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GATORBILL66 05-26-2022 10:11 AM

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We need tougher penalties for all crimes including the death penalty for murder,

Madelaine Amee 05-26-2022 10:11 AM

I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

spd2918 05-26-2022 10:13 AM

The above are just mass shootings from 1996 to 2021. We can see this happens in other countries, some with VERY strict gun laws.

Let's not pretend taking guns from law abiding citizens will change what terrorists, criminals, or nutjobs do.

At least in the US there is a good chance a good guy will stop the violence with his own firearm. Like the Border Patrol Agent did in Texas.

spd2918 05-26-2022 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 2099204)
I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

I would like to see your source for this. Mi e came from Timeline of Worldwide School and Mass Shootings

Rules at the venue or for insurance.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr 05-26-2022 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2098795)
Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.

Exactly. That along with the sad state of our mental health system and the HIPPAA laws that prevent agencies from being informed of people with mental illness.

Madelaine Amee 05-26-2022 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd2918 (Post 2099206)
The above are just mass shootings from 1996 to 2021. We can see this happens in other countries, some with VERY strict gun laws.

Let's not pretend taking guns from law abiding citizens will change what terrorists, criminals, or nutjobs do.

At least in the US there is a good chance a good guy will stop the violence with his own firearm. Like the Border Patrol Agent did in Texas.

Just take the assault weapons, nobody wants the guns from law-abiding citizens. By the way, you have way too much time on your hands - takes a long time to do this much research.

jebartle 05-26-2022 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GATORBILL66 (Post 2099203)
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We need tougher penalties for all crimes including the death penalty for murder,

Hear this quote frequently, just wondering if the GUN was not readily available, and time was given to the mad person, would mass killing happen, maybe not.

Worldseries27 05-26-2022 10:37 AM

Where there's a will, theres a way
 
A hypothetical president of america could
1. Summon all the governors of all 50 states to a conference proposing to pass legislation to subsidize their armed national guards to protect the school children employing metal detectors and other technology.
2. He could issue executive orders to make it so.
So why not?

Trayderjoe 05-26-2022 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 2099204)
I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

Assuming this to be true, the venue could choose to make the area a gun free zone. While there are specific areas in which guns are prohibited by law (federal buildings-even the parking lot of the post office, schools, etc.), any business can choose to make their area "gun free". By the by, most (I am hesitant to say all without the facts) gun retailers require any handgun or rifle to be unloaded and encased before entering their business.

Sarah_W 05-26-2022 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe (Post 2099214)
Assuming this to be true, the venue could choose to make the area a gun free zone. While there are specific areas in which guns are prohibited by law (federal buildings-even the parking lot of the post office, schools, etc.), any business can choose to make their area "gun free". By the by, most (I am hesitant to say all without the facts) gun retailers require any handgun or rifle to be unloaded and encased before entering their business.

I believe the reason it is a gun free zone is due to a Secret Service requirement since Trump will be speaking. I think all venues where current and former Presidents speak are gun free zones. I've been to NRA events in the past and was not required to leave my firearm or have it unloaded.

As to gun stores, the policies vary. Some allow you have have your loaded firearm on your person if you have a CCW permit. Others don't allow them to be uncased and require them to be unloaded and still others have no requirement at all.

Taltarzac725 05-26-2022 10:58 AM

Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia

This law expired quite a ways back.

Found this interesting--

Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence - Wikipedia

Trayderjoe 05-26-2022 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 2099211)
Just take the assault weapons, nobody wants the guns from law-abiding citizens. By the way, you have way too much time on your hands - takes a long time to do this much research.

Again, what are assault weapons? What makes them an "assault weapon"? Are you aware that an AR style rifle and a semi-automatic handgun have the same rate of fire (i.e. one trigger pull equals one round of ammunition expended)?

So which guns do you want to confiscate from law abiding citizens? Are we now including semi-automatic handguns as banned weapons (data also shows handguns are used FAR more frequently in "mass shooting" events). Are you willing to ban bodyguards from carrying these guns, or do richer people have the right to protection that people in lower income levels can't afford? What will be the penalty for people who possess these "banned guns" and will the penalties be applied absolutely? If we can apply these new laws absolutely, then what will be changed, since many current laws are falling by the wayside? Why was Darrell Brooks allowed to remain on the streets? If you don't remember him, he was the person arrested for the Waukesha Christmas Parade tragedy (link). Is it remotely possible that if offenders like these find themselves in jail and not kicked back on the streets before the paperwork is done, there might be a decrease in violent crime? Since criminals don't seem to care about current laws, who do you think that new laws will impact the most, law abiding citizens or criminals?

