front page new york times may 24 2020 - Bing

The NYT Front Page - Sunday, May 24, 2020

Please point to a study that says unvaccinated are more likely to carry Delta Covid Viral load vs vaccinated. Dr. Walensky of the CDC explained last month, while the COVID vaccines remain incredibly effective at preventing serious illness and death, “what they cannot do anymore is prevent transmission.”
I disagree with the poison ivy comparison. We KNOW vaccinated people have the same viral load as unvaccinated. Your comparison would suggest there would be lower viral loads in vaccinated (lower lesions in clothed poison ivy victims) Assuming you are equating cloths with vaccine, the vaccinated have the same viral loads as the unvaccinated.

Sweden. 2020. showing coffins of people who died from Covid. - Bing images

France is overwhelmed by Covid deaths. 2020 - Bing images


Covid deaths in South America. Hospitals overwhelmed. - Bing images

Need a 4th j-an?
‘He did everything right,’ Oklahoma teacher still contracts COVID-19 despite having three Pfizer shots - NewsBreak

A vaccinated individual who contracts Covid and dies is just as dead as an unvaccinated individual who contracted Covid and died.

A vaccinated individual who becomes infected with Covid can carry similar viral loads as the unvaccinated individual.

The difference is in the likelihood that a vaccinated individual will become infected in the first place.

The vaccine makes this much less likely - not impossible, but not likely. I believe there have also been studies that show that vaccinated individuals who become infected are contagious for fewer days but I can't find that link right now.

I educated you 3 times about this already, I am not going to repeat it for a 4th.

Access Denied

permanent damage to lungs from covid-19 - Bing images

Increases in Coronavirus Cases Are Happening Mainly in States With Stricter COVID-19
 

Increases in Coronavirus Cases Are Happening Mainly in States With Stricter COVID-19 Rules
‘He did everything right,’ Oklahoma teacher still contracts COVID-19 despite having three Pfizer shots - NewsBreak

The studies I have read agree with your last statement, that the viral loads are the same for the first 7-8 days, then the vaccinated individual's viral load drops at a faster rate than the unvaccinated for the next three to four days.
As for carrying viral loads, studies I read show both vaccinated and non are equally likely to carry DELTA viral loads, though vaccinated are more likely to be asymptomatic. This could be a greater risk, as they are likely unaware that they are a transmitter. I would think this is why they are saying if you at risk, regardless of the vaccine start to wear your mask again.

??? Where did you get that idea?

Is there a site that ranks Covid restrictions? Certainly, California, New Jersey, and New York would rank high on that list but they are among the states with the smallest increase. Florida must be one of the least restrictive states and led the pack with the current surge.

Florida is not even in the top ten. Texas is not on the list either.
Data was last updated Sept. 20. New cases are measured per 100,000 people.

Louisiana

Seven-day change: 100 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 1,344

Wisconsin

Seven-day change: 50.08 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 2,863

Alaska

Seven-day change: 30.84 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 750

Montana

Seven-day change: 25.02 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 712

Wyoming

Seven-day change: 23.3 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 464

North Dakota

Seven-day change: 19.91 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 350

Michigan

Seven-day change: 14.68 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 3,723

Connecticut

Seven-day change: 6.78 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 748

New Jersey

Seven-day change: 4.81 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 2,133

Maryland

Seven-day change: 3.16 percent increase

Seven-day moving case average: 1,245

I will post the article as well if you like.

Take nothing for granted. You would think FL and TX led the pack, from the way the TV is reporting.

Florida is doing better than NY and NJ. I expanded the list to all 50 states. Again, watching TV one would think FL and TX were the two states with the highest rates. This is yet another reason why people do not trust what is being reported. I'd like to add, the gov't restricting the monoclonal meds to Fl comes across as a very petty, partisan issue. Definitely divisive.

LOL You haven't cited any scientific data backing up your assertion that " the percentage of those vaccinated people carrying the virus is very, very low."

