Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100526)

..........Anyway, the easiest, least bloody, and best way to prevent a dictatorship is by votes, not bullets.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100530)

That is exactly how Hitler came to power, voted into office by the citizens of Germany. And, once he became the Fuhrer, he enacted gun control laws that removed guns from the hands of the German people and the Jews. We all know what happened to the Jews.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100526)

Actually, I think that it is now about 50 / 50 whether from 2024 on the US will BECOME a dictatorship. And I think that is the likely reason why the last 2 years have shown such a big increase in GUN OWNERSHIP - from 300 million to 400 million. So, I agree about that. And I agree that the Viet Cong rebels fought back with lower-tech battlefield equipment, mostly GUNS. And they used a BOLT-ACTION Mosin-Nagant rifle for sniper use.
..........So, IF (a BIG if) the US has a Dictatorship around 2026, then the rebels should be stacking up on long-range
sniper-type BOLT-ACTION rifles rather than the short-range military-style semi-autos.
..........Anyway, the easiest, least bloody, and best way to prevent a dictatorship is by votes, not bullets.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100351)

Here is an interesting bit of firearm history a friend sent me:

"A hundred and twelve years ago, in 1907...our great grandparents were first able to the semi-auto Winchester Model 1907.
This is a gun they could buy from a Sears catalogue and have delivered via US Post. It was/ is a semi-automatic, high powered centerfire rifle, with detachable, high capacity magazine.
About 400,000 semi-automatic rifles were produced before WW2. Civilians had hundreds of thousands of these for 40 years, while US soldiers were still being issued old fashioned bolt action rifles.
The 1907 fired just as fast as an AR15 or AK47 and the bullet (.351 Winchester) was actually larger than those fired by the more modern looking weapons..
The ONLY functional difference between the 1907 and a controversial and much feared AR15 is the modern black plastic stock.

The semi auto, so-called "assault rifle" is 110 years old. It isnt new in any way.
The semi auto rifle was not a weapon of war. The government MADE IT a weapon of war 40 years after civilians had them.
The semi-auto can be safely owned by civilians. The proof is that literally 3 generations of adults owned and used them responsibly and no one ever even noticed.
Want to fix the horror of mass shootings? Fix the things that have changed in society for the worse in the last 50 years."

As I pointed out earlier, after WWII millions of semi automatic M1 Carbines were sold to the American public with 15 and 30 round magazines. You could buy them from catalogs and gun magazine ads and have them shipped directly to your home by the US Postal Service. Using all the illogic in this thread there should have been hundreds of shootings using the Model 1907 and M1 Carbine. What changed? Society and moral values have changed and not for the good. So easy to blame an inanimate object than to work on correcting the real problem. Gun bans, mental pablum for simple minds.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2100354)

Untrue, although this took more than just a few seconds to check. This story is the #1 story on the entire first page of a google search. Digging just one layer deeper, I found that the AR-15 has a thing called a direct gas impingement used in the cycling and piston and bolt and some other mechanics that I don't even try to understand and don't care about.

What's interesting about it isn't what it is. It's that it was patented in the 1956. It didn't exist for the 50 years of the Winchester 1907's manufacture, until 4 years before the Winchester 1907 was retired. And - it was introduced by Colt, not Winchester.

So no, they're not exactly the same. They don't look the same, they didn't come with the same components, didn't fire the same ammo, didn't have the same weight, didn't have the same thrust, didn't have the same method of (whatever it is that bolts and pistons do).

The only thing they had in common is that they're both semi-automatic rifles.

Originally Posted by Jack58033 (Post 2100372)

The Japanese play violent video games but it does not correlate to gun violence. They make it hard to get guns.They don't have a fraction of the guns we have.

Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2100382)

You note one of many examples of how humans find a way to take an object and subvert it to satisfy a desire the object was never intended for. Two I can think of in my half awake state are 1) Tylenol. The original was much more effective than today's version, but also could easily be broken down to provide a key ingredient for Speed. 2) Cocaine. 100+ years ago, this was in every households' medicine cabinet until society decided it shouldn't be.
In the above two cases, and all the others I have thought about, the "solution" has been to ban or change the object, NOT to expect people to stop subverting the object to fit their needs. This will happen to the semi auto as well eventually. The generation that is so hung up on the 2nd amendment in all its various interpretations is dying out, and the younger folks have better things to do with their time.
People who think they need to closet full of guns to protect them for "The Man" don't realize that they already lost that battle - society has already been molded to fit the fascist model - the 1 or 2% own and control everything, the middle 70% do all the work and get thrown a bone from time to time (that's us), and the rest get blamed for everything and keep the middle group dumb and happy.
All we can do until the day comes when this model falls apart (they all do eventually) is work around the edges to enjoy life.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100561)

That post and especially the last paragraph was very inciteful. Kudos. And to add just a minor point I believe that when Coca-Cola was 1st bottled, it contained cocaine. Maybe that's why there were fewer mass murders then??????

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100530)

That is exactly how Hitler came to power, voted into office by the citizens of Germany. And, once he became the Fuhrer, he enacted gun control laws that removed guns from the hands of the German people and the Jews. We all know what happened to the Jews.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2100534)

List of Roman emperors - Wikipedia

Our Founding Fathers were familiar with Greek and Roman history and could see that if a rotten emperor controlled the military he or she could stay in power but as soon as they lost that connection the military put in a new leader. It happened multiple times in some years.

Year of the Four Emperors - Wikipedia

Year of the Five Emperors - Wikipedia

Barracks emperor - Wikipedia

Our military leaders seem very careful not to get the Army, Navy, etc. involved in politics such as it would lead to so many civil wars like in Rome and sometimes in Ancient Greece.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100583)

Yes, agreed. How people vote determines very important directions taken by people and their countries. You can vote for a dictator or you can vote against them and keep them out of power. My main point is that SOMETHING is brewing up in the US right now. The BIG INCREASE in US GUN OWNERSHIP in the last 2 years has me WORRIED. There is NOT a big increase in deer hunters or target shooters - there is SOMETHING else going on here. And I worry that it is DARK and SINISTER!
..........At the January 6th attempted OVERTHROW of the US government, you could see many flags. One of the most prominent flags had an image of a military-style AR-15-looking rifle. This has become the defacto SYMBOL of the dark proud-boy-type anarchy-oriented sick insurrectionists. Jan 6th PORTENDS a situation where citizens will have to choose between having a DEMOCRACY and NOT a dictatorship - OR having a strict interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and LOVING the proud-boy-anarchist and their SYMBOL of HATE and children's blood.......the AR killing machine.
..........you decide!

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2100593)

Agree!

Here are the 14 lessons I’ve learned from this tragedy. I’m certain tens of millions of conservative patriots see it the exact same way. Wanna bet?

1. Guns aren’t the problem. “Gun Free Zones” are the problem. They are killing fields. They are an open invitation for mentally-deranged criminals and criminally insane madmen to walk in and start shooting. “Gun Free Zone” signs are like a blinking neon sign in Vegas screaming, “Come on in and kill us. We are helpless, defenseless and weak.”

2. Guns didn’t cause this tragedy. But a good guy with a gun sure ended it. An armed border agent killed the bad guy, thereby saving lives. That should be the headline.

3. We need more good guys (and gals) with guns to stop bad guys. Every school needs armed security. There should be only a single point of entry to every school- and a guard must always protect that entrance. All other doors to the school need to be locked and secured.

4. Backing up the armed security at every school should be teachers and/or administrators with guns and professional gun training.

5. How can we afford all this? I’ve argued from day one it was a disastrous decision and tragic mistake to give another $40 billion to Ukraine. We need to worry about America. We could have used that $40 billion here at home. Half of it ($20 billion) should have been used to pay for armed security at every school in America.

6. If we really want to protect children, secure the border. The other half of the Ukraine funding ($20 billion more) should have been used to build and secure the wall on our Southern border. If we’re angry and shocked as a nation about 19 innocent young children dying in that school shooting, shouldn’t we be even more concerned with tens of thousands of American kids dying each year from drug overdoses- with drugs brought through our porous open border. Everything that comes over that border is a threat to America’s children- drugs, human traffickers, child sex traffickers and tons of violent criminals, gang bangers and MS-13 murderers. Why didn’t we use that Ukraine money to save thousands of children’s lives by securing the border?

7. Gun control is never the answer. Gun control is a massive failure. There are far more shootings, violent crimes and murders in big cities with strict gun control than anywhere else. If strict gun control works, why are the streets of cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, New York and Los Angeles such killing fields? The answer is simple: strict gun control never stops criminals. It just leaves the good people defenseless.