Trayderjoe 05-26-2022 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah_W (Post 2099216)
I believe the reason it is a gun free zone is due to a Secret Service requirement since Trump will be speaking. I think all venues where current and former Presidents speak are gun free zones. I've been to NRA events in the past and was not required to leave my firearm or have it unloaded.

As to gun stores, the policies vary. Some allow you have have your loaded firearm on your person if you have a CCW permit. Others don't allow them to be uncased and require them to be unloaded and still others have no requirement at all.

Thank you. I forgot that President Trump will be there, so that in and of itself would be a reason for the gun ban as you indicated. Of course, the venue can make that designation as well. On a side note, I have seen a doctor's office with a posting on the doors that firearms were prohibited.

Taltarzac725 05-26-2022 11:15 AM

What is a '''Red Flag law'''—a hope for bipartisan reform on gun control | Fortune

This is being discussed right now.

Quote:

A red-flag law is shorthand for a type of gun legislation that grants law enforcement the authority to temporarily take guns away from someone who exhibits concerning behavior. That red-flag behavior could include a known gun owner issuing specific threats to do harm or demonstrating signs of suffering serious mental illness.

MollyJo 05-26-2022 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2098795)
Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.

Right. They will not dishonor their families. The life lessons begin at birth…

jswirs 05-26-2022 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fran from MI (Post 2098942)
If you can list for me the number of "whack jobs" that used a car to mow down 8-10 year old kids that numbers more than 0, I will consider your argument. Schools have become the target for "whack jobs" over the last 10 years.

In this case an 18 year old with no prior mental health issues buys 2 Assault Rifles with high capacity magazines LEGALLY. Can anyone explain to me what 18 year old has a need for such guns?

Now we hear Texas saying that they are going to commit more money for mental health (I guess for the survivors?) and are going to "harden their schools" by allowing Teachers to have guns. I guess this means teachers will be allowed to have an AR-15 tucked between their legs since these attacks typically happen with high capacity magazines and sometimes even some body armor. Does that really sound like it makes sense? It wasn't long ago that the push was on for Armed Guards in every school district. I guess once the noise settled down, they realized there wasn't enough money to do that.

Does Social Media play a part--absolutely. Does mental health play a part-absolutely. Does the easy access to high powered, high capacity guns play a part-ABSOLUTELY. Had this kid just had rifle used for hunting, he could not have killed as many 10 year olds, if any.

This is a multi faceted problem that requires tackling ALL of those issues together, a little at a time, but fixing any 1 of them will not do it.

But you did not mention who plays the most important part... PARENTS.

Bellavita 05-26-2022 11:22 AM

Do you support background checks or just let anyone anytime get a gun like an AK 30 round clip?


Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2098803)
There was a study done a few years back regarding incidents such as this. I don't recall the methodology used but the conclusion was that well over HALF of such crimes are "copycat". And with the endless and exhaustive "coverage", which often tends toward the maudlin or even the hysterical, it is easy to see how it could influence some person not all that solid mentally, to try to imitate it or even do it one (or more) better.

There is another effect of such coverage, one that has been proven innumerable times. Every such incident is accompanied by an endless parade of officials calling for increased gun control. They, too, tend toward the maudlin or the hysterical. But the EFFECT is that such overdramatization is a direct cause of vastly increased gun sales. In 2021 alone, something like 43 MILLION new guns were sold to private citizens in America.

Maybe its time for a little common sense. Hysteria just doesn't seem to work all that well.


Sarah_W 05-26-2022 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellavita (Post 2099230)
Do you support background checks or just let anyone anytime get a gun like an AK 30 round clip?

An "AK 30 round clip" is not a gun, so the question is impossible to answer.

spd2918 05-26-2022 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 2099211)
Just take the assault weapons, nobody wants the guns from law-abiding citizens. By the way, you have way too much time on your hands - takes a long time to do this much research.

The problem is the controlling political class will call everything an assault weapon. A real assault weapon is a machine gun (fully automatic) and I'm probably correct in saying no US school shooting involved one. I own an AR15 derivative. It is not full auto. It is difficult to own a full auto assault weapon. Special rules apply very few people have them.

I didn't do much research. I did, however, looked some things up and did not knee jerk agree with what our horrible mass media pumps out. Our news is trash- do your own research and use multiple sources.