Try again.

Hi Gracie: I sincerely feel terrible that you are so petrified and concerned. It is horrible what the "news" media is doing, instilling fear to the point of paralyzing people. I respect your choices and hope you are able to enjoy an unrestricted life again soon.

The percentage of people vaccinated who carry a viral load is "most likely" many times what is reported. Assuming the claim that the vaccine makes for very mild or even asymptomatic cases, the probability that many positive vaccinated covid Delta carriers are unaware.

I was born and raised on Long Island and my mother would say the same thing to me and my sisters.

Don't post the entire article that you found but the name of the publication or a link to the site would be useful.

WaPo Covid tracker. Near the top under "Places with Highest Daily..."
NYT table. See "State Trends"

Florida, Texas, and Louisiana peaked earlier and are now declining. The surge has now moved on to other states.

The WaPo table shows 42 daily reported cases per 100,000 in FL but only 26 for New Jersey and 27 for New York. And again, Florida is on the way down from a peak of about 80 daily reported cases per 100,000.

The rationing/distributing of the antibodies definitely has a bad feel to it.

How dare you say that to our Gracie Girl. East coasters are aggressive? Yup. You got that right and I'm one of them. PLEASE be nice to Gracie.

Or, alternatively, THEY ARE NOT CARRYING IT AT ALL. Yes, I know it doesn't fit the "anti-vaxxers" narrative, but that's life. I clearly remember lining up in the school gym to get a sugar cube with Sabin vaccine. Thank God there weren't any "anti-vaxxers" back then, or we'd still be dealing with poliomyelitis.

where?

Oh........My..........Goodness!!!

I would think by now you would know the REAL reason Biden and Harris did not trust the vaccine. They made that statement only if the vaccine received the EAU when Trump was STILL IN OFFICE. I understand why they said it. I would not trust the vaccine either if it were rushed into American's arms while Trump was still in office.

I'm so thankful the vaccine did not receive EUA while Trump was in office. I feel very confident with the safety of the vaccine and not that the vaccine was a pawn for political gain for Trump.

MODERATOR........PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not delete this post. The truth needs to be said and if there are people who believe what this poster is intimating; that misinformation MUST be debunked. The poster even queried, "what gives with that?", so I answered his/her query.

I agree. The prosecution opened the door when he asked the question on direct examination:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I will get you the site that shows cases per 100,000. It is the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center. Both the Hopkins stats and the WAPO stats you linked to shows that Florida is in a much better position than some would have us think.

I have read your (WaPo, NYT wants me to subscribe) and it shows trends for the 50 states. This is the site you referenced.
Place Total reported cases per 100k Avg. daily new cases per 100k Change in daily cases in last 7 days
U.S. overall 12,760 40 -14%
Northern Mariana Islands 466 4 100%
Wisconsin 13,518 56 49%
Vermont 5,141 34 30%
Alaska 13,685 117 29%
Minnesota 12,271 39 17%
Montana 13,457 86 14%
Pennsylvania 10,875 37 9%
New York 12,151 27 7%
Connecticut 10,832 19 6%
Massachusetts 11,562 27 6%
Michigan 11,270 32 4%
Iowa 13,967 55 4%
Delaware 13,271 47 3%
Maine 6,335 34 2%
Maryland 8,640 20 1%
American Samoa 0 0 –
District of Columbia 8,461 32 0%
Colorado 11,378 32 -2%
New Jersey 12,808 26 -2%
West Virginia 12,598 100 -2%
Virgin Islands 6,225 30 -3%
Virginia 9,879 41 -4%
Kentucky 14,808 87 -5%
New Hampshire 8,503 30 -6%
Idaho 13,732 67 -6%
New Mexico 11,762 29 -6%
North Dakota 16,702 61 -6%
Arizona 14,711 34 -8%
Ohio 11,684 57 -8%
Rhode Island 16,048 32 -8%
Nebraska 13,497 38 -8%
Washington 8,287 40 -9%
Wyoming 14,868 89 -10%
Guam 8,444 88 -12%
Nevada 13,426 34 -13%
North Carolina 12,937 56 -14%
Utah 15,516 45 -14%
Missouri 13,131 33 -14%
Oklahoma 15,183 47 -15%
California 11,224 20 -17%
Mississippi 16,106 52 -18%
Illinois 12,668 26 -18%
Oregon 7,465 38 -19%
Puerto Rico 9,891 10 -20%
Alabama 15,878 60 -20%
Indiana 13,979 49 -21%
Arkansas 16,133 46 -22%
Georgia 14,586 47 -23%
Kansas 13,796 40 -24%
South Carolina 16,215 70 -25%
Florida 16,423 42 -26%
Hawaii 5,405 33 -28%
Texas 13,650 46 -28%
South Dakota 15,954 46 -28%
Tennessee 17,435 75 -29%
Louisiana 15,746 31 -37%

