[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

The only fair answer here is to create a transgender classification for sports competition.

I have no axe 🪓 to grind here and say live and let live, as long as no one else’s rights are trampled.

I agree with the last part, and I don't care about sports anyway. But I don't think a "no transgenders allowed" is the right tack to take on this. I don't know what is the right tack, the idea of mixed teams seems more fair to me. And sure - even a transgender classification would be fine. If it's a mixed team, they'd have the same shot as any cis-gender man or woman at making the team.

[Eg_cruz]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

Where are the woman's right people? So unfair.

Agree

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

So you're saying - someone who was born with the female anatomy, grew up that way, but "came out" as a transgender male, getting all the appropriate medical treatment BEFORE entering Olympic trials - including breast removal, hysterectomy, and hormone treatment to produce more masculine traits including lowering of voice and facial hair growth..

They should be trying out in the WOMENS' Olympics trials. Because he was born female and that's how you want it to be. Right?

I mean he's stronger, taller, has facial hair, no longer has a woman's reproductive system, or breast tissue. His hormonal balance is now that of a natural-born man, nothing more, he's not taking "extra" hormones but rather - hormone replacement. Just like a woman going through menopause takes hormone replacement. Except this one is for men, not women. But he'll be competing as a woman.

Because that's what you want.

I say - okay. That's fine.

Except that person has been taking high doses of testosterone for years, giving them a physical advantage over other women...

And yes, they are "extra" hormones, not a "replacement"...

Taking estrogen after a total hysterectomy is "replacement" therapy...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I also feel that transgender males/females shouldn't be competing for teams of the gender that doesn't match their biology. But if they compete in teams that DOES match their biology, then you'll have transgender women - who were born biologically male - competing against men. Tall women with no facial hair, no *****, wearing bras, competing with men. Because they were born with a ***** even though they no longer have one. That makes zero sense.

I'd rather see all sports open up to all genders. No more male teams and female teams. People can be on the teams selected on the merits of their abilities rather than what reproductive organs they were born with, or currently have. Yes, men are typically taller than women. But the average "random tall guy" still can't play basketball as well as the "tall chick with the full 4-year basketball scholarship at UConn."

And many of those college basketball men can't hold a candle to some of the Women Huskies.

So pick your teams with men, women, transgender, cisgender, nonbinary, whatever. If they can do the job, then they're on the team.

Then you can say goodbye to the WNBA, Women's Soccer, Tennis, Golf, Softball, Swimming, Track & Field, etc, etc, etc...

They will ALL be dominated by biological men...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

And if a person's chromosomes are XX, she is biologically a female and should be allowed to compete against other females, no matter the surgeries, hormones, clothing she chooses to wear and so on. It's not fair to let her compete against biological males having XY chromosomes. It's that simple.

Good luck with that for womens' basketball, baseball, and hockey teams. That transgender male being forced to play on womens' teams because he has XX chromosomes is gonna clean up.

There are already rules against taking hormones to gain an advantage in sports...

Having a mastectomy or a hysterectomy gives no physical advantage in sports...

Women taking men's hormones does...

[Eg_cruz]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

So you're saying - someone who was born with the female anatomy, grew up that way, but "came out" as a transgender male, getting all the appropriate medical treatment BEFORE entering Olympic trials - including breast removal, hysterectomy, and hormone treatment to produce more masculine traits including lowering of voice and facial hair growth..

They should be trying out in the WOMENS' Olympics trials. Because he was born female and that's how you want it to be. Right?

I mean he's stronger, taller, has facial hair, no longer has a woman's reproductive system, or breast tissue. His hormonal balance is now that of a natural-born man, nothing more, he's not taking "extra" hormones but rather - hormone replacement. Just like a woman going through menopause takes hormone replacement. Except this one is for men, not women. But he'll be competing as a woman.

Because that's what you want.

I say - okay. That's fine.

The problem with your statement is these men is, they have not completed the transformation from man to women they still have their original male reproductive organs.
So if a man dresses as a women and says he is a women, I am sorry it doesn’t make you one.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

What is it about the transition process do you think will allow a formerly-female body to now "clean up" against presently-female bodies? Does the transition process redefine bone and muscle structure in some way when going from female to male? The process certainly doesn't appear to redefine those structures when going from male to female.

If a woman transitions to male, they will take male hormones, which WILL increase muscle mass... It's already illegal in many sports...

If a male transitioning to female has the "bottom surgery", they will lose testosterone production, which will result in a decrease in muscle mass.

But... If this was done after puberty, the bone structure is already set, and that alone gives a mechanical advantage...

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

(1)If a woman transitions to male, they will take male hormones, which WILL increase muscle mass... It's already illegal in many sports...

(2)If a male transitioning to female has the "bottom surgery", they will lose testosterone production, which will result in a decrease in muscle mass.

(3)But... If this was done after puberty, the bone structure is already set, and that alone gives a mechanical advantage...

1............good to know.

3......pre-pub "opportunities" scare the hell out of me if our society allows.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

I would assume the Oly Committee and colleges and high schools and middle schools will start addressing the juices in bodies. I hope.

High Schools and Colleges are brainwashed to be "inclusive" and are loathe to stop trans women from competing... Lia Thomas is the poster er, "person" in this argument.

There were several trans track and field athletes who beat teenagers out of scholarships to college...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

And how many trans people make the Olympics? Very very few in either the Summer or Winter Olympics. And there are many Olympic sports which highlight technical abilities developed over years of experience rather than just physical attributes.

A case-by-case approach would be far easier.

Since this is a relatively new phenomena, one would not expect to see that many trans athletes competing on an olympic level... Yet...

And I agree, I doubt you'll see it in women's gymnastics and a few other highly specialized sports.

But... If nothing is done, Lea Thomas will swim in the Olympics and beat many women. You will see it in women's basketball, ice skating, skiing, biathlon, cycling, track & field, etc, etc, etc...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by PugMom

the only solution is to have trans compete against the other trans, in a category all their own

Then you would need 4 categories... Male, Female, Trans Male, Trans female...

[LuvNH]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Makes sense but who would pay to watch it?

Other trans gender people and peeping toms.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

1............good to know.

3......pre-pub "opportunities" scare the hell out of me if our society allows.

To your 2nd ... er 3rd? comment? I agree...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

To your 2nd ... er 3rd? comment? I agree...

Ah... I see you added numbers to my post...

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Then you would need 4 categories... Male, Female, Trans Male, Trans female...

& then categories for short people, fat people, blondes, seven fingers, beards, different bra cup sizes...................where does it stop??


a young person could identify as a 60 year old and play in the Senior Games.