Sarah_W 05-26-2022 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy (Post 2099013)
School shootings seem to have two components..... The first is a weird kid who has been bullied. The second is semi automatic AR-15s, the mass shooters'' weapon of choice. Both those things are almost always present.

Schools have to pay more attention to bullying...... parents have to watch for signs that their kid is being bullied too, and parents need to teach their kids not to bully other kids.

As for the AR-15s..... this country is so obsessed with guns, and misinterpreting the 2nd amendment, I guess thoughts and prayers is the only action that will be taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proveone (Post 2099050)
Mr. "Know it all" as usual. Your opinion. Not based by logic or reason. We live in a country where there are more guns than people. More guns than motor vehicles. Second Amendment stated regulated militia but this country's guns are not regulated. No one needs an AR 15 assault weapon unless you are in the military at war. Your "two cents" is now worth less than a penny!

Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

I mean no disrespect regarding the two posts I highlighted above. There were several to choose from that are factually inaccurate and typify much of the rhetoric today. The majority of people screaming for more gun control are not knowledgeable about firearms.

The fact of the matter is, the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for school shooters. The handgun is used 10 times more often. As a general note, it doesn't even rank in the top ten for weapons of straight out murder. AR style rifles account for an average of 17 murders over the past ten years. Blunt objects such as hammers and bats are used more often. The common denominator with school shooters are they are individuals who have been traumatized, bullied, marginalized, etc.



Some people believe AR stands for Assault Rifle. It does not. The AR line of firearms were manufactured by Armalite Rifles.
The AR has been around since the 1950's. Today it is popular with hunters and sport shooters alike. The AR does seem to frighten people who don't know anything about guns, whereas the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't bother them. The fact is, they both fire the .223/5.56 round with the same capacity magazines, at the same rate of fire which is one round for one trigger pull. The AR is a scary black rifle and the Ruger looks like Grandpa's pickup gun in his gun rack.

The second quoted post above calls the AR and assault weapon and considers it a weapon of war. Neither is true. The military version of the civilian AR is the M-16, a fully automatic rifle. The AR is not fully automatic. Nobody has a definition of assault rifle. It is a term used to frighten people. Never has the US soldier carried an AR-15 into battle. Our soldiers carry the M-16, among others.

The problem is not just that the average citizens doesn't know the facts, the problem is even bigger because many of our politicians don't know the facts, or conveniently twist the facts to suit their agenda and that is a bigger problem still. In my opinion, Legislators should have mandatory education on the important issues they draft laws to govern. Within the United States we have over 300,000 laws related to firearms. As noted, many are not enforced. That is a huge problem. Fun fact: Nobody knows how many laws there are in total in the US. That seems like a system out of control.

It is disturbing to me how little the average American knows about our freedom documents and the reasons our Founding Fathers created this Constitutional Republic of the people and for the people. In my personal library I have over 70 books on this subject. The oldest printed in 1785, Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. The very dictionary our Founding Fathers used to write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Addressing the second quoted post above I'll limit this to the 2nd Amendment. There is history to the Bill of Rights but I'll save that for another discussion. We shall use the text as it currently appears.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second quoted post above erroneously connects some imaginary dots that the guns of the militia should be regulated and our country does not regulate guns. Both assertions are false. First, there are many regulations on guns, at the Federal and State levels. The CZ Shadow 9mm handgun is one of my favorites. Try buying one in California. Hint: You can't buy a new CZ Shadow 2 because it is not on CA "approved roster of handguns".

Let's break down the second amendment. "A well regulated militia"...the definition of a militia in 1787 "the part of the community trained to martial exercise." The militia should be well regulated. The definition of "regulate" was to "direct". Therefore, another way of saying the first portion is "A well directed part of the community trained to martial exercise". The definition of "martial" is "war like".

"Being necessary for the security of a free State". This portion is very basic. There were 13 states at the time of the writing of our Constitution. The very much valued their freedom and intended to retain the freedom they fought 8 bloody years for.

"The right of the People to keep and bear Arms". So many on the left of center seem to not understand this. What is the Right? To keep and bear arms. To keep Arms means to hold and keep in custody. To bear arms means to carry arms. Who owns that Right? The People, not the State and not the militia as an entity, but the People. Arms means armaments as in armor for defense and weapons for offense.

"Shall not be infringed". Infringe means to violate, to destroy, to hinder.

