I am a liberal, obviously, and I agree with almost every thing you said.

Well said.

No, to the ok corral
 

i suggested in previous posts that the duty of protecting our children should belong to each of the 50 states national guardsmen as outlined in the second amendment to the bill of rights.
They are already on the payroll and are fully trained in the weaponry they use. 2 guardsmen per school using metal detectors and one centralized entrance should suffice and succeed.
No supreme court battles to fight. No us vs. Them. Let's put the children first because if we don't then were putting them last.

But would agree with the policies on treatment of individuals with mental problems and the criminals laws of the past that kept a lid on this sort of carnage ?

Wash, Rinse, Repeat
 

So 22 pages on this thread later, the same old same old is regurgitated. What is the problem that is trying to be solved here? School shootings? Ok, if that is the only problem that will stop children from being slaughtered in schools, then you must take away ALL guns, not just semi-automatics. You can't argue that bolt action rifles are ok since children are just as dead when shot with a bolt action rifle. You even get the benefit of ending shootings in major urban areas if no one can have a gun. Or does shooting children/people only matter when it is a mass shooting event?

LET"S DO IT!

Now what? Now what?

Do we wait for the next mass murder of children to take away THAT tool, or should we be proactive? What tool? How about a car? Oh my, cars are not designed to kill, nope can't take them away. Hmmmm....so if evil, or someone with mental issues decides that they can kill as many children by ramming them down with a car in the playground, is that going to be ok? While this did not happen on a playground, a "mass killing" event recently happened using a car. Remember Darrell Brooks? If you don't remember him, he was the person arrested for the Waukesha Christmas Parade tragedy (link). How about the suicidal person who decides to load up a car with fertilizer as part of a bomb and decides to take out a school bus?

So go ahead, focus on the tool currently used and take away guns. Do you really think that will stop someone who is bent on murder from finding another way to kill?

Or how about narrowing the focus and finding out WHY and what we can do better to reduce the WHY? More laws aren't the answer if existing laws don't work. WHY don't they work? WHY do the rights of people who need mental help supersede the rights of children to live?

Everyday we do risk analysis. When you get in a car, fly on a plane, EVEN TAKING prescription medicine you assess the risk and either accept it or not. Face it, living REQUIRES risk, it is impossible to eliminate all risk.

I just said to my wife.....
 

Sarah W - That is so very true. When I read what is highlighted, I said to my wife, "You gotta' love this woman".
Also, not that it matters, but I think the term "clip" which I have seen in some of these post, is being incorrectly used. I believe the proper term is "magazine".

I have not heard of any of these shootings being done by NRA members. Maybe only NRA members should be allowed to own guns.

The school system had it's own TRAINED police force. The only problem was none of them had any experience (how do you get experience the first time?) So, many things went wrong. Lots of witnesses are coming forward and contradicting Abbots "claims" about how it went down. Even to the point a 9 year old that lived told the story of the police, once they went in, were calling out to have the kids let them know where they were, and one little girl stood up and yelled "HELP". so, they shooter shot her.

If restricting gun ownership is the answer to gun violence, why is it that the states/cities with the strictest gun control laws have the highest gun related violence? Does anyone REALLY think that by eliminating gun sales to honest, decent citizens we are going to eliminate gun related violence? Does making marijuana illegal actually keep folks from obtaining marijuana? Yes, decent law abiding folks will not have guns, but is that what you really want? I don't know the stats on gun ownership to gun crime, but I would suggest that over all, it has to be pretty low. If there really is over 300 million guns owned in America, then the gun crime to gun ownership is pretty low. So, do we penalize decent folks because of a very minute amount of lawlessness related to possession of guns? How about we ban automobiles because a very few car owners drive under the influence? Take all cars away from decent folks. How about banning all alcohol sales because a very few abusers drive under the influence? Oh yeah, that was tried already and how did that work? Maybe we should make laws that prohibit murder....oh...right....done that.
Now, we get to the common argument that will undoubtedly come up (as always) about rate of fire. "Oh, but a semiautomatic firearm can kill lots of people." Yep, but so can a bomb, so can poisonous gas, and so can a truck or car. Do we penalize the majority for the actions of the minority? Like someone else said, how many murders by firearm in the Villages?
Take away the cause, not the method.