8. New gun laws will do nothing to stop crime or mass murders. Why don’t we enforce laws already on the books against violent criminals? Crimes are almost always committed by repeat offenders that District Attorneys allowed back on the streets.

9. Instead of useless new laws, why don’t we make mass murder (the killing of two or more) a DEATH PENALTY crime. If convicted of mass murder, there are no appeals, the convicted mass killer is executed the next day by firing squad. End of story. That’s the way to deter more mass shootings.

10. Investigate Big Pharma for the drugs they pump into young males for depression, anger issues, ADD and mental illness. Virtually every mass killer in recent memory was on these drugs. The side effects of these drugs are suicidal and violent thoughts. Why are we drugging so many male teenagers?

11. Never mention “Defund Police” ever again. Incidents like this prove we need more police, not less.

12. But as much as I love and appreciate police, boy did they fail miserably this time. There are many questions about how the police responded to the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. How could they stand around for an hour while kids were being slaughtered? Police announced they waited so long because they were “afraid to get shot.” Really? If police are afraid to get shot, they should be instantly terminated. That’s their job- to risk their life to protect civilians. And while they refused to enter the school to confront the shooter, they handcuffed, tasered
and pepper sprayed parents who begged them to go in? So, please no more “defund police,” but let’s re-think how we’re hiring and training police. We need heroic macho warriors. Stop trying to make them into politically-correct pansies, poets and social workers.

13. This mass shooting and the poor police response only makes American patriots even more certain it’s up to us to defend ourselves and save our families. We love the police, but we can never count on them. “If it is to be, it is up to me.” I’ll bet more guns will be bought in the coming months by Americans than ever before in history.

14. One final point. Actually, it’s a pledge. Stop trying to take our guns. This isn’t Australia or New Zealand. This is America. You’re never taking our guns. As in never, never, never, EVER. You’ll only take our guns from our cold dead hands. So, drop your demands. You’re wasting your time. You may not know it yet, but you’ve lost the battle.

I repeat- we’re NEVER giving up our guns.


This article looks about right!

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2100604)

You know, the haphazard raising of our youth hasn’t helped the situation much. Columbine wasn’t the first shooting, but it was the first in a very long time. Since 1999, we have had several copy the idea. Klebold and Harris didn’t even use AR 15s because they wear cool back then. However, they did mimic their favorite shoot ‘em up game (Doom” trench coats and all.

If American kids keep getting that garbage pumped through their minds, things will likely get worse. Raising our kids with television and video games that glorify killing may not be the answer and could by chance, contribute to our problems.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2100325)

They had a huge jungle and were very adept at guerrilla warfare. Guerrilla warfare - Wikipedia

History of guerrilla warfare - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2100605)

Well, right idea, but, in my humble opinion, wrong cause.

The rest of the world also watches TV and Movies and plays silent video games. No other country has had one 20 school shootings this year.

But, it is our society, our culture. I agree. Guns are not the problem, they are a symptom and an easy solution for those looking to express their anger, frustration and to get some token of notoriety.

Some think the breakdown in American Society is a result of the Bible being taken out of "our lives". I disagree. I think it is that until around the 1970's single wage earners could make living wage to support their family. Today that is pretty much gone. In most families both parents (or the one parent) have to work. Often far more than 40 hours a week just to get by, no chance of "getting ahead". Prior to the 70's most parents focused on making a better life for their children - that included good work ethic example, some that loved them around all day to give comfort when they needed it, and an optimism that some day they kids would have better live than they did.

For MOST families today, that is not the dream, the dream is now, to be able to buy food and medication. To be able to pay the rent, not have the electricity turned off. And HOPE to god they don't get called in to the school to get the kid and take them home, because that is lost time at work and the chance they won't make it to next pay day - again.

Then add in all the anger and hate spewed by media and people look for someone to blame and which ever side the find closest to their beliefs that latch onto and begin hating the other side.

We USED to be Americans. Now we are one of two sides and it is out patriotic duty (we are told 24 hours a day) to HATE the other side.

That I believe to be the root cause. The loss of hope for a better future.

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2100593)

Agree!

