An age of greater transparency - repairing the Polices image

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  #1  
Old 07-30-2020, 07:57 PM
skarra skarra is offline
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Default An age of greater transparency - repairing the Polices image

Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.
  #2  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:10 AM
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Nothing wrong with police image.
The focus by the media, special interest groups and politicians on the isolated cases to further an agenda.

Once again the general membership/majority is made to look/appear as needing fixing.

Go after the isolated cases to come up to the standards of the MAJORITY or throw them out. The real problem?

The dudds and incompetence few and bad actors are protected.

Fix the real problem!!
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:38 AM
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Saw a crazy number the other day.............Law Enforcement have 370,000,000 interactions with the public every year.


Given that number, and given the number of bad interactions........the "bad image" is all fabricated.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:45 AM
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Being an LEO must be a very frustrating occupation. You work hard, risking life and limb to arrest violent felons, and the next thing you know you encounter them out on the street again committing more crimes because the court system released them! God bless our LEOs!
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skarra View Post
Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.
I loved the show LivePD. It was my go to wind down therapy and it gave great insight into eight teams of Law Enforcement men and women answering "selected" calls in eight places across the country. I loved to hear rascals called gentlemen and female in descriptions. (they didn't refer to "females ever as ladies) maybe with advice from the women's movement?. I saw that they would distance the two people involved in domestic violence and interview each out of sight and hearing of the other. They would go first to a situation of irrational behavior to secure the situation for those in the medical field. I OFTEN thought that their methods of restraint were justified entirely. I am prejudiced toward the side of the police. I am prejudiced toward following rules. I am prejudiced in believing that you are far better off not needing the police so behave and act right. I am completely surprised that LivePD was shut down by A&E. It was the most watched series of it's kind.

I am also surprised by the selections in MSN News on our computers that deluge us with BLM rhetoric. I feel manipulated and controlled and I don't like it. I do not think that BLM has much of anything to do with equality and fairness or respect. I think it is a tool of some kind to increase tension and anger.

I hope that wasn't political. I don't want to be distanced from this forum. It is a source of great diversion being home all of the time during this pandemic.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by manaboutown View Post
Being an LEO must be a very frustrating occupation. You work hard, risking life and limb to arrest violent felons, and the next thing you know you encounter them out on the street again committing more crimes because the court system released them! God bless our LEOs!

not sure why anyone would start in LE these days
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:06 AM
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Youtube does have a lot of videos of cops behaving badly. There's also a lot of videos where the cop changes his attitude once he sees or is informed that the person has a dashcam. That "no seatbelt" ticket becomes a warning when he's told that it was always on and I have a dashcam that also records inside to prove it.

My dashcam has gotten me out of a few bad tickets. The judge was not happy to see my videos. In one case an officer in DC pulled me over for doing 110 mph in the HOV lane on my motorcycle. He was in an unmarked car with no radar. The video clearly showed me riding in traffic at the posted speed limit. The officer was berated by the judge.
A second encounter was on i66 outside DC. I was in the slow lane and a BMW flew past me and took the exit. On the other side of the overpass was a new officer with his sergeant. They pulled me over for doing 20 over the limit. I explained what happened and that I had a dashcam. I got him on video telling me he believed me but he had to write the ticket anyway because his sergeant was making him.
The judge was not happy with this reasoning and really laid into him.

Before the dashcam was popular I got so many tickets that I lost my license for a year. Luckily I was in the Army during this time. I was never speeding but I was young and in most cases I had a black friend in the car. When you grow up poor you see the police differently if they're taking your paychecks.

I don't support defunding the police and appreciate them. They have the only job that have people trying to kill them on a regular basis. They're true heroes in my book despite my interactions with the bad ones.

I support whatever it takes to get rid of the few bad eggs.
  #8  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:56 AM
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175 views.....6 posts.

I suppose this could be viewed as an example of the silent majority.....being silent?

If folks do not participate when anonymous, most certainly can't expect anymore when there is a need to stand and be counted.



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  #9  
Old 07-31-2020, 01:22 PM
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Default Unfortunately we do not know how many bad apples and bad interactions there are

Quote:
Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
Saw a crazy number the other day.............Law Enforcement have 370,000,000 interactions with the public every year.


Given that number, and given the number of bad interactions........the "bad image" is all fabricated.

Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black. These videos give us a unique opportunity to actually collect that data. And the video was not fabricated, and I've no idea what the fabricated numbers are that you refer to.

If you watched that video (I suspect few did), the unfortunate 18 year old black kid has his hands on the steering wheel when the officer goes up to him - as if though he has been taught by his parents to do that in order to avoid being shot. Does anyone here feel like they need to do that? It really makes one want to cry seeing how badly he is treated by the people with the job of protecting us.

Most of us are white and privileged, and minorities sadly are typically the opposite. Bad cops maybe are jaded by the crime they see, but if they are treating people like the way he did in that video (and has the gall to ask that poor kid why the bad impression of police) he needs to find another job. And if he doesn't want to leave, then he becomes our problem - a really BIG problem.

I get the BLM movement - it's about how their lives and outlooks are so much different from ours due solely to their financial status and color of their skin. There's been a very long history of no level playing field that contributes to that - and it will take numerous generations to overcome what has been done to them. Originally I too was in the All Lives Matter camp, but once I got the idea of what this is all about BLM makes perfect sense and the other "matters" are designed as distractions to have us move along and not do anything. If we truly care about our fellow human beings, it is important to take this first step of at least acknowledging that we have a problem.

I'd like to add to the comment about the dashcam video. I have one and have been stopped once in the last 7 years. The officer definitely took note of it and was super nice. Maybe it was because of the camera which he definitely noticed, or because I was white driving a Lexus in an upscale neighborhood one town away from home, or maybe he was a believer in good community relations - upon reflection I think the latter and a combination. But I suspect the camera did help.