Thank you, Yes you are correct. The AR uses magazines, not clips. Many rifles, especially modern types use magazines. I think of it as a "box" that gets inserted into the action of the rifle. Clips are thin and not a box. I've shot WWII rifles that used a clip. Moon clips allow a revolver to shoot 9mm and speed load. There may be other types.

Hypocrisy
 

Isn't it hypocritical and ironic that no guns will be allowed at the NRA event this week? Don't you wish that those precautions were in place at every supermarket, church, movie theater, etc?
How about those privileged few (mostly big name politicians) who walk around with a security detail?

Yes that will work just like the cars that kill people

Back and forth.

It is obvious that we can't TAKE AWAY ALL THE GUNS. So, even suggesting it is just being intentionally confrontational.

We can at least attempt to control the access. We can make some attempt to keep guns in the hands of responsible gun owners.

It is harder to get a drivers license in many states than it is to get as many guns as you want. In Texas the criteria seems to be, you are 18, breathing, have a load of money to spend, and no "known" criminal background involving shooting kids in schools.

Over and over people are saying, things that WONT work.

But, few or none are making suggestions of what might help. Just HELP - not perfect, not a solution. Every single person here that has explained in great detail why the things that are being proposes won't work, and not offering solutions themselves, are telling the parents "sucks to be you, we can't stop the murdering of your children".

How many cars have been used to murder children in their classrooms at school?

I wait while you look up the answer since you seem to think this post will contribute to saving children lives.

It seems almost every week another shooting kills more kids, and what do we have to offer as a sign to the parents that we care at all? Sarcasm? Children are dying. They are being murdered. Can we please argue about the color of peoples skin, or the cause of poverty, or wars, or stupid politicians, and for the sake of our children TRY to find something that will HELP. Not SOVLE, just help.

The greatest country on earth and we can't even set aside politics long enough to TRY and find a way to reduce the number of kids being murdered.

The Judge is on His throne and we will all stand before Him one day. Things would be a whole lot different if the Holy Bible were once again used as a text book in our school rooms.

Parochial schools notwithstanding, I don’t recall the Bible being used as a text book in schools but I am only in my mid 60s.

I am for Americans coming together and finding things to try to reduce this problem. If we just enact things that reduce the deaths by 10% each year. Every year, one more thing, in ten years we would have solved the problem. But, we are now 20 years into this, since Columbine, and every single step is a fight. American's arguing about taking away cars and fertilizer instead of making productive suggestions on things that might help. Instead it seems that if. solution isn't perfect. If you can't guarantee it will stop 100% of the murders and not affect anyones access to guns - then the children's lives are not worth even trying.

Whose bible do you think we should use for indoctrinating our children? And lets not talk about the awesome success of Theocracies in solving violence - does the inquisition, or the Crusades bring anything to mind? Mass murdering and torture.

If you want to practice religious beliefs, I am 100% in favor of that If you want to force me and my children to practice YOUR religious beliefs - how is that freedom of speech? How is that freedom of Religion?

The problem is MAN MADE, and the solution will be MAN MADE.

defund the C I A
Investigate the psychotropic drugs the mass shooters are taking.

That's your opinion. The facts show that the less guns, the less gun-related deaths.

