[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Oh, you mean the knuckle-dragging white supremacist hillbillies who call it a "plandemic" and think George Soros, Bill Gates and Obama are behind the whole thing at China's direction?

Well, you'd be wrong. Those refusing to get vaccinated are not right wing nutjobs nor Tucker Carlson/Fox News lovers but minorities - black and Latinos - who distrust the government that takes care of them, cradle to grave. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

These are supposed to be their peeps and they have pooped on their vaccination agenda! They've offered them money, incentives, in California the idiot governor is on TV spinning the lottery wheel where newly vaccinated folks are entered, they've done outreach, special vaccine clinics at parks and shopping malls. Latino men, still full of the old-school machismo, think it will make them impotent or sterile. Blacks think it's another Tuskegee experiment at their expense. And then there's the young. Well, they're supposed to be stupid, right? Full of bravado, thinking they're invincible and nothing can hurt them.

Maybe you shouldn't be so self-righteous, judgmental, sneering, and stereotyping, and realize this pandemic is all about FEAR. Fear of the virus, which I see plenty of on this forum, and fear of an experimental vaccine and its possible, unknown side effects. Both reactions are normal and human so stop trivializing and mocking other people's pain and anxiety.

Here Are The Biggest Groups That Are Still Refusing The Covid-19 Vaccine, Poll Finds

EXCERPT.........Nearly half of unvaccinated respondents were Republicans (49% versus 29% Democrats), as opposed to 31% of vaccinated respondents who identified as Republicans and 59% Democrats.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Ah, but they also are influenced by outside sources. You seem to want to deify scientists but they can be corrupt just like everyone else, haha.

My daughter was an immunologist - not a virologist, but close enough. She worked for research labs in the U.S. and Europe. She usually worked under the umbrella of a hospital or university so it depended on who was providing the funding for their research and that could skew results (especially if pharmaceutical companies were involved). Hate to burst your bubble!

Let us take what you said about University research into diseases and vaccines being CORRUPTIBLE by the Pharmaceutical Industry as a GIVEN - then, we have to acknowledge that in the 50s through the 70s the US government stimulated and paid for basic research at ALL Universities. After that, some legendary President that also was a cowboy actor pulled Federal funds for research from the Universities in order to free up funds for a tax cut. Then, the Universities had to go "hats in hand" out to industry and Corporations to secure research funds. Today, China graduates more Scientists and Engineers and places more emphasis and money into their research than the US does. So, there is a modern-day history behind the "corruption" of which you speak! US students go For Business degrees more than Science and Engineering TODAY. Now you know, "the rest of the story"!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I'm aware. I follow the Cruise Critic forums very closely. As avid cruisers, hubby and I are still waiting it out. Too many "surprises" going on with the protocols changing at the drop of a hat. This Delta variant is waaaay too contagious for us to get on a ship right now. Oh well.

That IS a smart course of action!

[drducat]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Let us take what you said about University research into diseases and vaccines being CORRUPTIBLE by the Pharmaceutical Industry as a GIVEN - then, we have to acknowledge that in the 50s through the 70s the US government stimulated and paid for basic research at ALL Universities. After that, some legendary President that also was a cowboy actor pulled Federal funds for research from the Universities in order to free up funds for a tax cut. Then, the Universities had to go "hats in hand" out to industry and Corporations to secure research funds. Today, China graduates more Scientists and Engineers and places more emphasis and money into their research than the US does. So, there is a modern-day history behind the "corruption" of which you speak! US students go For Business degrees more than Science and Engineering TODAY. Now you know, "the rest of the story"!

All about the money........

UPDATE 2-Pfizer and Moderna raise prices for COVID-19 vaccines in EU- FT

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Ah, but they also are influenced by outside sources. You seem to want to deify scientists but they can be corrupt just like everyone else, haha.

My daughter was an immunologist - not a virologist, but close enough. She worked for research labs in the U.S. and Europe. She usually worked under the umbrella of a hospital or university so it depended on who was providing the funding for their research and that could skew results (especially if pharmaceutical companies were involved). Hate to burst your bubble!

Wow people are really having a lot of trouble comprehending my posts. Am I typing in a foreign language and not realizing it?

I'll say it again, differently. But it means the same:

If you put up a TV editorial personality, a conspiracy theory website written by conspiracy theorists and NOT scientists of any kind at all, the President of the United States (past, present, or future), and my next door neighbor who's a very very nice, smart, clever, fun woman...

against a scientist who has earned accolades from his own peers for the past 40-something years, has had hundreds of peer-reviewed studies and research that has resulted in groundbreaking data and health benefits to the entire world...

