[TooColdNJ]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Basically this tells me that "all lives" don't really matter afterall. People with criminal records' lives don't matter. Not even if they are free after serving their sentence. Their lives don't matter. If their lives mattered, the cops wouldn't use their criminal history as an excuse to kill them.

And, since a person convicted and sentenced just ONCE is now branded as "mattering less" than everyone else, it's no wonder that they are repeat offenders.

[NoMoSno]

Originally Posted by TooColdNJ

Why not shoot to incapacitate and not shoot to kill?

You should join the PD and see how that works out for you.

[EviesGP]

Dear Moderator,
I respectfully disagree that "the media" is irrelevant to this topic. Since this incident occurred, I have watched/listened to many different media outlets. And nearly all of them begin the headlines with..."another unarmed black man was shot by police"! NO PERSPECTIVE, or circumstances?! So, for us(general public and TOTV members) to objectively look at this, when you have the media using sensationalized and inflammatory terms, makes it quite difficult? They were quick to point out that there were 3 kids in the car, and he was shot 7 times.

Dear TOTV folks,
Although I did not wear the uniform, I worked with law enforcement for 10yrs, and have relatives that are LEOs. Their training teaches them many tactics, techniques, and procedures(TTP). They're also taught statistics and various scenarios. Scenes like these are VERY TENSE, and your adrenaline is flowing! They're trying to get the scene under control, and that is nearly impossible, when you have someone(regardless of color) not following their direction(s), and actually walking away and reaching into a vehicle? ESPECIALLY, when YOUR kids are in the car, and weapons are drawn??? Where is your care for those children? As for shooting him 7 times, I'll refer you to both the TTP(s) and statistics. TTPs teach you that you don't shoot unless you feel threatened, and you don't shoot to wound, as with the suspect's adrenaline, he/she could actually survive long enough to inflict further harm. Hence, he was shot 7 times at close range, and he's going to live(i.e. statistics)! As for the amount of cops there, that's not even worth responding to. Let's let the facts lay out, and see where the evidence leads, before judging. And, the MSM will continue to flame the fires with their rhetoric! Stay safe everyone.

[MercerLunatic]

happened in Kenosha Wisconsin

[Robertnavarre70]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

"The media" is not a singular thing. IT - the singular thing that doesn't exist, doesn't "focus on specific incidents" any more than "The media" - any other singular thing that doesn't exist, focuses on specific incidences.

The category of "the media" includes all media. A spectrum of media that ranges from tweets on the internet to live coverage of disasters to National Geographic investigative 4-part report series on the reproductive cycle of arachnids, and everything inbetween.

Each will have its own perspective of facts, and each will relay those facts in a way that will grab the interest of its paid subscribers most.

Mainstream Media doesn't even mean anything anymore, OTHER than as a dogwhistle for the alt-right and leftist propaganda mills. It basically means "any form of media that is pushing an agenda that OUR agenda-creators disagree with."

White Nationalists will hate Ebony magazine, because Ebony magazine promotes topics of interest to black people. Ebony magazine will hate Stormfront, because Stormfront promotes topics of interest to Nazis.

The networks, ABC, NBC, and CBS, cater to middle America, because middle America are who watch those networks the most.

Once people get their heads out of their leftist, alt-right, nazi, racist, anti-male, anti-female, anti-pro-choice, anti-choice, anti this that and the other thing butt cheeks, they'll have the opportunity to realize that facts really do exist, and facts are not always conspiracies, and conspiracies are often wrong.

Til then, keep enjoying the bubble you've put around your head while living in the bubble. And remember that bubble isn't a mask. Please wear one when you go grocery shopping.

Thanks.

As is occasionally noted in this forum, many people hear what they want to hear and avoid the rest. Or if they hear something that does not match their perspective they reject it under the guise of some acceptable label that makes it illegitimate. The good thing about this forum is that if you keep reading you will often find some common sense intelligent commentary that both addresses the focal issue as well as shedding some broader light on the topic of human behavior...including bias and stupidity and sometimes common sense.