Here are the 14 lessons I’ve learned from this tragedy. I’m certain tens of millions of conservative patriots see it the exact same way. Wanna bet?

1. Guns aren’t the problem. “Gun Free Zones” are the problem. They are killing fields. They are an open invitation for mentally-deranged criminals and criminally insane madmen to walk in and start shooting. “Gun Free Zone” signs are like a blinking neon sign in Vegas screaming, “Come on in and kill us. We are helpless, defenseless and weak.”

2. Guns didn’t cause this tragedy. But a good guy with a gun sure ended it. An armed border agent killed the bad guy, thereby saving lives. That should be the headline.

3. We need more good guys (and gals) with guns to stop bad guys. Every school needs armed security. There should be only a single point of entry to every school- and a guard must always protect that entrance. All other doors to the school need to be locked and secured.

4. Backing up the armed security at every school should be teachers and/or administrators with guns and professional gun training.

5. How can we afford all this? I’ve argued from day one it was a disastrous decision and tragic mistake to give another $40 billion to Ukraine. We need to worry about America. We could have used that $40 billion here at home. Half of it ($20 billion) should have been used to pay for armed security at every school in America.

6. If we really want to protect children, secure the border. The other half of the Ukraine funding ($20 billion more) should have been used to build and secure the wall on our Southern border. If we’re angry and shocked as a nation about 19 innocent young children dying in that school shooting, shouldn’t we be even more concerned with tens of thousands of American kids dying each year from drug overdoses- with drugs brought through our porous open border. Everything that comes over that border is a threat to America’s children- drugs, human traffickers, child sex traffickers and tons of violent criminals, gang bangers and MS-13 murderers. Why didn’t we use that Ukraine money to save thousands of children’s lives by securing the border?

7. Gun control is never the answer. Gun control is a massive failure. There are far more shootings, violent crimes and murders in big cities with strict gun control than anywhere else. If strict gun control works, why are the streets of cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, New York and Los Angeles such killing fields? The answer is simple: strict gun control never stops criminals. It just leaves the good people defenseless.

8. New gun laws will do nothing to stop crime or mass murders. Why don’t we enforce laws already on the books against violent criminals? Crimes are almost always committed by repeat offenders that District Attorneys allowed back on the streets.

9. Instead of useless new laws, why don’t we make mass murder (the killing of two or more) a DEATH PENALTY crime. If convicted of mass murder, there are no appeals, the convicted mass killer is executed the next day by firing squad. End of story. That’s the way to deter more mass shootings.

10. Investigate Big Pharma for the drugs they pump into young males for depression, anger issues, ADD and mental illness. Virtually every mass killer in recent memory was on these drugs. The side effects of these drugs are suicidal and violent thoughts. Why are we drugging so many male teenagers?

11. Never mention “Defund Police” ever again. Incidents like this prove we need more police, not less.

12. But as much as I love and appreciate police, boy did they fail miserably this time. There are many questions about how the police responded to the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. How could they stand around for an hour while kids were being slaughtered? Police announced they waited so long because they were “afraid to get shot.” Really? If police are afraid to get shot, they should be instantly terminated. That’s their job- to risk their life to protect civilians. And while they refused to enter the school to confront the shooter, they handcuffed, tasered
and pepper sprayed parents who begged them to go in? So, please no more “defund police,” but let’s re-think how we’re hiring and training police. We need heroic macho warriors. Stop trying to make them into politically-correct pansies, poets and social workers.

13. This mass shooting and the poor police response only makes American patriots even more certain it’s up to us to defend ourselves and save our families. We love the police, but we can never count on them. “If it is to be, it is up to me.” I’ll bet more guns will be bought in the coming months by Americans than ever before in history.

14. One final point. Actually, it’s a pledge. Stop trying to take our guns. This isn’t Australia or New Zealand. This is America. You’re never taking our guns. As in never, never, never, EVER. You’ll only take our guns from our cold dead hands. So, drop your demands. You’re wasting your time. You may not know it yet, but you’ve lost the battle.

I repeat- we’re NEVER giving up our guns.


This article looks about right!

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2100599)

I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said.

And of them the arming teachers is the one I disagree with most. That is a recipe for disaster in so many ways. Including a mass exodus of teachers, and teachers killing students as a teacher with NO active shooter confrontation experience attempts to stop an adrenaline enraged teenager wielding 2 semi-automatics , by shooting them.