Our Founding Fathers feared and did not favor a standing army. They had just won their independence fighting the British Regulars, the standing army of Britain. When the British moved to disarm the Americans on April 19, 1775 at Lexington and Concord, it was not George Washington's army who met them. It was the militias of that area. Bakers, farmers, blacksmiths, shop keepers, etc. stood firm against the most feared military of their time and refused to surrender their weapons.

Today our media demonizes the word militia. it is easy to understand why. The American citizen is actually the largest armed force in the world. There are many who wish to destroy that. It begins with undermining our Rights, infringing on our Rights, and taking away our Rights.


To the school shootings and other mass shootings. Prior to the internet, mass shootings were very rare. It would be interesting to track the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings. Young people have been kept isolated for the past two years due to a disease that is 99.6% survivable. Young people spent and inordinate amount of time on social media platforms. Touching another human being is being replaced with keypads. Looking another human being in the eye and reading their body language as been replaced by a monitor. Netflix is full of violent movies and rarely post up a comedy or romance. Take a young man, bully him online, keep him isolated so he doesn't know his self worth, fail to instill morals and then let him binge watch John Wick movies and play hour upon hour of Call of Duty. The outcome is predictable. There will be more mass killings by mentally ill people. We are doing nothing to identify them and treat them. Many want to blame the instrument instead of the societal failings of our culture. The list of reasons for killing someone or many is actually a pretty short list. Mass shooters are particularly mentally ill. I suspect in their mind being famous or infamous is one in the same. Their name will be known. I will say that predators do measure Risk versus Reward. It should come as no surprise that they choose Gun Free Zones to inflict as much carnage as they can before they are stopped.

Note: I had plenty of links for citations I listed above, but being a new poster here it would not post.

jswirs 05-26-2022 11:32 AM

Parents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fran from MI (Post 2098942)
If you can list for me the number of "whack jobs" that used a car to mow down 8-10 year old kids that numbers more than 0, I will consider your argument. Schools have become the target for "whack jobs" over the last 10 years.

In this case an 18 year old with no prior mental health issues buys 2 Assault Rifles with high capacity magazines LEGALLY. Can anyone explain to me what 18 year old has a need for such guns?

Now we hear Texas saying that they are going to commit more money for mental health (I guess for the survivors?) and are going to "harden their schools" by allowing Teachers to have guns. I guess this means teachers will be allowed to have an AR-15 tucked between their legs since these attacks typically happen with high capacity magazines and sometimes even some body armor. Does that really sound like it makes sense? It wasn't long ago that the push was on for Armed Guards in every school district. I guess once the noise settled down, they realized there wasn't enough money to do that.

Does Social Media play a part--absolutely. Does mental health play a part-absolutely. Does the easy access to high powered, high capacity guns play a part-ABSOLUTELY. Had this kid just had rifle used for hunting, he could not have killed as many 10 year olds, if any.

This is a multi faceted problem that requires tackling ALL of those issues together, a little at a time, but fixing any 1 of them will not do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eg_cruz (Post 2098993)
Littleton shooters lived with both parents



Ok, but does that mean the parents did their due diligence with these children? Did the parents get involved with the children's school, and have the kids get involved with sports, etc., and did the children feel loved? Just because children live with both parents does not mean those parents were involved enough in their children's lives to make a difference.

Keefelane66 05-26-2022 11:36 AM

As events unfold seems that even with a SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER FAILURE TO CONFRONT and try to stop Murderer Local Sheriff's we're ineffective and needed to wait between 40 to 60 minutes for a tactical unit from Border Patrol to confront and take down, MURDERER. Families arrived a school before Tactical units arrived!

Two Bills 05-26-2022 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2099115)
Nope

Double BS.

Total nonsense.
UK is way down the list on world crime, and last school shooting was 1996.
Then guns were banned.
Gun crime now is mainly drug gangs killing each other, which as far as majority of population is concerned, save a lot of money on paperwork, and feeding them in prison.

Keefelane66 05-26-2022 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe (Post 2099224)
Thank you. I forgot that President Trump will be there, so that in and of itself would be a reason for the gun ban as you indicated. Of course, the venue can make that designation as well. On a side note, I have seen a doctor's office with a posting on the doors that firearms were prohibited.

Weapons are PROHIBITED at all NRA CONVENTIONS!

