[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

My reply wasn't directed at you unless you and Orange Blossom Baby are one in the same. there's too much reliance on science as if it isn't fallible, especially regarding the vaccines which are new and experimental so its effects and results are still evolving and not engraved in stone.

And to say science hasn't become politicized is untrue. I can think of two glaring examples aside from COVID but don't want to veer off topic and get the thread closed down.

Okay, you can think of Two examples. I said in my reply some have attempted to. I can provide literally thousands of examples of scientists that have not been politicized so, what does that prove?

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

No one seems to know how long the immunity conveyed by the vaccines lasts. they estimate 6-12 months. They did the trails for the Pfizer in July 2020 and tested the participants in January 2021 and they still had strong antibodies. Maybe it never goes away? That wouldn't be a good thing, either. With traditional vaccines, they are broken down by your cells over time, but we don't know what to expect with these mRNA ones.

My understanding with these mRNA vaccines is that they train the immune system to recognize the pathogen, this being the Covid virus spike protein. Even if antibodies have waned to an undetectable level, the body's immune system T Cells and B Cells will spring into action and neutralize the virus, thus stopping the infectious process in its tracks. That is where the protection is derived from the vaccine.

GE.......any comments? I think you already told me that this is a correct understanding of how these mRNA vaccines work. Do I have that right?

[drducat]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

My understanding with these mRNA vaccines is that they train the immune system to recognize the pathogen, this being the Covid virus spike protein.

This gives no T cell immunity......not a sterilizing vaccine, just B cell. To go full T Cell immunity an actual virus (dead) needs to be used, not a shape protein. It is impossible to have T cell immunity....vaccine is just a band aid, no different from Tylenol....gives protection of symptoms only and not the virus .

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

There's no "anti-vaxxer movement" and no one is stopping anyone from getting the vaccine. I know people from different walks of life, race/ethnicity, religion, income level, political ideology who do not want to get the vaccine. They have nothing else in common, only that.

If someone REALLY wants to see the anti-vaxxer movement in operation. Just watch the 1st 5 minutes of the wonderful "Tuckums" show every night at 8 PM on conTV (con for conspiracy)!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

He's not a prominent virologist.

He's a veterinarian who received his PhD in virology. His actual medical doctorate is in veterinary medicine. He's also prominent only by way of self-promotion. He's not really known for much of anything. I mean he made a big deal about speaking at a LinkdIn event in Ohio. That's the medicine world's equivalent of a motivational speaker at a regional Tupperware meeting.

That post "cuts to the core". And drives away the clouds of MISINFORMATION that are sweeping through the US from the dark sections of the web.

[jimjamuser]

Fauci's resume is impeccable. He is a legend in his field. History will remember him, not that self-promoting VETERINARIAN!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Swine Flu (H1N1) was declared a pandemic in the spring of 2009. By December of that year they had developed a traditional vaccine and were starting to administer it. That's because Swine Flu was related to other flus that humans get. It had the same components. Not so with COVID. They had to try something new. They're still figuring it out and you can see that in the CDC's backtracking, contradictions, corrections, and do-overs for the past year.

All this new study has done is create more uncertainty, confusion and distrust. Now the unvaccinated think, "why bother getting vaccinated if my old auntie is fully vaxxed and still got it anyway?"

We need a vaccine against conspiracy theories and misinformation Then maybe we could get a normal America back?

[drducat]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Fauci's resume is impeccable. He is a legend in his field. History will remember him, not that self-promoting VETERINARIAN!

It is not going to end well for Fauci....He is a phony hack.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Covid is not an influenza virus. "Flu" is short for "influenza virus." COVID-19 is short for "COronaVIrus Disease."

The veterinarian who wrote his treatise warning against the vaccine - if you were actually paying attention around the time that was written - was mostly referring to the concept that in order for a vaccine against COVID-19 to be effective, MOST people need to be vaccinated. There was no way to develop, AND test, AND manufacture, AND distribute a vaccine for COVID-19 in time for "most" people to be immunized.