I'll take the scientist. Every single time. Even if he's accused of being a politician.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by drducat

All about the money........

UPDATE 2-Pfizer and Moderna raise prices for COVID-19 vaccines in EU- FT

It's not "all" about money. Price increases are about money of course. Otherwise they'd be an increase in elevation of their patio chairs. Or an increase in the height of the new roof. Or an increase in my waist after eating a box of Yodels.

Did you really expect these companies would be able to continue doing research, improving their product, and basically giving away the entire first batch of their vaccines, without recouping some of those expenses? They are for-profit corporations, not governmental social programs.

You want capitalism, but you don't want to pay for it?

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Oh, you mean the knuckle-dragging white supremacist hillbillies who call it a "plandemic" and think George Soros, Bill Gates and Obama are behind the whole thing at China's direction?

Well, you'd be wrong. Those refusing to get vaccinated are not right wing nutjobs nor Tucker Carlson/Fox News lovers but minorities - black and Latinos - who distrust the government that takes care of them, cradle to grave. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

These are supposed to be their peeps and they have pooped on their vaccination agenda! They've offered them money, incentives, in California the idiot governor is on TV spinning the lottery wheel where newly vaccinated folks are entered, they've done outreach, special vaccine clinics at parks and shopping malls. Latino men, still full of the old-school machismo, think it will make them impotent or sterile. Blacks think it's another Tuskegee experiment at their expense. And then there's the young. Well, they're supposed to be stupid, right? Full of bravado, thinking they're invincible and nothing can hurt them.

Maybe you shouldn't be so self-righteous, judgmental, sneering, and stereotyping, and realize this pandemic is all about FEAR. Fear of the virus, which I see plenty of on this forum, and fear of an experimental vaccine and its possible, unknown side effects. Both reactions are normal and human so stop trivializing and mocking other people's pain and anxiety.

"but minorities - black and Latinos - who distrust the government that takes care of them, cradle to grave."

Wow, just wow. No need to say more, as that's pretty self-explanatory - and there's even a word for it.

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Here Are The Biggest Groups That Are Still Refusing The Covid-19 Vaccine, Poll Finds

EXCERPT.........Nearly half of unvaccinated respondents were Republicans (49% versus 29% Democrats), as opposed to 31% of vaccinated respondents who identified as Republicans and 59% Democrats.

The poll you refer to is a Forbes article written as a hit piece on Republicans. It is not a poll but refers to a poll. That poll is by KFF and uses surveys and qualitative information. If you read it closely there is no mention of the actual sampling method, frame nor any of the typical statistics R2, t, F to determine statistical significance. Polls of Republicans typically have high bias of non response and how that is handled greatly influences the results as 2016 showed. The poll I remember found unvaccinated were about 50/50.

[drducat]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It's not "all" about money. Price increases are about money of course. Otherwise they'd be an increase in elevation of their patio chairs. Or an increase in the height of the new roof. Or an increase in my waist after eating a box of Yodels.

Did you really expect these companies would be able to continue doing research, improving their product, and basically giving away the entire first batch of their vaccines, without recouping some of those expenses? They are for-profit corporations, not governmental social programs.

You want capitalism, but you don't want to pay for it?

What are you talking about....The money to fund the vaccines came from you and me...our government funding.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by drducat

What are you talking about....The money to fund the vaccines came from you and me...our government funding.

The United States government did NOT fund the Pfizer vaccine.

[HRDave]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Here Are The Biggest Groups That Are Still Refusing The Covid-19 Vaccine, Poll Finds

EXCERPT.........Nearly half of unvaccinated respondents were Republicans (49% versus 29% Democrats), as opposed to 31% of vaccinated respondents who identified as Republicans and 59% Democrats.

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

Tracking Covid Vaccines by Race: Black and Hispanic Rates Lower Than White and Asian

COVID-19 Vaccine Equity for Racial and Ethnic Minority Groups
I could go on. 😎

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The United States government did NOT fund the Pfizer vaccine.