Caymus 05-26-2022 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keefelane66 (Post 2099238)
As events unfold seems that even with a SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER FAILURE TO CONFRONT and try to stop Murderer Local Sheriff's we're ineffective and needed to wait between 40 to 60 minutes for a tactical unit from Border Patrol to confront and take down, MURDERER. Families arrived a school before Tactical units arrived!

I wondered why the Border Patrol was involved.

ThirdOfFive 05-26-2022 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 2099204)
I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the NRA meeting being held in Orlando this week (I believe) is a GUN FREE ZONE

So why do you think that might be? If they believe guns are safe and everyone should have one, why not at their annual parade?

I'm pretty sure it is not because the NRA people might be carrying but because of the possibility of anti-gun crazies disrupting things. There are some pretty fringy people in Orlando.

I've attended several pro-Second Amendment rallies. One in particular that I recall was held on the grounds of the State Capitol Building in St. Paul, Minnesota. It was sponsored and organized by the NRA, which also had several display booths. It was attended by about 3,000 pro-Second Amendment folks, and most of us were armed. Many openly (open carry is legal in Minnesota). There were some pretty well-known dignitaries present as well: a Congressman and several Minnesota State Legislative members.

Oh--and there were cops there too. Four in total. Three of them, Minnesota State Troopers, were stationed on the sidewalk ringing the rally, facing AWAY from it, on the watch for demonstrators (who never showed up). The fourth, a uniformed St. Paul cop, was present with the attendees, but he was spending his time chatting, looking at exhibits, and generally having as good a time as the rest of us.

The cops knew where the danger was, and it wasn't from the 3,000 or so armed rally attendees but from the nutjobs who might try to disrupt things. My guess it is the same in Orlando.

Taltarzac725 05-26-2022 11:51 AM

Capgras_delusion
 
Probably patients with this you would not want having access to any kind of firearm. Quite a Red Flag situation.

Capgras delusion - Wikipedia

jswirs 05-26-2022 11:54 AM

Thank you!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah_W (Post 2099233)
Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

I mean no disrespect regarding the two posts I highlighted above. There were several to choose from that are factually inaccurate and typify much of the rhetoric today. The majority of people screaming for more gun control are not knowledgeable about firearms.

The fact of the matter is, the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for school shooters. The handgun is used 10 times more often. As a general note, it doesn't even rank in the top ten for weapons of straight out murder. AR style rifles account for an average of 17 murders over the past ten years. Blunt objects such as hammers and bats are used more often. The common denominator with school shooters are they are individuals who have been traumatized, bullied, marginalized, etc.



Some people believe AR stands for Assault Rifle. It does not. The AR line of firearms were manufactured by Armalite Rifles.
The AR has been around since the 1950's. Today it is popular with hunters and sport shooters alike. The AR does seem to frighten people who don't know anything about guns, whereas the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't bother them. The fact is, they both fire the .223/5.56 round with the same capacity magazines, at the same rate of fire which is one round for one trigger pull. The AR is a scary black rifle and the Ruger looks like Grandpa's pickup gun in his gun rack.

The second quoted post above calls the AR and assault weapon and considers it a weapon of war. Neither is true. The military version of the civilian AR is the M-16, a fully automatic rifle. The AR is not fully automatic. Nobody has a definition of assault rifle. It is a term used to frighten people. Never has the US soldier carried an AR-15 into battle. Our soldiers carry the M-16, among others.

The problem is not just that the average citizens doesn't know the facts, the problem is even bigger because many of our politicians don't know the facts, or conveniently twist the facts to suit their agenda and that is a bigger problem still. In my opinion, Legislators should have mandatory education on the important issues they draft laws to govern. Within the United States we have over 300,000 laws related to firearms. As noted, many are not enforced. That is a huge problem. Fun fact: Nobody knows how many laws there are in total in the US. That seems like a system out of control.

It is disturbing to me how little the average American knows about our freedom documents and the reasons our Founding Fathers created this Constitutional Republic of the people and for the people. In my personal library I have over 70 books on this subject. The oldest printed in 1785, Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. The very dictionary our Founding Fathers used to write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Addressing the second quoted post above I'll limit this to the 2nd Amendment. There is history to the Bill of Rights but I'll save that for another discussion. We shall use the text as it currently appears.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second quoted post above erroneously connects some imaginary dots that the guns of the militia should be regulated and our country does not regulate guns. Both assertions are false. First, there are many regulations on guns, at the Federal and State levels. The CZ Shadow 9mm handgun is one of my favorites. Try buying one in California. Hint: You can't buy a new CZ Shadow 2 because it is not on CA "approved roster of handguns".