They are not carrying it at all? LOL Is that why CDC suddenly changed course and told fully vaccinated people to wear masks when indoors???

From the CDC:


People infected with the Delta variant, including fully vaccinated people with symptomatic breakthrough infections, can transmit the virus to others. CDC is continuing to assess data on whether fully vaccinated people with asymptomatic breakthrough infections can transmit the virus.

Delta Variant: What We Know About the Science | CDC

So what percentage of covid cases recently, during delta surge, arer among the fully vaccinated.

CDC study in Los Angeles

The new data released on Tuesday involved more than 43,000 reported infections among Los Angeles County residents aged 16 and older. Of them, 10,895, or 25.3%, occurred in fully vaccinated persons, 1,431, or 3.3%, were in partially vaccinated persons, and 30,801, or 71.4%, were in unvaccinated individuals.

Los Angeles Director of Public Health Barbara Ferrer:

Breakthrough Infections Are Now 30% Of All New Covid Cases Amid Delta Surge

In Los Angeles, Breakthrough Infections Are Now 30% Of All New Covid Cases Amid Delta Surge

I concur.

And next week there will be more breakthrough cases, and even more the week after that. As we get further away from the dates the first vaccines were administered, the more immunity will wane. All you have done is make a case for the booster vaccine.

You cannot sit there and cherry pick a few snippets from a google search and understand the virology and epidemiology of this pandemic

Are you referring to this JHU table? That table is incorrect, it is showing total daily cases not adjusted for population. You can see this by toggling the WaPo data from Adj. for population to Totals. If you do that then the JHU numbers and the WaPo numbers match pretty closely. Plus, do you really believe Florida has zero daily cases as shown in that JHU table?

You can see in the data you posted that FL and TX are both still worse then NY and NJ. Both are declining but are still high. The graphs of the data will show FL hit 80 at one point.

Quoting myself here..........

I spoke with my PCP today and was informed I do not meet the criteria for a booster shot at this time. Oh well, I will wait until I am eligible.

no political references are allowed on the website. Users are not allowed to direct comments toward another user. Direct them to the topic. Violation of these rules can lead to account termination and ban

This gets more confusing to me. I just want to try to get this straight.......

Currently, aren't people who are immunocompromised (cancer patients, organ recipients, people on immunosuppressant drugs as examples) eligible for Pfizer or Moderna booster shots? OR is it just Pfizer?

Oh, so it is just Pfizer for the booster shots and not Moderna.

As an aside.......Moderna always seems to be one step behind Pfizer every step of the way.

This is why hubby and I are not attending any large gatherings at the recreation centers until we get our booster shots.

Apparently you can't use a search engine. Here you go:

COVID-19 Vaccines for Moderately to Severely Immunocompromised People | CDC

Watch the news for final FDA approval for a booster shot for those over 65 (without being immunocompromised).

Your first quote seems pretty clear: symptomatic infections can transmit the virus but it is still undetermined whether asymptomatic breakthrough cases are contagious.