And if good-guys with a gun are the solution, why does the NRA require guns carried by the attendee's? Oh, right that mean old stupid Secret Service wont let them make the meeting safe. Yeah, right that makes sense. The secret service is the bad guy there.

And "defund the police" is maybe the worst comment a DEM ever made. It is a mischaracterization of what was meant. And most people KNOW it, and yes continue to repeat it. Defund the Police was a stupid saying for a great idea. Let police do police work, and stop sending them on domestic violence, mentally ill issue, parking tickets, speeding tickets and all the others BS they are required to do, and are funded to do. They should be focusing on police work, stopping and catching criminals. They should be focusing on stopping shooters. They should NOT be focused on giving out parking tickets and tickets for changing lanes without using your turn signal. That is what was meant - let police do police work, and move some of the funds paying for that work into funding meter-maids and traffic enforcement. Send people that are trained to handle confrontations with the mentally ill, and on and on.

But instead DEFUND THE POLICE one of the more stupid things a DEM ever said because the rallying cry of the opposition. So , n ow instead of making useful changes we can all sit around and argue every time someone bring it up again - out of context.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100630)

And God thinks, "Himmmm maybe dinosaurs WOULD be less violent than a human being with an AR-15 ????????

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100583)

Yes, agreed. How people vote determines very important directions taken by people and their countries. You can vote for a dictator or you can vote against them and keep them out of power. My main point is that SOMETHING is brewing up in the US right now. The BIG INCREASE in US GUN OWNERSHIP in the last 2 years has me WORRIED. There is NOT a big increase in deer hunters or target shooters - there is SOMETHING else going on here. And I worry that it is DARK and SINISTER!
..........At the January 6th attempted OVERTHROW of the US government, you could see many flags. One of the most prominent flags had an image of a military-style AR-15-looking rifle. This has become the defacto SYMBOL of the dark proud-boy-type anarchy-oriented sick insurrectionists. Jan 6th PORTENDS a situation where citizens will have to choose between having a DEMOCRACY and NOT a dictatorship - OR having a strict interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and LOVING the proud-boy-anarchist and their SYMBOL of HATE and children's blood.......the AR killing machine.
..........you decide!

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2100593)

Agree!

Here are the 14 lessons I’ve learned from this tragedy. I’m certain tens of millions of conservative patriots see it the exact same way. Wanna bet?

1. Guns aren’t the problem. “Gun Free Zones” are the problem. They are killing fields. They are an open invitation for mentally-deranged criminals and criminally insane madmen to walk in and start shooting. “Gun Free Zone” signs are like a blinking neon sign in Vegas screaming, “Come on in and kill us. We are helpless, defenseless and weak.”

2. Guns didn’t cause this tragedy. But a good guy with a gun sure ended it. An armed border agent killed the bad guy, thereby saving lives. That should be the headline.

3. We need more good guys (and gals) with guns to stop bad guys. Every school needs armed security. There should be only a single point of entry to every school- and a guard must always protect that entrance. All other doors to the school need to be locked and secured.

4. Backing up the armed security at every school should be teachers and/or administrators with guns and professional gun training.

5. How can we afford all this? I’ve argued from day one it was a disastrous decision and tragic mistake to give another $40 billion to Ukraine. We need to worry about America. We could have used that $40 billion here at home. Half of it ($20 billion) should have been used to pay for armed security at every school in America.

6. If we really want to protect children, secure the border. The other half of the Ukraine funding ($20 billion more) should have been used to build and secure the wall on our Southern border. If we’re angry and shocked as a nation about 19 innocent young children dying in that school shooting, shouldn’t we be even more concerned with tens of thousands of American kids dying each year from drug overdoses- with drugs brought through our porous open border. Everything that comes over that border is a threat to America’s children- drugs, human traffickers, child sex traffickers and tons of violent criminals, gang bangers and MS-13 murderers. Why didn’t we use that Ukraine money to save thousands of children’s lives by securing the border?

7. Gun control is never the answer. Gun control is a massive failure. There are far more shootings, violent crimes and murders in big cities with strict gun control than anywhere else. If strict gun control works, why are the streets of cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, New York and Los Angeles such killing fields? The answer is simple: strict gun control never stops criminals. It just leaves the good people defenseless.