Let's break down the second amendment. "A well regulated militia"...the definition of a militia in 1787 "the part of the community trained to martial exercise." The militia should be well regulated. The definition of "regulate" was to "direct". Therefore, another way of saying the first portion is "A well directed part of the community trained to martial exercise". The definition of "martial" is "war like".

"Being necessary for the security of a free State". This portion is very basic. There were 13 states at the time of the writing of our Constitution. The very much valued their freedom and intended to retain the freedom they fought 8 bloody years for.

"The right of the People to keep and bear Arms". So many on the left of center seem to not understand this. What is the Right? To keep and bear arms. To keep Arms means to hold and keep in custody. To bear arms means to carry arms. Who owns that Right? The People, not the State and not the militia as an entity, but the People. Arms means armaments as in armor for defense and weapons for offense.

"Shall not be infringed". Infringe means to violate, to destroy, to hinder.

Our Founding Fathers feared and did not favor a standing army. They had just won their independence fighting the British Regulars, the standing army of Britain. When the British moved to disarm the Americans on April 19, 1775 at Lexington and Concord, it was not George Washington's army who met them. It was the militias of that area. Bakers, farmers, blacksmiths, shop keepers, etc. stood firm against the most feared military of their time and refused to surrender their weapons.

Today our media demonizes the word militia. it is easy to understand why. The American citizen is actually the largest armed force in the world. There are many who wish to destroy that. It begins with undermining our Rights, infringing on our Rights, and taking away our Rights.


To the school shootings and other mass shootings. Prior to the internet, mass shootings were very rare. It would be interesting to track the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings. Young people have been kept isolated for the past two years due to a disease that is 99.6% survivable. Young people spent and inordinate amount of time on social media platforms. Touching another human being is being replaced with keypads. Looking another human being in the eye and reading their body language as been replaced by a monitor. Netflix is full of violent movies and rarely post up a comedy or romance. Take a young man, bully him online, keep him isolated so he doesn't know his self worth, fail to instill morals and then let him binge watch John Wick movies and play hour upon hour of Call of Duty. The outcome is predictable. There will be more mass killings by mentally ill people. We are doing nothing to identify them and treat them. Many want to blame the instrument instead of the societal failings of our culture. The list of reasons for killing someone or many is actually a pretty short list. Mass shooters are particularly mentally ill. I suspect in their mind being famous or infamous is one in the same. Their name will be known. I will say that predators do measure Risk versus Reward. It should come as no surprise that they choose Gun Free Zones to inflict as much carnage as they can before they are stopped.

Note: I had plenty of links for citations I listed above, but being a new poster here it would not post.

All so very well said, and so very true. I THANK YOU, SARAH, SO VERY MUCH.

ThirdOfFive 05-26-2022 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 2099239)
Double BS.

Total nonsense.
UK is way down the list on world crime, and last school shooting was 1996.
Then guns were banned.
Gun crime now is mainly drug gangs killing each other, which as far as majority of population is concerned, save a lot of money on paperwork, and feeding them in prison.

Bingo! I certainly don't see gang members killing each other as a negative thing.

rogerk 05-26-2022 11:57 AM

More gun regulations will not change the outcome. Enforce the laws on the books. Switzerland has one of the lowest murder rates. They also require every man and woman to own a gun and know how to use it. Now that might be an interesting idea. Why do most mass shootings occur in gun free zones? Something to think about.

Trayderjoe 05-26-2022 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keefelane66 (Post 2099240)
Weapons are PROHIBITED at all NRA CONVENTIONS!

Well this was a rumor that even Snopes flagged as false back in 2016 (link).

Additionally, here is the NRA firearms policy (link). Can they be banned? Yes as in this case with President Trump attending (and in 2018 when Vice President Pence gave a speech).

Trayderjoe 05-26-2022 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah_W (Post 2099233)
Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

I mean no disrespect regarding the two posts I highlighted above. There were several to choose from that are factually inaccurate and typify much of the rhetoric today. The majority of people screaming for more gun control are not knowledgeable about firearms.

The fact of the matter is, the AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for school shooters. The handgun is used 10 times more often. As a general note, it doesn't even rank in the top ten for weapons of straight out murder. AR style rifles account for an average of 17 murders over the past ten years. Blunt objects such as hammers and bats are used more often. The common denominator with school shooters are they are individuals who have been traumatized, bullied, marginalized, etc.