Chicken. Put police back in schools.

no, but that's a whole other can of worms. the cruelty involved in these sanitariums were inhumane, certainly, but the solution to simply release them is insane. if this is how things are in the US today, the ONLY thing that will stop this is security. no unauthorized personnel allowed with verification. we had to do it @ my kid's high school, was no big thing. you ring a bell, the camera sees who you are, & office staff buzz you in. not perfect, but it was a start

Not sure I saw an answer to my question ? We should come together and turn the clock back regarding criminal justice and how mental problems are dealt with to the point where these things were just about unheard of ? and access to weapons was , at least by todays standards, very easy ?

well, maybe not @ school, but there's been reports of nut cases plowing thru pedestrians, wasn't 1 in wisconsin @ some sort of holiday celebration? then some other crazy guy in times square. again, i insist security is the answer. we simply must stop crazy people with guns from accessing schools

an added thought: what about the case of sandy hook? the kid was obvious unbalanced just by looking @ him, but his mother bought them for him, as gifts, yet! how do we begin to control THAT? she even took him target shooting!

Texas lawmen, Big hats, Big boots, Big swagger , Big nothing, they had to wait till they had an army , when as soon as the first law men on the grounds should have been banging at that door not waiting for help

from your lips to God's ear! where's harry callahan when you need him?

"Those who give up a little freedom for a little security shall lose both--and deserve neither". (Benjamin Franklin--allegedly)

There was an officer there. The school district even has it's own trained in school shootings police force. It didn't work. The city police were 3 minutes away from the school, and took 15 MINUTES to get to the school. They then waited 45 more minutes to go inside, while children were being murdered.

Meanwhile the police stood outside the school for an HOUR, arguing with parents that were begging them to go in and save their children. One woman even had to be handcuffed to prevent her from trying herself, since the police weren't doing anything.

The official story coming out would make you think everything went according to plan, that did not happen.

If you believe the article, some went in early to rescue their own kids.

MSN

There job was to stop the shooter

Do you really think that I believe that you can, or should take away all guns? As I previously posted, people are comparing apples to pears. The mantra continues to be more gun control and those who question more gun control are not looking for solutions.

Given all of the information coming out about the murderer of these children, if he was FLAGGED for mental health issues in the FBI database as he should have been, he would not have passed the background check that the FBI approved. He would therefore not have been able to purchase the two rifles legally. This is one example of system failure. How about fixing what is broke and then determine what is needed to close identified gaps?

Please provide proof "that it is easier to get a gun in many states" than a drivers license.

As I have said multiple times before, if you want to make progress then focus on the why and try and fix it. The problem with looking at the why is that it is not going to change anything in the short term. When the "quick fixes" ultimately don't work, how many of those people who proposed/supported them will be willing to look into the eyes of survivors of future mass killings and explain how their promised fixes didn't work?

By that definition the only free person is an anarchist.

Do you stop at stop signs? Why?
Do you drive on the right side of the road? Why?
Do you not use an outhouse in the city? Why?
Do you not rob banks? Why?

The list of "freedoms" we give up in the name of being civilized is almost endless. So, I say that is a wonderful sounding sound bite, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with real life.

I also make the assumption that the "freedoms" you don't want to give up, are not the same as the ones I don't want to give up, but my freedoms are not as important as yours.

Guns do not shot themselves...

Prayers for the families.

Absolutely.

Hopefully they have a strong faith.

Only in Hollywood.

Do some research and educate yourself.
Many studies have been done about Japan.
:ho:

The Bible was the primary text book in colonial times and Fisher Ames, who helped frame the Bill of Rights addressed the issue in an article titled “School Books”.

Maybe there members follow rules.. some crazies in public don’t.

Yes, children in a classroom have been killed by a car, so you can stop waiting. Here is a link to the story. Granted it was an accident, but if an accident can happen that kills children in a classroom, can you deny that a deliberate attempt could have the same result? Oh and let's not forget the children that have been mowed down by a car. Don't believe me? Here is the most recent example, and by most recent, I mean YESTERDAY(link). Also note that the car contained multiple incendiary devices. Note too that a school staff member denied him access to the school 'to use the restroom" (Way to go by that staff member!). So did the car do it, or did the monster driving the car do it? The POINT is that if someone evil or mentally deranged wants to kill they will. So STOP focusing on guns and START focusing on why these animals do what they do.!