8. New gun laws will do nothing to stop crime or mass murders. Why don’t we enforce laws already on the books against violent criminals? Crimes are almost always committed by repeat offenders that District Attorneys allowed back on the streets.

9. Instead of useless new laws, why don’t we make mass murder (the killing of two or more) a DEATH PENALTY crime. If convicted of mass murder, there are no appeals, the convicted mass killer is executed the next day by firing squad. End of story. That’s the way to deter more mass shootings.

10. Investigate Big Pharma for the drugs they pump into young males for depression, anger issues, ADD and mental illness. Virtually every mass killer in recent memory was on these drugs. The side effects of these drugs are suicidal and violent thoughts. Why are we drugging so many male teenagers?

11. Never mention “Defund Police” ever again. Incidents like this prove we need more police, not less.

12. But as much as I love and appreciate police, boy did they fail miserably this time. There are many questions about how the police responded to the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. How could they stand around for an hour while kids were being slaughtered? Police announced they waited so long because they were “afraid to get shot.” Really? If police are afraid to get shot, they should be instantly terminated. That’s their job- to risk their life to protect civilians. And while they refused to enter the school to confront the shooter, they handcuffed, tasered
and pepper sprayed parents who begged them to go in? So, please no more “defund police,” but let’s re-think how we’re hiring and training police. We need heroic macho warriors. Stop trying to make them into politically-correct pansies, poets and social workers.

13. This mass shooting and the poor police response only makes American patriots even more certain it’s up to us to defend ourselves and save our families. We love the police, but we can never count on them. “If it is to be, it is up to me.” I’ll bet more guns will be bought in the coming months by Americans than ever before in history.

14. One final point. Actually, it’s a pledge. Stop trying to take our guns. This isn’t Australia or New Zealand. This is America. You’re never taking our guns. As in never, never, never, EVER. You’ll only take our guns from our cold dead hands. So, drop your demands. You’re wasting your time. You may not know it yet, but you’ve lost the battle.

I repeat- we’re NEVER giving up our guns.


This article looks about right!

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2100635)

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: "overthrow?" What kind of morons would attempt to overthrow a gov without the use of firearms? Folks need to cut back on viewing some of this main stream media. Too much hysteria being encouraged.

Originally Posted by Kenswing (Post 2100640)

According to our new firearms and tactics expert all you need is a sniper rifle. :1rotfl:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2100605)

Well, right idea, but, in my humble opinion, wrong cause.

The rest of the world also watches TV and Movies and plays silent video games. No other country has had one 20 school shootings this year.

But, it is our society, our culture. I agree. Guns are not the problem, they are a symptom and an easy solution for those looking to express their anger, frustration and to get some token of notoriety.

Some think the breakdown in American Society is a result of the Bible being taken out of "our lives". I disagree. I think it is that until around the 1970's single wage earners could make living wage to support their family. Today that is pretty much gone. In most families both parents (or the one parent) have to work. Often far more than 40 hours a week just to get by, no chance of "getting ahead". Prior to the 70's most parents focused on making a better life for their children - that included good work ethic example, some that loved them around all day to give comfort when they needed it, and an optimism that some day they kids would have better live than they did.

For MOST families today, that is not the dream, the dream is now, to be able to buy food and medication. To be able to pay the rent, not have the electricity turned off. And HOPE to god they don't get called in to the school to get the kid and take them home, because that is lost time at work and the chance they won't make it to next pay day - again.

Then add in all the anger and hate spewed by media and people look for someone to blame and which ever side the find closest to their beliefs that latch onto and begin hating the other side.

We USED to be Americans. Now we are one of two sides and it is out patriotic duty (we are told 24 hours a day) to HATE the other side.

That I believe to be the root cause. The loss of hope for a better future.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2100617)

Mostly agree.

You can say rest of world, but really don’t know, and they don’t have freedom or population of USA. So like my opinion it’s just you’re opinion.

IMO What you get with two party system, us or them, with that system it will never change when power and money involved.

I am for reasonable gun control/magazine control. IMO no high powered rifle (centerfire) should hold more than 4 rounds and no handgun (centerfire) more than 6 rounds.