That meant the virus would have had a LOT of time to mutate.

He was absolutely spot-on right, in that. But it wasn't because people COULDN'T vaccinate in time. It's because they CHOSE not to vaccinate in time.

The warnings were coming from everywhere - you get vaccinated as soon as you are eligible, as soon as the vaccine is available to you. If you don't, the virus can mutate.

Too many people said "screw that, I'll take my chances." And the virus did EXACTLY as predicted: it mutated.

If people took the "herd immunity" concept more seriously THEN, the virus wouldn't have had the opportunity to mutate NOW.

The US blew a BIG opportunity to finish off or nearly finish off CV in the US in April and May. We could have then worked to help out the world by opening up more vaccine-producing facilities in the US and worldwide. US citizens worked basically toward one goal in WW2 - to save the world from tyranny. Now in World War CV (WWCV), as a country, we have NOT been EVEN able to SAVE ourselves (from ourselves). Today, we do NOT seem like The United States - we seem united in CHAOS only - multiple different factions and tribes are pulling the US apart, not together. How does this movie end? I wonder if the Roman Empire felt like this as it began to crumble. If a VIRUS were smart enough to laugh, it would mock our feeble attempts to irradicate it.

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

If someone REALLY wants to see the anti-vaxxer movement in operation. Just watch the 1st 5 minutes of the wonderful "Tuckums" show every night at 8 PM on conTV (con for conspiracy)!

Oh, you mean the knuckle-dragging white supremacist hillbillies who call it a "plandemic" and think George Soros, Bill Gates and Obama are behind the whole thing at China's direction?

Well, you'd be wrong. Those refusing to get vaccinated are not right wing nutjobs nor Tucker Carlson/Fox News lovers but minorities - black and Latinos - who distrust the government that takes care of them, cradle to grave. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

These are supposed to be their peeps and they have pooped on their vaccination agenda! They've offered them money, incentives, in California the idiot governor is on TV spinning the lottery wheel where newly vaccinated folks are entered, they've done outreach, special vaccine clinics at parks and shopping malls. Latino men, still full of the old-school machismo, think it will make them impotent or sterile. Blacks think it's another Tuskegee experiment at their expense. And then there's the young. Well, they're supposed to be stupid, right? Full of bravado, thinking they're invincible and nothing can hurt them.

Maybe you shouldn't be so self-righteous, judgmental, sneering, and stereotyping, and realize this pandemic is all about FEAR. Fear of the virus, which I see plenty of on this forum, and fear of an experimental vaccine and its possible, unknown side effects. Both reactions are normal and human so stop trivializing and mocking other people's pain and anxiety.

[RICH1]

After almost 2 years , nobody really knows

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by John41

This virus was created in a lab using gain of function research funded by Fauci so its going be problematic. Fortunately there is a new technology being developed by last years Nobel prize winner and others that will be able to bypass the immune system antibody method and destroy the DNA of the virus directly.

I would read a link on that!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Who or what determines "respectability"? Everything, including science, has become extremely politicized so it's almost impossible to be objective. Therefore, the general public will naturally be skeptical of the "experts" and take their "respected" opinions with a grain of salt.

It is still possible to be "objective". For example, 97% of all medical Doctors have received CV shots. That fact makes a BIG impression on me. Still, in today's strange, dark media mess, some are still shilling for no vaccines and no masks. Yes, I am looking at you........Tuckums.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by drducat

This gives no T cell immunity......not a sterilizing vaccine, just B cell. To go full T Cell immunity an actual virus (dead) needs to be used, not a shape protein. It is impossible to have T cell immunity....vaccine is just a band aid, no different from Tylenol....gives protection of symptoms only and not the virus .

According to this article, mRNA vaccines do induce memory T Cell response.......

Do mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines induce memory T cell response similar to natural infection?

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

According to this article, mRNA vaccines do induce memory T Cell response.......

Do mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines induce memory T cell response similar to natural infection?

That's good news, if correct but it said the article hasn't been peer-reviewed yet.