . .please and thank you. . .well, actually I did not mean for you to tear it down, just close the darned thing. I was just being dramatic, invoking those years when it was my party — and I’ll cry if I want to.

Boomer

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

OK, you say the vaccine is 99% safe, and we are told by the CDC that 99.8+ of those under 65 infected with covid recover fine, I would say it is still a personal choice. What is right for you may not be right for a 30 year old in perfect health. With non vaxxed people presenting the same risk to you as a vaxxed person (Oxford Study), why do you care. Take care of yourself and let others make their own choices.

I have said the before and will say it again........it is the UN-vaccinated people who are filling the ICU beds in communities all over our country( and they are dying too). What if a loved one needs an ICU bed for a medical issue other than Covid? What about those elective surgeries that have been put on hold because of all those UN-vaccinated Covid patients taking up ICU beds? I want and need to know that there are available ICU beds for people who need them besides those people fighting for their lives with Covid.

It has been determined that those who are in ICU suffering from Covid are NOT the vaccinated. It is as simple as that.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

It reminds me of when someone makes a poor choice. They go on a crusade to say everyone must do as they did. Perhaps it makes them feel less foolish if everyone makes the same choice as they did. The threat of covid is wildly different for different people. Depending on age and health, a very reasonable argument can be made not to get the jab.

Recently, patients taking up ICU beds in our country are children. Kids are being hit harder with this Delta variant.

U.S. Reports Record COVID Hospitalizations of Children

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

Oxford study showed similar percentage and similar viral loads of the Delta Variant in vax'd and non vax'd.

OK.....we get it. But, it is the un-vaccinated people that are dying of Covid, NOT the vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Sweden. 2020. showing coffins of people who died from Covid. - Bing images

France is overwhelmed by Covid deaths. 2020 - Bing images


Covid deaths in South America. Hospitals overwhelmed. - Bing images

Gracie, I'm with you, BUT................

There are people who will look with their hands covering their eyes and there are people who will listen with their fingers in their ears while they chant, "la, la, la, la, la, la" etc. The more evidence that can be seen with their own eyes or heard with their own ears will continue to fall on blind eyes and deaf ears.

[John Mayes]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

This gets more confusing to me. I just want to try to get this straight.......

Currently, aren't people who are immunocompromised (cancer patients, organ recipients, people on immunosuppressant drugs as examples) eligible for Pfizer or Moderna booster shots? OR is it just Pfizer?

Not Moderna.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

Increases in Coronavirus Cases Are Happening Mainly in States With Stricter COVID-19 Rules
‘He did everything right,’ Oklahoma teacher still contracts COVID-19 despite having three Pfizer shots - NewsBreak

People who are organ transplant recipients are severely immunocompromised because of the anti-rejection drugs that are necessary to maintain the organ. These vaccines can not work to the best of their efficiency when a person's immune system can not mount a good enough defense against a pathogen. You can not blame that on the vaccines. You have to blame that on a person's compromised immune system. Sad but true.

[John Mayes]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

How dare you say that to our Gracie Girl. East coasters are aggressive? Yup. You got that right and I'm one of them. PLEASE be nice to Gracie.

Trust me…..that’s not something to be proud of.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

The studies I have read agree with your last statement, that the viral loads are the same for the first 7-8 days, then the vaccinated individual's viral load drops at a faster rate than the unvaccinated for the next three to four days.
As for carrying viral loads, studies I read show both vaccinated and non are equally likely to carry DELTA viral loads, though vaccinated are more likely to be asymptomatic. This could be a greater risk, as they are likely unaware that they are a transmitter. I would think this is why they are saying if you at risk, regardless of the vaccine start to wear your mask again.

I will add that, as a fully vaccinated individual, I will not wear a mask to protect the immunocompromised, those who cannot be vaccinated because of medical issues or those who have decided not to get vaccinated. I agree that those who are vulnerable to the virus should protect themselves and not count on me to protect them.

An N95 mask is the protective mask that is necessary for those who are at risk of severe disease from Covid. I checked and Amazon sells them. They may even be available from our local pharmacies. Stay safe out there!

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And next week there will be more breakthrough cases, and even more the week after that. As we get further away from the dates the first vaccines were administered, the more immunity will wane. All you have done is make a case for the booster vaccine.

You cannot sit there and cherry pick a few snippets from a google search and understand the virology and epidemiology of this pandemic

You keep avoiding the question

You have made two assertions in this thread without providing any cites whatsoever:

HOWEVER, the percentage of those vaccinated people carrying the virus is very, very low.

THEY ARE NOT CARRYING IT AT ALL

Both these statements are totally bogus. The CDC does not agree with these statements. Again, why did CDC reverse course and tell fully vaccinated to wear masks indoors?? Just for fun?

I am not cherry picking data, the reason the data is sparse is because the CDC stoped reporting breakthough cases months ago. We only have data from some states and cities that report this correctly as well as countries like Israel.

We know that breakthrough cases are climbing everywhere it's been measured, like Los Angeles. The CDC knows this and also knows that fully vaccinated people spread the virus and a good percentage of breakthrough cases are symptomatic.

Why is CDC suppressing this data? In their own words:

Vaccine breakthrough cases may reduce public confidence in vaccines

Thats just one of a number of leaked CDC presentation slides that the Washington Post uncovered July 29.

Here are a few more CDC slide headlines:

Increasing percentage of vaccinated persons among those hospitalized in COVID-NET

Delta variant vaccine breakthrough cases may be as transmissible as unvaccinated cases.

Vaccines prevent >90% of severe disease, but may be less effective at preventing
infection or transmission – Therefore, more breakthrough and more community spread despite vaccination.

https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.c...827155.#page=1

[John Mayes]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I will add that, as a fully vaccinated individual, I will not wear a mask to protect the immunocompromised, those who cannot be vaccinated because of medical issues or those who have decided not to get vaccinated. I agree that those who are vulnerable to the virus should protect themselves and not count on me to protect them.

An N95 mask is the protective mask that is necessary for those who are at risk of severe disease from Covid. I checked and Amazon sells them. They may even be available from our local pharmacies. Good luck out there!

Wow. Hope you never need help down the road. SMH.