Actually I don’t see need for anything to hold more than 6 rounds. Including my PCP air rifle. But, that’s my opinion.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100654)

I partly agree. About 1975(and on) things economically started going south in the US (and hope gradually went south). Tax breaks and tax brackets began to favor the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class. Recent tax changes favoring the wealthy 1% did not even throw a bone to lower-class taxpayers. After 1975 the average person ACTUALLY
lost money even if their wages stayed the same - due to loss of spending power, due to inflation. Not until about 2010 did average workers start to get small wage increases that moved them slightly ahead of inflation. And today due to Russian war aggression and Chinese Covid stupidity, the US is, likely, moving toward a DEEP recession and high inflation.
.........Before 1975 parents would always say that the NEXT generation would be better off than the last. After 1975 that could no longer be said! Today the US has the 1st world's most significant wealth disparity by far. US upward mobility is less than the UK. US health care outcomes (like birth fatalities) are ranked about 30th in the world.
........Face it folks........we are NOT the world leader that we were in the 1950s. We just remember it that way - the good old days of true US supremacy.
........Part of the cause of the US today leading the world in Mass murder IS the slow decline and today's disappearance of the middle class. And outsourcing to China to max out profits for greedy corporations was NOT very patriotic. Now we are so stupid that we can't get the parts we need from China to finish building US cars. The US allowed labor Unions to all but disappear. Funny, they seem to work in Germany, where management and the workers cooperate with each other. There are a lot of factors that have weakened the US middle class.
...........Up until recently, the US always was PROUD of its STRONG middle class.....no more. A strong middle class gives a country maximum STABILITY. The weak middle class and unresolved racial issues tear at the fabric of the nation. For further proof of instability look at the HUGE increases in US suicides and drug overdoses. The US has the highest wealth disparity in the world AND the highest, by far, amount of GUNS circulating in Civilian hands, AND WE may have the highest amount of dangerous drugs circulating in society and among young people. It seems LOGICAL that those factors would equate to more MASS MURDERS.
.........And, Oh yes, we DO lead the world, by far, in MASS MURDERS!

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2100635)

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: "overthrow?" What kind of morons would attempt to overthrow a gov without the use of firearms? Folks need to cut back on viewing some of this main stream media. Too much hysteria being encouraged.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100654)

I partly agree. About 1975(and on) things economically started going south in the US (and hope gradually went south). Tax breaks and tax brackets began to favor the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class. Recent tax changes favoring the wealthy 1% did not even throw a bone to lower-class taxpayers. After 1975 the average person ACTUALLY
lost money even if their wages stayed the same - due to loss of spending power, due to inflation. Not until about 2010 did average workers start to get small wage increases that moved them slightly ahead of inflation. And today due to Russian war aggression and Chinese Covid stupidity, the US is, likely, moving toward a DEEP recession and high inflation.
.........Before 1975 parents would always say that the NEXT generation would be better off than the last. After 1975 that could no longer be said! Today the US has the 1st world's most significant wealth disparity by far. US upward mobility is less than the UK. US health care outcomes (like birth fatalities) are ranked about 30th in the world.
........Face it folks........we are NOT the world leader that we were in the 1950s. We just remember it that way - the good old days of true US supremacy.
........Part of the cause of the US today leading the world in Mass murder IS the slow decline and today's disappearance of the middle class. And outsourcing to China to max out profits for greedy corporations was NOT very patriotic. Now we are so stupid that we can't get the parts we need from China to finish building US cars. The US allowed labor Unions to all but disappear. Funny, they seem to work in Germany, where management and the workers cooperate with each other. There are a lot of factors that have weakened the US middle class.
...........Up until recently, the US always was PROUD of its STRONG middle class.....no more. A strong middle class gives a country maximum STABILITY. The weak middle class and unresolved racial issues tear at the fabric of the nation. For further proof of instability look at the HUGE increases in US suicides and drug overdoses. The US has the highest wealth disparity in the world AND the highest, by far, amount of GUNS circulating in Civilian hands, AND WE may have the highest amount of dangerous drugs circulating in society and among young people. It seems LOGICAL that those factors would equate to more MASS MURDERS.
.........And, Oh yes, we DO lead the world, by far, in MASS MURDERS!

Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2100663)

A lot of good points by you and the post you replied to. I'll just add a couple more, hopefully good points. I came from a broken home. Father took off when we were little kids, and we were raised by my mother. 4 kids, one parent who worked 10-12 hrs/day, 6 days a week. Yet we all turned out okay. Why? A big reason was because there was still an infrastructure in our schools to support kids like my brothers, sister, and me. There were counselors who actually knew who I was and who I could see without waiting weeks.
Fast-forward 30 years and there I am, a single parent with a son in High School and starting to get in trouble. I call the school to see if I could talk to a counselor - for 2000 students there is ONE counselor on staff. When I finally do see this poor frazzled guy, we tells me honestly that he has about 5 minutes to devote to each student and if I really care about getting my son help, I need to get him outside help. Luckily, I could afford it - many cannot and are just out of luck.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100678)

...

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2100682)

Making more gun laws is stupid, period.
Stopping the cause is the idea. The cause is PEOPLE, not guns. Take the gun away or limit it all you want, but all you will do is build your own ego, not protect anyone. As a matter of fact, more people are save than murdered in this country by guns. Over a million last year were saved by some good citizen with a gun. Take away the gang murders in the main cities and our country will have the least amount of gun related murders in the world.....or close to it. Any gun laws you make in the country will only make murders worse, not better. Why? Because then the good guys will be restricted/ hands tied and won't be able to keep the stats down. The bad guys are not going to worry about breaking a gun related law when they plan to break the MURDER law.
You will NEVER in our lifetime or our grandkids lifetime ever be able to get rid of guns in our country, not matter what drug induced fantasy you might dream up. It's kind of like expecting to stop DUIs by getting rid of the cars. They tried getting rid of alcohol and we all know how that worked out. Guns can be printed out and they won't have a serial number to trace.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2100673)

Wow you have a negative view of the US. Not perfect but still think we are the greatest country in the world.

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2100682)

Making more gun laws is stupid, period.
Stopping the cause is the idea. The cause is PEOPLE, not guns. Take the gun away or limit it all you want, but all you will do is build your own ego, not protect anyone. As a matter of fact, more people are save than murdered in this country by guns. Over a million last year were saved by some good citizen with a gun. Take away the gang murders in the main cities and our country will have the least amount of gun related murders in the world.....or close to it. Any gun laws you make in the country will only make murders worse, not better. Why? Because then the good guys will be restricted/ hands tied and won't be able to keep the stats down. The bad guys are not going to worry about breaking a gun related law when they plan to break the MURDER law.
You will NEVER in our lifetime or our grandkids lifetime ever be able to get rid of guns in our country, not matter what drug induced fantasy you might dream up. It's kind of like expecting to stop DUIs by getting rid of the cars. They tried getting rid of alcohol and we all know how that worked out. Guns can be printed out and they won't have a serial number to trace.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100703)

I just want to be on record as saying that it does not HAVE to be this way. And it WILL get worse. And I don't want to hear the childish propaganda about "a good guy with a gun " and that "slippery slope" sing-song crap!

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100703)

Not very nice to say that I am on a "drug-induced " fantasy. I would NEVER, never say that about you or anyone on TOTV. I am NOT for taking away GUNS designed for hunting, targets, or home protection. I am against the NRA and greedy manufacturers that have (through propaganda) moved shooters AWAY from sportsman-type rifles and TOWARD selling weapons of WAR to CIVILIANS. Think about that........it makes no sense.......it is a CON JOB by the manufacturers and the NRA. They make the profits and the average people in America get shot buying groceries and their children die and bleed at school.
........I would rather live with a bolt action to defend my home than have excessive weapons of WAR circulating in society. But, I know it is too late. I just want to be on record as saying that it does not HAVE to be this way. And it WILL get worse. And I don't want to hear the childish propaganda about "a good guy with a gun " and that "slippery slope" sing-song crap!

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 2100708)

"Weapons of war" are fully automatic weapons. The vast majority of firearms are semi-automatic. Big difference and a difference that is lost on apparently most people. While it is possible to own a fully automatic weapon (typically collectors), there are a lot of hoops to jump through including approval by the Federal Government. It is a common mistake to assume your average Joe can buy an automatic weapon - he can't. Stop calling the firearms that people can actually buy "weapons of war" - they are not and it is disingenuous to say so.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100722)

Actually, ALL semi-automatics can be EASILY modified to fully automatic. And they are closer to Man-killers or weapons of war than a bolt-action, lever, or pump-action deer hunter.