Then the Los Angeles data. LA claims to be 68% fully vaccinated meaning more than twice as many are vaccinated than are unvaccinated. Still, nearly three times as many cases are from the unvaccinated. Twice the number of people generating only one third the total cases makes a good argument that the vaccinated are MUCH LESS likely to become infected.

Much less likely to become infected when vaccinated and undetermined whether vaccinated asymptomatic cases are contagious at all sounds like good news for the vaccines.

Thank you to all of posters who appreciated my sharing of the op-ed piece, "The 7 Stages of Covid" that started this thread.

Primary sources are valuable and that is exactly what the respiratory therapist's writing is. She is on the front lines, caring for severe Covid patients, and she is telling us about it in her own words. That's what is known as a primary source.

The writer describes what she sees as a severe Covid patient's condition gets worse, in stages, until sometimes death is where it ends. It is not an easy read. But it is the reality of where Covid can go.

But now this thread has filled up with the relentless linking from a few posters who did not like seeing the reality of what Covid can do, especially to the unvaccinated. And they do not want anyone else to see it either. And so, they go to war. And they are loving it. They must because they spend a helluva lot of time at it.

They will never run out of material.

Their "research" is bottomless. — grasping at straws or just plain made up.

Sometimes I wonder if these posts are all from just a couple of people with different names.

There is definitely a pattern to some of these posts. I am no Nancy Drew, but c'mon, an all day obsession with posting link after link after link -- some probably from shadow sources. . .

Ever hear of a leaflet drop? The term can refer to something as innocuous as a flyer on your windshield or an ad hung on your front door. . .

BUT, a leaflet drop is also a term that has been used for a form of psychological warfare -- airborne leaflet propaganda, scattered in the air, in an attempt to alter the behavior of combatants and civilians in enemy-controlled territory. . .

It is not a big leap to see the constant repetition and the endless links as an attempt to get inside the heads of those who think differently.

Obviously, those who do not agree with vaccination being our ticket out of this mess could say that we pro-vax thinkers are guilty of doing leaflet drops, too. But I don't think that the term fits so perfectly. . .

Why do I think that? Because most of us pro-vax thinkers do other things with our days. We do not appear to be obsessive -- just pizzed off sometimes. We use our own words significantly more often than the perpetual linkers do -- redundancy rules those posts -- effortless redundancy.

Again, thank you to those who thanked me for posting that reality check to start this thread. But now we are engaged in the usual back and forth with the faceless other that gets us nowhere. We are being baited.

I wish everybody would just go outside and play or watch Ted Lasso or listen to Jimmy Buffett.

Mr. Moderator, tear down this thread!. . .please and thank you. . .well, actually I did not mean for you to tear it down, just close the darned thing. I was just being dramatic, invoking those years when it was my party — and I’ll cry if I want to.

Boomer

I have said the before and will say it again........it is the UN-vaccinated people who are filling the ICU beds in communities all over our country( and they are dying too). What if a loved one needs an ICU bed for a medical issue other than Covid? What about those elective surgeries that have been put on hold because of all those UN-vaccinated Covid patients taking up ICU beds? I want and need to know that there are available ICU beds for people who need them besides those people fighting for their lives with Covid.

It has been determined that those who are in ICU suffering from Covid are NOT the vaccinated. It is as simple as that.

Recently, patients taking up ICU beds in our country are children. Kids are being hit harder with this Delta variant.

U.S. Reports Record COVID Hospitalizations of Children

OK.....we get it. But, it is the un-vaccinated people that are dying of Covid, NOT the vaccinated.

Gracie, I'm with you, BUT................

There are people who will look with their hands covering their eyes and there are people who will listen with their fingers in their ears while they chant, "la, la, la, la, la, la" etc. The more evidence that can be seen with their own eyes or heard with their own ears will continue to fall on blind eyes and deaf ears.

Not Moderna.