Some people believe AR stands for Assault Rifle. It does not. The AR line of firearms were manufactured by Armalite Rifles.
The AR has been around since the 1950's. Today it is popular with hunters and sport shooters alike. The AR does seem to frighten people who don't know anything about guns, whereas the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't bother them. The fact is, they both fire the .223/5.56 round with the same capacity magazines, at the same rate of fire which is one round for one trigger pull. The AR is a scary black rifle and the Ruger looks like Grandpa's pickup gun in his gun rack.

The second quoted post above calls the AR and assault weapon and considers it a weapon of war. Neither is true. The military version of the civilian AR is the M-16, a fully automatic rifle. The AR is not fully automatic. Nobody has a definition of assault rifle. It is a term used to frighten people. Never has the US soldier carried an AR-15 into battle. Our soldiers carry the M-16, among others.

The problem is not just that the average citizens doesn't know the facts, the problem is even bigger because many of our politicians don't know the facts, or conveniently twist the facts to suit their agenda and that is a bigger problem still. In my opinion, Legislators should have mandatory education on the important issues they draft laws to govern. Within the United States we have over 300,000 laws related to firearms. As noted, many are not enforced. That is a huge problem. Fun fact: Nobody knows how many laws there are in total in the US. That seems like a system out of control.

It is disturbing to me how little the average American knows about our freedom documents and the reasons our Founding Fathers created this Constitutional Republic of the people and for the people. In my personal library I have over 70 books on this subject. The oldest printed in 1785, Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. The very dictionary our Founding Fathers used to write the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Addressing the second quoted post above I'll limit this to the 2nd Amendment. There is history to the Bill of Rights but I'll save that for another discussion. We shall use the text as it currently appears.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The second quoted post above erroneously connects some imaginary dots that the guns of the militia should be regulated and our country does not regulate guns. Both assertions are false. First, there are many regulations on guns, at the Federal and State levels. The CZ Shadow 9mm handgun is one of my favorites. Try buying one in California. Hint: You can't buy a new CZ Shadow 2 because it is not on CA "approved roster of handguns".

Let's break down the second amendment. "A well regulated militia"...the definition of a militia in 1787 "the part of the community trained to martial exercise." The militia should be well regulated. The definition of "regulate" was to "direct". Therefore, another way of saying the first portion is "A well directed part of the community trained to martial exercise". The definition of "martial" is "war like".

"Being necessary for the security of a free State". This portion is very basic. There were 13 states at the time of the writing of our Constitution. The very much valued their freedom and intended to retain the freedom they fought 8 bloody years for.

"The right of the People to keep and bear Arms". So many on the left of center seem to not understand this. What is the Right? To keep and bear arms. To keep Arms means to hold and keep in custody. To bear arms means to carry arms. Who owns that Right? The People, not the State and not the militia as an entity, but the People. Arms means armaments as in armor for defense and weapons for offense.

"Shall not be infringed". Infringe means to violate, to destroy, to hinder.

Our Founding Fathers feared and did not favor a standing army. They had just won their independence fighting the British Regulars, the standing army of Britain. When the British moved to disarm the Americans on April 19, 1775 at Lexington and Concord, it was not George Washington's army who met them. It was the militias of that area. Bakers, farmers, blacksmiths, shop keepers, etc. stood firm against the most feared military of their time and refused to surrender their weapons.

Today our media demonizes the word militia. it is easy to understand why. The American citizen is actually the largest armed force in the world. There are many who wish to destroy that. It begins with undermining our Rights, infringing on our Rights, and taking away our Rights.


To the school shootings and other mass shootings. Prior to the internet, mass shootings were very rare. It would be interesting to track the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings. Young people have been kept isolated for the past two years due to a disease that is 99.6% survivable. Young people spent and inordinate amount of time on social media platforms. Touching another human being is being replaced with keypads. Looking another human being in the eye and reading their body language as been replaced by a monitor. Netflix is full of violent movies and rarely post up a comedy or romance. Take a young man, bully him online, keep him isolated so he doesn't know his self worth, fail to instill morals and then let him binge watch John Wick movies and play hour upon hour of Call of Duty. The outcome is predictable. There will be more mass killings by mentally ill people. We are doing nothing to identify them and treat them. Many want to blame the instrument instead of the societal failings of our culture. The list of reasons for killing someone or many is actually a pretty short list. Mass shooters are particularly mentally ill. I suspect in their mind being famous or infamous is one in the same. Their name will be known. I will say that predators do measure Risk versus Reward. It should come as no surprise that they choose Gun Free Zones to inflict as much carnage as they can before they are stopped.