[Byte1]

Of course a person's record is important during a police contact. How stupid can folks be to think that knowing how dangerous a person can be is not essential in a police officer's confrontation. Knowing that a suspect has a felony record of violence helps an officer be alert. If you think that a police officer gets paid enough to get shot and maybe killed, you are not living in reality. Yes, a police officer may shoot someone in the back in certain dangerous circumstances. If a person is suspected (reasonably) of reaching for a deadly weapon, a police officer is acting in self defense when he shoots to stop the suspect. It is very easy for ignorant, protected citizens to Monday morning quarterback a police shooting. They were not there and the videos you see are only one dimensional so to speak. You only see what someone wishes you to see. A perfect example is the Floyd case. No one saw the other video where he was arrested, cuffed and put into the police car by two officers, and a minute later when they were dealing with the other two subjects, he escaped out of the patrol car. Then he began to resist arrest and capture. That puts more perspective on his being restrained. I am not saying whether or not the restrain was done properly, but it is not unusual for officers to get a violent person down on the ground and place a knee on them, to regain control.
In this case, even with children in the car, this guy might have been reaching for a gun. It would not be the first time that a dirtbag put children in harms way.
I do not see any evidence yet that this is a race based incident. I see only (so far) a cut and dry, out of control disturbance that instead of the subject submitting to instructions by the police, he decided to make a stupid choice and reach into the car for some reason or another. The police assumed it was for nefarious reasons and used deadly force to stop him. If the police had hesitated and IF the subject reached for a gun and shot the officer or officers, then we probably would not be having this conversation. Just another unfortunate incident where a Cop got killed.
Sorry if I do not have any sympathy for persons that persist with stupid actions. Maybe they should make a subset of the Darwin awards for people that get themselves killed STUPIDLY because of their actions with the police.

[Sherry8bal]

It's NOT the policemen's fault! For someone to do what this black guy did can make them think of nothing but something bad happening and they can't stand there and see if he brings out a gun or whatever. He forced their hand from his own stupidity. Had he listened to what they said, he would still be alive. The same goes for so many of these people who run or fight the police. Getting arrested is nothing compared to being killed.

What's even worse is this guy was in the wrong but then that seems to make it okay for all the others to go loot, steal, burn and rob anything or anyone in sight like it's Christmas. They make a whole mockery of the black race and it's very sad. Things will never get better with that kind of behavior. We HAVE to have the police for law and order. Can you imagine letting the people on the street be in charge of the law and order??? We would return to the Wild West days and that's not a good thing. SUPPORT YOUR POLICE!!!

Originally Posted by mamamia54

The video I saw on the news doesn’t show him walking away. It shows him reaching in his car. How are the police supposed to know what he is reaching for. It’s a split second decision. Like my dad always said he was told in WWII “it’s kill or be killed”. I don’t really like or condone violence or murder, but we need to put ourselves in the officers shoes. Another saying I like
If you haven’t walked in my shoes, don’t act like they fit you.

The 2 videos I saw show him fighting with the police at the back of the SUV and Mr Blake won that fight. Mr Blake is then scene in the video walking away from the police with their guns drawn. Mr Blake acting with total disregard for what could happen if he continued to walk away and then open the driver's side door and then while an officer pulls on his shirt, reach down inside the vehicle to do whatever.

My statement is just that, mine. I state that I wouldn't want to be a police officer because people like Mr Blake act with total disregard for his own safety and others. I don't need to see if the shoe fits because I have enough intelligence to know it's not for me.

Mr Blake's past, if known by the police would be helpful but not a reason on its own to shoot him.

I think it's helpful to see what it's like to be a police officer in a shootout to gain perspective. YouTube has lots of them and the shootings involve whites, blacks and Latinos.

Watch these guys get shot and keep on doing their job. Watch the thugs get shot and keep on fighting. Then ask yourself if you would just shoot one time to wound the person? Choose between your rubber bullets or your lead ones? Would you wait and see what he's going to pull out of pocket, waist band or under his seat?