Big Pharma has gotten a deservedly bad rap by buying the rights to generic drugs then jacking up the price by a large multiple. Also as their patents expire they will make a small change refile and will threaten generic companies with lawsuits. Last year the government did provide funding to Moderna and the Pfizer exec walked back his statement that they did not get government help. The real heroes are the scientists whose institutions filed patents and fought with each other on the rights. Walter Isaacson wrote an interesting book “The Code Breaker” on Jennifer Doudna, last years Nobel prize winner in medicine whose research lead up to vaccines.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Let us take what you said about University research into diseases and vaccines being CORRUPTIBLE by the Pharmaceutical Industry as a GIVEN - then, we have to acknowledge that in the 50s through the 70s the US government stimulated and paid for basic research at ALL Universities. After that, some legendary President that also was a cowboy actor pulled Federal funds for research from the Universities in order to free up funds for a tax cut. Then, the Universities had to go "hats in hand" out to industry and Corporations to secure research funds. Today, China graduates more Scientists and Engineers and places more emphasis and money into their research than the US does. So, there is a modern-day history behind the "corruption" of which you speak! US students go For Business degrees more than Science and Engineering TODAY. Now you know, "the rest of the story"!

Regarding the cowboy you refer to, the reference below states most of his proposed cuts to higher education were not passed by Congress. So look elsewhere for why universities looked to business for funding. And do you think CRT which teaches math and science are racist will help us catch up with the Chinese?
————————

To achieve one of his major goals as president -- the reduction of federal spending -- Mr. Reagan proposed numerous cutbacks in funds for colleges, although most of his proposals were rejected by Congress, and he abandoned the effort late in his presidency.

The Reagan era also saw the publication of a major federal report that criticized the state of American education; the first significant efforts to crack down on abuses in student-aid programs, especially at for-profit colleges; conflicts between government secrecy during the cold war and the free exchange of scientific ideas; a foreign invasion conducted in part to rescue American medical students; and the beginning of the culture wars that would roil many college campuses for years to come.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by John41

Big Pharma has gotten a deservedly bad rap by buying the rights to generic drugs then jacking up the price by a large multiple. Also as their patents expire they will make a small change refile and will threaten generic companies with lawsuits. Last year the government did provide funding to Moderna and the Pfizer exec walked back his statement that they did not get government help. The real heroes are the scientists whose institutions filed patents and fought with each other on the rights. Jennifer Doudna last years Nobel prize winner in medicine wrote an interesting book “The Code Breaker” on the research leading up to vaccines.

I can't find a source showing that the Pfizer exec "walked back" a statement that they didn't receive funding for their research on the vaccine. What I -can- find is that Pfizer sunk over $2 BILLION of their own money into the research for their initial four vaccine attempts. They also worked with BioNTech in a collaborative effort. BioNTech DID get funding - from Germany.

What the US provided was actual purchase of 100 million doses, and the right to buy another 500 million, which we paid 2 billion dollars for.

Also, just aside, in response to other posts blaming certain races or political parties for being unvaccinated:

I don't give a flying fart what color they are or political party they belong to. If they CAN vaccinate, and CHOOSE not to, they are to blame. Whoever they are.

The majority of people sick with the virus, presently, are UNvaccinated. That's all that matters to me.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I can't find a source showing that the Pfizer exec "walked back" a statement that they didn't receive funding for their research on the vaccine. What I -can- find is that Pfizer sunk over $2 BILLION of their own money into the research for their initial four vaccine attempts. They also worked with BioNTech in a collaborative effort. BioNTech DID get funding - from Germany.

What the US provided was actual purchase of 100 million doses, and the right to buy another 500 million, which we paid 2 billion dollars for.

Also, just aside, in response to other posts blaming certain races or political parties for being unvaccinated:

I don't give a flying fart what color they are or political party they belong to. If they CAN vaccinate, and CHOOSE not to, they are to blame. Whoever they are.

The majority of people sick with the virus, presently, are UNvaccinated. That's all that matters to me.

I completely agree everyone over 20 who can should get vaccinated. And making it a racial or political party statement is a disservice. If this virus is the result of gain of function research it will have been designed to mutate faster and in a way to avoid our vaccines. Here’s the info below on the Pfizer walk back. Also the research was done in university labs not company labs. Big pharma was needed for production and distribution but did a great job.
——————————
As NPR reported in July, the government reached a deal for nearly two billion dollars to help distribute the vaccine. Pfizer’s own press release in July announced that the U.S. government placed an initial order of 100 million doses for $1.95 billion. No money went specifically into the vaccine’s research and development, but Pfizer absolutely did take government money, and was forced to walk back Jansen’s statement.

In an update to their story, Newsweek provided this key clarification, “This page has been updated to clarify Jansen’s comments following further details from a Pfizer spokesperson. The spokesperson clarified that its vaccine is linked to Operation Warp Speed, though its research and development has not taken funding from the federal government. The headline was also updated for clarity.”