[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by kenoc7

A century ago, balancing the tension between individual liberties and public safety, the Supreme Court upheld the ability of state and local governments to enforce mandatory vaccination laws. “In every well-ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members,” wrote Justice John Marshall Harlan, “the rights of the individual … may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.”

I suppose that's why public schools can mandate vaccines for students as a prerequisite for enrollment. Even before COVID, parents were skirting around the vaccination requirements claiming religious exemption. Some states tightened up their laws because they were seeing big outbreaks of whooping cough and measles, dangerous diseases for some, especially the former.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Yes, you're correct. The Delta variant is not as virulent/powerful but it is more contagious/easily spread. The scary variant, which apparently has been contained, is the South African variant, which had ravaged Brazil.

The most recent CDC findings are that DELTA is likely MORE deadly than past US variants. That is the whole reason that they recommended increased mask-wearing indoors and outdoors if in large, close groups. It is affecting younger people more.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by Patriceunger

Agree!
“CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group:

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%”

Yet here we go again with vaccinated people masking up, discussions of schools possibly not opening up, and I guess next up are the business closures and churches again??? This is nuts!

And compare that to Smallpox, which has a 30% mortality rate

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Yes, but what bothers me is not necessarily dying. Once you’re gone, you’re gone. It is the long Covid which can occur after mild illness too. Quality of life. That is what scares me.

Agree that "Quality of Life" should be the yardstick for society. Public health is part of the quality of life and the CDC is an important part of public health.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Speaking of the Covid long haul side effects..........anyone know if fully vaccinated people who get infected then recover suffer long haul effects?

Young children MIGHT (?) have long-term neurological problems since that has been established as a problem for children with symptomatic CV and may be worse with the Delta variant? There is probably continuing study about that possibility. I am SURE that vaccination makes that much less likely!

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The most recent CDC findings are that DELTA is likely MORE deadly than past US variants. That is the whole reason that they recommended increased mask-wearing indoors and outdoors if in large, close groups. It is affecting younger people more.

They said it's more transmissable and those who are diagnosed with it have higher viral loads but there is no evidence they get any sicker. At any rate, I'm sure there will be more variants coming down the pike. Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, a leading European viriologist, warned against mass vaccinations in the middle of a pandemic because it would create dangerous variants.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

A lot of viruses "come back" like chicken pox/shingles. Many virus strains sequester in your body for many years and screw up your immune system like Guillan-Barre and Epstein-Barr syndromes, fibromyalgia, Lyme Disease (which they should hurry up and find a cure/prevention for because it has destroyed so many lives of people I know).

Good point.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Byte1

New information is always interesting to me, BUT I would also appreciate it if they would give the positive along with the negative.
For instance, a friend of mine was about hysterical about the spike in Covid cases this month. I found it interesting, BUT since he seemed to be hyperventilating I decided to look up a figure that everyone should be able to appreciate. Turns out that the death rate in his state for the whole month was less than ONE DAY in the past Jan.
Maybe the Delta virus is less deadly.
Maybe the vaccination is making the virus less deadly.
Who knows? Instead of crying about how dark it is in the tunnel, how about thinking about that light that we can see at the end of the tunnel and keep on trucking towards it?

There has always been a HUGE loud honking enormous obnoxiously sickly sweet overbearing positive, that has been utterly rejected by the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers:

The vaccines, masks, hand-washing, and social distancing can all...
(say it with me, kids)
(drumroll)

REDUCE RISK.

That's right. These simple steps can reduce your risk of dying to a disease that causes you to choke to death on your own mucus.

But wait, there's more!

With these handy dandy steps, you will also reduce your risk of surviving that disease, but living with permanent lung and/or heart scarring for the rest of your life!

And that's not all!

Get these simple solutions now, and we'll toss in a reduced risk of spreading the disease to your loved ones, at no extra cost!


See? Awesome news. Now watch the deniers deny it, and blame politics.

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The only people who should not WANT to vaccinate, are people who are not eligible to vaccinate. Medically unable to handle it, and kids under 12. Everyone else should be lining up and eagerly taking the "jab," as the anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists call it.

