An age of greater transparency - repairing the Polices image

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  #31  
Old 08-01-2020, 12:08 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby View Post
I'll participate. I was worried that it'd be one of those horrible cell phone videos that shows police being brutally violent and threatening to kill or tasering someone who wasn't making attempts to be violent or resisting (there are bunches of those and they're horrifying and I avoid watching them).

This was incredibly tame (comparatively speaking), while at the same time demonstrating CLEARLY why police have earned a poor reputation in some areas of cities and states throughout the country. When they handcuffed him I wished at that time I could've jumped through the computer monitor and protected that kid. Those police know damned well why a young black male in a poor neighborhood would be nervous about being pulled over by a police officer. It's no secret...but they're baiting him, hoping he'll get upset - pushing him to get upset so they'd have a reason to arrest him. That's why they asked the kid why he was acting nervous. They knew the answer before they asked it. They were just hoping for a "reaction."

This is a TYPICAL incident in these neighborhoods. Young black men who are just going to and from work or school, who aren't thugs, don't have drugs, alcohol, or weapons in their vehicles, being stopped by the police for minor infractions that the police escalate through very intentional lines of questioning, into "incidents" that end up with searches - and if the victims (that's what they are - they are victims of the police) get upset - they are arrested.

I've hung out in poor neighborhoods. Heck, I've slept in a graveyard with homeless people, and in a dilapidated condemned building that had a hole in the roof and plastic sheeting over the bed to keep the mattress from soaking when it rained.

Most of the folks living in them are trying to make the best of their situation, and hopefully get out of it. Yes there are thugs, and drugs, and alcohol, and weapons. But most of these people are not thugs, into drugs, alcohol, or killing each other. It makes me sick to my stomach to see the ones who are doing nothing wrong (other than a wide turn - seriously?), being singled out and manhandled and accused and treated like scum, because of the few who actually deserve the scrutiny.

Ask yourselves - when was the last time you even noticed whether or not you were making a "wide turn?" And when was the last time you were pulled over for such a minor infraction? You know minorities get pulled over regularly for failing to signal? For not using their turn signal. It happens. Every single day. Meanwhile, the rest of us who aren't minorities, forget to turn the signal, and then when we remember to use it, forget to turn it off, we roll through stop signs, we don't pull over immediately when an ambulance is trying to pass, we do all kinds of things we aren't supposed to do - and rarely, if ever, get pulled over for it.

SO there you have it. That's my participation piece. This is why the police need their reputation to be repaired. Because there are kids with beautiful smiles and bright futures being bullied and manhandled by cops who think that those smiles and futures are meaningless if their skin is darker than theirs.
Wow!!!! That was REALLY some way interesting post. Good to not be afraid to relate to low points in ones life (everybody has those, few let them out to get oxygen). That WAS pure participation. And I was beginning to think that this site was just about CV info-bullies and threads like - What candy bar did you like growing up?
  #32  
Old 08-01-2020, 01:01 PM
LoisR LoisR is offline
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Originally Posted by billethkid View Post
Nothing wrong with police image.
The focus by the media, special interest groups and politicians on the isolated cases to further an agenda.

Once again the general membership/majority is made to look/appear as needing fixing.

Go after the isolated cases to come up to the standards of the MAJORITY or throw them out. The real problem?

The dudds and incompetence few and bad actors are protected.

Fix the real problem!!
When have you ever heard of a "good cop" turning in a "bad cop?"

How about a college degree being necessary for even consideration to apply?
  #33  
Old 08-01-2020, 02:06 PM
OrangeBlossomBaby OrangeBlossomBaby is offline
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Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
Wow!!!! That was REALLY some way interesting post. Good to not be afraid to relate to low points in ones life (everybody has those, few let them out to get oxygen). That WAS pure participation. And I was beginning to think that this site was just about CV info-bullies and threads like - What candy bar did you like growing up?
It wasn't a low point in my life, at all. I wasn't homeless. I slept in a graveyard WITH homeless people. They invited me. I was welcomed among them because I was a street musician, and Harvard Square (Cambridge, MA) has a sort of counter-culture there with buskers, homeless, near-homeless, artists of all sorts, and "poor college students on scholarships." I considered it an honor and a privilege to share their "living space." To allow an "outsider" into the only semblance of privacy they have, is a very rare opportunity and a huge gesture of trust on their part.