Note: I had plenty of links for citations I listed above, but being a new poster here it would not post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jswirs (Post 2099247)
All so very well said, and so very true. I THANK YOU, SARAH, SO VERY MUCH.

I'd like to add my thanks as well.

ThirdOfFive 05-26-2022 12:16 PM

[QUOTE=Sarah_W;2099233]Full disclosure: I am a hunter and grew up in a hunting family. I am a competition shooter, competing in speed pistol and precision rifle. I am a certified firearms instructor and co-founder of US Womens Shooting Academy. I know a lot about firearms. Lastly, I speak publicly on the Constitution as well as the 2nd Amendment.

Etc........

Excellent, well-written post. I didn't paste the whole post here but I DID print it. Lots of good information there.

One thing I inferred from the post is something that I believe very strongly; and that is that the excess emotion by the people who favor far stricter laws and controls actually hinders, rather than helps, the debate. And yes. There are many (far too many) who use a public display of emotion all too often accompanied by twisted claims and interpretations that are used to increase the emotion level of the public for their own gain. Such shenanigans solve nothing.

What is needed is reason, an actual KNOWLEDGE of the facts rather than just mindlessly repeating words designed to inflame rather than inform, and a willingness to look beyond our own prejudices. We don't have a gun problem. We have a people problem. And until we recognize and deal with THAT, things will just get worse.

Heytubes 05-26-2022 12:16 PM

Guess I can sue car manufacturers when a drunk drive kills someone.

Kgcetm 05-26-2022 12:16 PM

No one is afraid of the punishment any more. Do gooders have constructed a prison life that many just don’t want to leave. The process time between crime and punishment is too long and the accommodations too nice.

Scbang 05-26-2022 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BevEnglish (Post 2099197)
Guns don’t kill unless a person pulls the trigger. Guns aren’t a carcinogen like tobacco. These kinds of things are products of perhaps too many violent video games, lack of proper parenting (instilling values and morals), lax or no punishment for crimes, and I could go on and on. My parents would have whipped me until I couldn’t stand up if I’d acted like some of these kids do these days. Parents just don’t discipline because they are a generation who didn’t get disciplined either.

You would think that 18 year old Texas kid had guts and energy to stab 19 children and 2 teachers to death.

I rest my case. Can you kill with no guns? Absolutely. but as I said earlier, it's how many and how fast you kill that isolates these horrible cases from other murders.

Sadness

Scbang 05-26-2022 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GATORBILL66 (Post 2099203)
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We need tougher penalties for all crimes including the death penalty for murder,

Many mass murders kill themselves after shooting. I don't think they were afraid to die.
Death penalty for them means nothing. We can give one death penalty for every single murder. What penalty would you give then to the dead Texas kid if he didn't get shot and killed?

Sadness.

Scbang 05-26-2022 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd2918 (Post 2099207)
I would like to see your source for this. Mi e came from Timeline of Worldwide School and Mass Shootings

Rules at the venue or for insurance.

It's dictated by Secret Service to protect you know who scheduled to speak there.
It should have been "Everybody is required to carry some kind of guns".

Sad.

Scbang 05-26-2022 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caymus (Post 2099243)
I wondered why the Border Patrol was involved.

Many of the cops and/or soldiers do not have actual gun battle experience. They will more likely be hiding than trying to shoot the killer. Border patrol guys probably have enough experience with live bullets flying. Long time ago, I passed a live shooting robbery scene and the only cop who really was aiming and shooting was a Vietnam Vet. I read the Texas school security guard did not do anything to stop this massacre and there is absolutely no proof that armed school guard reduces school gun violence.
That is $1B/yr wasted because someone has to say we are doing something.

Sadness

Scbang 05-26-2022 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
Almost correct.

Hunters in Japan can have guns.

The low murder rate is culture driven, not gun control driven.
Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyJo (Post 2099226)
Right. They will not dishonor their families. The life lessons begin at birth…

Japan has a quite bloody history ( If you watched any Samurai war movies ). It is true hunters can have a hunting gun but it is very difficult to get a permit. It has to be unloaded and locked in. If any high level dignitaries come to town, you have to bring your gun to local police station to be locked up till he/she is gone. It is not cultural but I admit, if you did not have guns for so long ( Since the end of WW2 ) it probably became cultural by now..

Sadness


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