Whoa horsey

I think you are forgetting about 34 million Americans (plus millions more asymptomatics) who have had covid and have immunity which is possibly stronger and more lasting than that given by the vaccine. CDC states that reinfections are very rare. All the news seems to be about vaccinated people catching Delta, we are not hearing about lots of covid survivors catching Delta.

If I was younger and had no serious health problems and already had covid, I'd probably decline the shots, especially seeing that the Delta can breakthrough the vaccine. If I was older, had health problems and already had covid, I'd probably get the shots.

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19 | National Institutes of Health (NIH)

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There has always been a HUGE loud honking enormous obnoxiously sickly sweet overbearing positive, that has been utterly rejected by the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers:

The vaccines, masks, hand-washing, and social distancing can all...
(say it with me, kids)
(drumroll)

REDUCE RISK.

That's right. These simple steps can reduce your risk of dying to a disease that causes you to choke to death on your own mucus.

But wait, there's more!

With these handy dandy steps, you will also reduce your risk of surviving that disease, but living with permanent lung and/or heart scarring for the rest of your life!

And that's not all!

Get these simple solutions now, and we'll toss in a reduced risk of spreading the disease to your loved ones, at no extra cost!


See? Awesome news. Now watch the deniers deny it, and blame politics.

Love it!

[Escape Artist]

I'm curious about something: if the study was done in Cape Cod after a super spreader event, i.e. a beach party, which is outdoors, and even those who had been vaccinated contracted the Delta variant of COVID, then are large outdoor gatherings risky even if they ask for proof of vaccinations and/or negative tests?

I thought the concern was over indoor events but this study seems to say that any large gathering of people is problematic. So does that mean those who attend a concert or sporting event, like a baseball game in a large stadium with people yelling and cheering in close proximity to one another, intermingling on the concourse, etc. should wear masks even though they are vaccinated and outdoors?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

They said it's more transmissable and those who are diagnosed with it have higher viral loads but there is no evidence they get any sicker. At any rate, I'm sure there will be more variants coming down the pike. Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, a leading European viriologist, warned against mass vaccinations in the middle of a pandemic because it would create dangerous variants.

Today there are at least 3 other variants now in the US. One named "Columbian" is, I believe, in Miami. And one in California. And a 3rd in the US. And yes, I saw this from an expert epidemiologist on TV. And no sorry, I don't have a link for everything.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

I'm curious about something: if the study was done in Cape Cod after a super spreader event, i.e. a beach party, which is outdoors, and even those who had been vaccinated contracted the Delta variant of COVID, then are large outdoor gatherings risky even if they ask for proof of vaccinations and/or negative tests?

I thought the concern was over indoor events but this study seems to say that any large gathering of people is problematic. So does that mean those who attend a concert or sporting event, like a baseball game in a large stadium with people yelling and cheering in close proximity to one another, intermingling on the concourse, etc. should wear masks even though they are vaccinated and outdoors?

This is all about risk.

If you're up close and personal with someone, you have a higher risk of spreading the disease, or catching the disease, than if you are at a safe social distance.

Masks can reduce the risk further.

Vaccination, SO FAR, can reduce the risk further.

Having already had COVID-19, SO FAR - can reduce the risk further.

The "so far" is because we're dealing with "what is, currently." We are dealing with the delta version which is showing more contagious than the virus that the vaccine was designed to work against.

If there are more mutations, we have no way to predict what those mutations will do. They MIGHT be less powerful. Or they might become resistant completely to the vaccines, and kill millions. We just don't know.

That's why "risk reduction" is important. It's not prevention. It's reducing risk.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by escape artist

i'm curious about something: If the study was done in cape cod after a super spreader event, i.e. A beach party, which is outdoors, and even those who had been vaccinated contracted the delta variant of covid, then are large outdoor gatherings risky even if they ask for proof of vaccinations and/or negative tests?

I thought the concern was over indoor events but this study seems to say that any large gathering of people is problematic. So does that mean those who attend a concert or sporting event, like a baseball game in a large stadium with people yelling and cheering in close proximity to one another, intermingling on the concourse, etc. Should wear masks even though they are vaccinated and outdoors?

yes!

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by John41

And no mention of cases at the southern border. iCE estimates 1.7 million illegal aliens will cross the southern border this year which is more than the state of Vermont. And Fauci says it’s not his problem.

And how many crossing that don’t get counted? IMO probably twice that amount?