The condemned building was a sort of flop-house for a group of the street people (not homeless exactly - but still part of the counter-culture). I was "with" one of them for several months, he was a Vietnam Veteran suffering from PTSD, alcoholism, and a rare gift of expressing himself through music. He's mostly cleaned up his act, gotten the help he needed, and is now a street-minister who uses his music to spread the good word and help others who live in difficult circumstances.

The stories I share are mostly stories of my personal observance - of other people. How they touched me and my life through THEIR experiences. That's why I'm so passionate about this topic. It breaks my heart to see these kids having to grow up afraid to leave their front door, out of fear of "charged with being black in public."
  #34  
Old 08-01-2020, 03:21 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby View Post
It wasn't a low point in my life, at all. I wasn't homeless. I slept in a graveyard WITH homeless people. They invited me. I was welcomed among them because I was a street musician, and Harvard Square (Cambridge, MA) has a sort of counter-culture there with buskers, homeless, near-homeless, artists of all sorts, and "poor college students on scholarships." I considered it an honor and a privilege to share their "living space." To allow an "outsider" into the only semblance of privacy they have, is a very rare opportunity and a huge gesture of trust on their part.

The condemned building was a sort of flop-house for a group of the street people (not homeless exactly - but still part of the counter-culture). I was "with" one of them for several months, he was a Vietnam Veteran suffering from PTSD, alcoholism, and a rare gift of expressing himself through music. He's mostly cleaned up his act, gotten the help he needed, and is now a street-minister who uses his music to spread the good word and help others who live in difficult circumstances.

The stories I share are mostly stories of my personal observance - of other people. How they touched me and my life through THEIR experiences. That's why I'm so passionate about this topic. It breaks my heart to see these kids having to grow up afraid to leave their front door, out of fear of "charged with being black in public."
Well, that makes an even more interesting post. There is a similar mixed group of slices of society in Clearwater Beach that I wandered through about 10 years ago when I had more adventure flowing through my veins. It was a thought-provoking experience.
  #35  
Old 08-01-2020, 03:28 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
Hmmmm


unfortunately there are thousands of positions opened and not filled.
There would be plenty of recruits if the salary was equal or more than the danger and other disadvantages. I mentioned budget, so I stand by my statement. ANY job can be filled if the salary is satisfactory. In the near future we will have ROBO-COPS and ROBO everything. Sooner than most people realize.
  #36  
Old 08-01-2020, 03:35 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by manaboutown View Post
Being an LEO must be a very frustrating occupation. You work hard, risking life and limb to arrest violent felons, and the next thing you know you encounter them out on the street again committing more crimes because the court system released them! God bless our LEOs!
Being a LEO could be frustrating? I am a Scorpio and even I get frustrated sometimes. I do not completely believe everything about the Zodiac
  #37  
Old 08-01-2020, 03:36 PM
NoMoSno NoMoSno is online now
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  #38  
Old 08-01-2020, 03:50 PM
Byte1 Byte1 is offline
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Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
The answer probably is that most of the LEOs and the criminals are BOTH recruited from or learn their crime trade in the same (lower) class. Also the military police feed directly into the civilian police. Conclusion : there will ALWAYS be plenty of Police. Only the city, state, or Federal budget limits Police numbers, plenty of available recruits.
"Lower class?" Sounds like something I have heard elitists say. FYI, many COPs today have college degrees. One thing that many are getting right lately, and that is that today's generation needs the police to be babysitters/nannies. It's interesting that instead of condemning criminal behavior, it's always condemnation of the police attempting to do their jobs in impossible circumstances. First it was the mommy that defends bad behavior of her delinquent child in school, and then it's the mommy defending criminal behavior by her basement resident child in his later years. Teacher is the culprit first and then the evil demon cop that had a personal agenda against her poor little innocent basement dweller son.
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  #39  
Old 08-01-2020, 03:55 PM
Byte1 Byte1 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoisR View Post
When have you ever heard of a "good cop" turning in a "bad cop?"

How about a college degree being necessary for even consideration to apply?
Good cops DO turn in bad cops, after other options are tried. You haven't heard of it because it is done quietly or anonymously. That's why they have IAD investigators.