These cops see these videos in training. I have personally arrested 6 people at gun point, lived in poverty around violent people and served in the military. I was shot at in Arizona while riding my bike. It's so easy to sit on your couch having never been in a life threatening situation and say you know better than everyone else on how to better handle these types of situations.

I will continue to wait and see if this was a good shooting and if the cop was acting on racist feelings then I'll support protesting for justice.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by TooColdNJ

Why not shoot to incapacitate and not shoot to kill?

As far as I know, there is not a police Dept. in America that teaches its officers to "shoot to incapacitate." A gun is use of deadly force. A taser is used to incapacitate. A police officer is taught to shoot to STOP, whether it kills or incapacitates the subject does not matter as long as it stops them. This is not a TV Western where Hickok shoots the gun out of someone's hand. This is fast paced, adrenaline pumping, shaking hands using whatever means it takes to stop the bad guy and still go home at night to your family. Taking unnecessary chances with known felons or violent individuals is being a fool and can get you or your comrades killed.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by TooColdNJ

So that means that your opinion of those who don’t believe there should be unjustifiable shootings, regardless of race, is that they don’t care, and blue lives don’t matter to them. I,for one, feel that both issues matter.

Either all lives matter or no lives matter

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Well, he was an adult, not a kid. Some say that he went to the car because he worried about his children in the back seat. The Police were there for a domestic disturbance. Police statistics show those to be very dangerous situations. Police do not like to go into those situations. Their presence may make the situation worse. Society is now grappling with the idea of involving more social service type professionals in these situations. Possibly they could wear vests and have radios and a squad car could stay some distance away. The social workers could receive danger pay. Those are some opinions and suggestions.
.......As to the actual shooting, I would suggest that Police carry 2 guns, one with lead bullets and one with rubber bullets. This man had his back to the officers so maybe (?) it would have been a good situation for rubber, not lead bullets?

Rubber bullets are made for crowd control, not for self-defense. A police officer ONLY uses lethal force (a gun) when there is a life at stake. Tasers are used to incapacitate, but I wouldn't use one for self-defense. Does a Cop get paid enough to consider incapacitate when his life is at stake?

Originally Posted by TooColdNJ

True, but does that give them the right to shoot anyone based on how “criminal” they are or were? That’s yet another form of discrimination, especially if there are no current warrants out for their arrest.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just noticed that it was reported that the police had an open warrant on Mr Blake and they were there to arrest him.

This was on a news clip and I don't represent it as fact. Just an fyi.

I don't think the police shot Mr Blake because of his arrest history. I could be wrong as the investigation is on going. It looks like Mr Blake fought with the police on a newly released video and won that fight. Then we see on the original video that Mr Blake acted with total disregard for 3 police officers pointing their guns at him while he went into his SUV. His actions seem on the surface to have lead to him being shot.

I support police reform, blm and prison reform. I will support protest if evidence comes forward that shows a different story.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Mrprez

Deadly serious. What if he grabbed a gun, turned around and shot that policeman? Would you be OK with that?

Except, he didn't grab a gun. He didn't have a gun to grab. The policemen shot him anyway. Why are you okay with that?

[Red White & Blue]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

since a person convicted and sentenced just ONCE is now branded as "mattering less" than everyone else, it's no wonder that they are repeat offenders.

If I was hiring for a job opening in my company, a person with a convicted record will matters less to me then someone with no convictions at all.
I'm sure you would look at it the same as me if you were in that position, its only human nature, so we can say some people matter more then others.

[TooColdNJ]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

I am sure there was a reason send 7 officers.

Just because there was 3 kids in the back how would they know if he was reaching for a weapon?

You might be right. You think they would have acted any differently if the guy told them he had to check on his kids? If he would’ve told them the reason, which maybe he DID, they probably wouldn’t have believed him anyway.

No, his life shouldn’t be celebrated, but George Floyd said he couldn’t breathe. You see how well that worked. They didn’t care because he had a criminal record? That’s sad.