I'm so grateful for the body cam and phones in general. Without them George Floyd would have been just another "resisting arrest" death. I wish there were more cameras around during the times of Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and so many of the other creeps who got away with their crimes for so long.
  #10  
Old 07-31-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by skarra View Post
Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black.

200'ish blacks were killed by LEO last year.
400'ish whites were killed by LEO last year.
Of the 200'ish, all by 14 had guns.
Of the 14, I don't know how many were resisting arrest and fighting an officer.


Not seeing LEO problem or a racial issue.
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2020, 02:13 PM
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Simple question for those concerned about the police' behavior.

How many thought there was a problem before the current onslaught by special interest and minority groups amplified 24/7 by the media?

How many bad cops have you run into in your life time?

For starters.

It is nothing but a hyped up prejudice by those with a specific agenda.....which has nothing to do with the health and welfare of the 98+% of us that support law enforcement.
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2020, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
I loved the show LivePD. It was my go to wind down therapy and it gave great insight into eight teams of Law Enforcement men and women answering "selected" calls in eight places across the country. I loved to hear rascals called gentlemen and female in descriptions. (they didn't refer to "females ever as ladies) maybe with advice from the women's movement?. I saw that they would distance the two people involved in domestic violence and interview each out of sight and hearing of the other. They would go first to a situation of irrational behavior to secure the situation for those in the medical field. I OFTEN thought that their methods of restraint were justified entirely. I am prejudiced toward the side of the police. I am prejudiced toward following rules. I am prejudiced in believing that you are far better off not needing the police so behave and act right. I am completely surprised that LivePD was shut down by A&E. It was the most watched series of it's kind.

I am also surprised by the selections in MSN News on our computers that deluge us with BLM rhetoric. I feel manipulated and controlled and I don't like it. I do not think that BLM has much of anything to do with equality and fairness or respect. I think it is a tool of some kind to increase tension and anger.

I hope that wasn't political. I don't want to be distanced from this forum. It is a source of great diversion being home all of the time during this pandemic.
Completely agree
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  #13  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid View Post
175 views.....6 posts.

I suppose this could be viewed as an example of the silent majority.....being silent?

If folks do not participate when anonymous, most certainly can't expect anymore when there is a need to stand and be counted.



I'll participate. I was worried that it'd be one of those horrible cell phone videos that shows police being brutally violent and threatening to kill or tasering someone who wasn't making attempts to be violent or resisting (there are bunches of those and they're horrifying and I avoid watching them).

This was incredibly tame (comparatively speaking), while at the same time demonstrating CLEARLY why police have earned a poor reputation in some areas of cities and states throughout the country. When they handcuffed him I wished at that time I could've jumped through the computer monitor and protected that kid. Those police know damned well why a young black male in a poor neighborhood would be nervous about being pulled over by a police officer. It's no secret...but they're baiting him, hoping he'll get upset - pushing him to get upset so they'd have a reason to arrest him. That's why they asked the kid why he was acting nervous. They knew the answer before they asked it. They were just hoping for a "reaction."

This is a TYPICAL incident in these neighborhoods. Young black men who are just going to and from work or school, who aren't thugs, don't have drugs, alcohol, or weapons in their vehicles, being stopped by the police for minor infractions that the police escalate through very intentional lines of questioning, into "incidents" that end up with searches - and if the victims (that's what they are - they are victims of the police) get upset - they are arrested.

I've hung out in poor neighborhoods. Heck, I've slept in a graveyard with homeless people, and in a dilapidated condemned building that had a hole in the roof and plastic sheeting over the bed to keep the mattress from soaking when it rained.

Most of the folks living in them are trying to make the best of their situation, and hopefully get out of it. Yes there are thugs, and drugs, and alcohol, and weapons. But most of these people are not thugs, into drugs, alcohol, or killing each other. It makes me sick to my stomach to see the ones who are doing nothing wrong (other than a wide turn - seriously?), being singled out and manhandled and accused and treated like scum, because of the few who actually deserve the scrutiny.

Ask yourselves - when was the last time you even noticed whether or not you were making a "wide turn?" And when was the last time you were pulled over for such a minor infraction? You know minorities get pulled over regularly for failing to signal? For not using their turn signal. It happens. Every single day. Meanwhile, the rest of us who aren't minorities, forget to turn the signal, and then when we remember to use it, forget to turn it off, we roll through stop signs, we don't pull over immediately when an ambulance is trying to pass, we do all kinds of things we aren't supposed to do - and rarely, if ever, get pulled over for it.

SO there you have it. That's my participation piece. This is why the police need their reputation to be repaired. Because there are kids with beautiful smiles and bright futures being bullied and manhandled by cops who think that those smiles and futures are meaningless if their skin is darker than theirs.
  #14  
Old 08-01-2020, 05:16 AM
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Thank a police officer for the work they do. I do it every time an opportunity arises because they need our support and respect. We must not allow the propaganda from the media to berate and attack our front line of law and order. There are bad officers. I'll grant you that, but they are a small, small minority and they will be held responsible for the damage they have done to their profession and to the people they are supposed to serve and protect.
The silent majority must be silent no more. VOTE.
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Old 08-01-2020, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skarra View Post
Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.
So job evaluations should be performed by NON-law enforcement individuals, that know nothing of police work? Untrained civilians should police the police? I can see how some that are ignorant of the difficult job that law enforcement performs could decide that Social Services is better equipped to handle the job of law enforcement. If not so sad, this would warrant a giant fit of laughter.

News flask: Bad behavior by the police is quickly weeded out. Every heard of Internal Affairs. They are hardly protecting "bad" police officers, even though they are supposedly their own.
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