Yes, many police organizations require a college degree. Interesting how some folks can make statements without knowing the facts. Speaking in general, not pointed toward any particular poster.
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  #40  
Old 08-01-2020, 04:22 PM
bakon bakon is offline
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Started my 30th year today. Faced off with just one other officer a group of 50 protesters just a week a go. They came down the six lane road at rush hour and we made sure nobody got to them. Nobody yelled at them . Nobody ran their car through their line. Nobody called them a name or even gave them a dirty look because we had 120 officers blocking every intersection. Just pure luck they stopped next to me and Carl (25 years) and sat down for half hour.
Take your idea and run it up a flag pole. Sing songs. We dont care if you watch us. Cameras been around my entire career . First in car video, then small VHS recorders all the way to everyone having one in their phone for 10years now.

But dont claim to know how to do my job, what is right way or wrong, until you talk a drunk woman into going home...i wont ask you to strap on boots and walk up to a car load of people half you age at 2am when back up is only three minutes away. Thats were all the internet academy police experts will tell you to .....

By all means tell me what the right thing to do is.
  #41  
Old 08-01-2020, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by skarra View Post
Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.
And what would you suggest be done about the civilians who file false reports against police officers?
  #42  
Old 08-01-2020, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by billethkid View Post
175 views.....6 posts.

I suppose this could be viewed as an example of the silent majority.....being silent?

If folks do not participate when anonymous, most certainly can't expect anymore when there is a need to stand and be counted.



I watched the video after it was posted and chose not to comment. Why? Because I was disgusted with the cops bullying and condescending attitude and wanted to let my blood pressure lower a bit before saying anything that might get me in trouble. That young man deserves a big pat on the back, for keeping his cool during an obvious made up reason (we know this, because the driver had already called his mom and said that cops were following him prior to the turn) to pull him over for nothing more than "driving while being a young black male" and the cop trying to get a rise out of him while being on his power trip. The really sad part is that all too many of us white people won't see anything wrong with these cops actions in this incident and yet if it were your kid who was profiled and treated like this (especially if it was a black officer talking to a white kid like was done), you should be outraged, if you're any type of good parent that is. I hope the family wins their lawsuit, solely for the main purpose that they can force the Louisville police department to start properly training their force.
  #43  
Old 08-02-2020, 04:25 AM
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Every profession has it's bad apples, BUT no one should be profiled by the color of their skin, period. This is a tumultuous time to be a LEO. I pray for their safety.
  #44  
Old 08-02-2020, 07:16 AM
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As a retired L.E.O. I feel sad for the haters. I and every other officer who served had people spit, urinate, hit, lie, cry and do whatever they could to degrade, evade or attack us while performing our job. How many of you can say the same? Yet you would denigrate each and every one of us by your ad hominem attacks on the police, all the while supporting the organized campaign to cripple law enforcement in its defense of our nation by leftists and socialists who want the destruction of our country and our way of life. Yes America has flaws, but what country can you name which has more freedoms and more opportunity to succeed by sheer will of the individual.
  #45  
Old 08-02-2020, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by amexsbow View Post
As a retired L.E.O. I feel sad for the haters. I and every other officer who served had people spit, urinate, hit, lie, cry and do whatever they could to degrade, evade or attack us while performing our job. How many of you can say the same? Yet you would denigrate each and every one of us by your ad hominem attacks on the police, all the while supporting the organized campaign to cripple law enforcement in its defense of our nation by leftists and socialists who want the destruction of our country and our way of life. Yes America has flaws, but what country can you name which has more freedoms and more opportunity to succeed by sheer will of the individual.
Thank you for your service. I have never in my 70 years had a "BAD" incident with a law enforcement officer. I have been stopped and ticketed (professionally) and deserved both tickets I have had in total. AND, I have deserved many more. I had one incident on a major highway where my old car threw a piston right out of the engine block and I had two children with me in my car. A state trooper stopped to assist me, saw how the car was useless and offered me his advice. He said for me to take my tags off it and anything else I wanted from the car and let it be towed away to a junk yard. He then gave us a ride to a relative's home ten miles away.
Other than fiction TV, I have never seen any indication of racial bias or police brutality. I am sure that there has been racial bias in law enforcement, but if so the individuals have kept it covered by professionalism, courtesy and kindness. Something else that folks do not take into consideration, but is reality and fact that an individual can be a racist and still be a good citizen. Meaning, being biased does not have to interfere with how one performs their job. In Vietnam, I knew guys that hated the enemy, yet when the enemy was taken prisoner those same guys treated them with complete professionalism. You cannot force a change in one's likes or dislikes, but how one performs his/her job can still be performed in a manner where you would not know the difference. A doctor treats a killer's gunshot wound. He does not allow his anger or hate interfere with his performance. He does just as good a job as he would a child or a priest.
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