Originally Posted by Velvet

Of course. In complete agreement.... which as you know is very unusual for two individuals in economics.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by John41

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

I thank you and Velvet for allowing us readers to share in what was an interesting and thought provoking conversation.

[Aloha1]

I also, thank the both of you for a reasoned SCIENTIFIC discussion. I do disagree on one point, that masks reduce cases. That is empirically true initially, however as evidenced by current results in countries that previously had mandatory lockdowns and mask wearing, all it did was delay the inevitable march of the virus.

Originally Posted by Aloha1

I also, thank the both of you for a reasoned SCIENTIFIC discussion. I do disagree on one point, that masks reduce cases. That is empirically true initially, however as evidenced by current results in countries that previously had mandatory lockdowns and mask wearing, all it did was delay the inevitable march of the virus.

I agree masks and lockdowns only delay the virus as we now know, at least at the mask participation levels of the general population. But, that was the only tool available (plus hand washing and social distancing) to slow the rate of infection. Even a small reduction in that rate can have an enormous impact on total number of Covid 19 cases.

Now that vaccines are available thanks to Operation Warp Speed they might produce herd immunity and eventual elimination of the virus. Hopefully, the virus will not mutate to something more deadly like ebola and revisit us. First priority of the new administration needs to be stepped up research which I think is the plan. What disturbs me the most is the politics inserted into this pandemic.

We were complacent and nature gave us a rude awakening.

[Aloha1]

Originally Posted by John41

I agree masks and lockdowns only delay the virus as we now know, at least at the mask participation levels of the general population. But, that was the only tool available (plus hand washing and social distancing) to slow the rate of infection. Even a small reduction in that rate can have an enormous impact on total number of Covid 19 cases.

Now that vaccines are available thanks to Operation Warp Speed they might produce herd immunity and eventual elimination of the virus. Hopefully, the virus will not mutate to something more deadly like ebola and revisit us. First priority of the new administration needs to be stepped up research which I think is the plan. What disturbs me the most is the politics inserted into this pandemic

We were complacent and nature gave us a rude awakening.

I agree especially with concern that the presumptive replacement at the top may slow down such research and end up reinstating too much bureaucracy and slowing progress down.

[Hoosierb4]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

I also, thank the both of you for a reasoned SCIENTIFIC discussion. I do disagree on one point, that masks reduce cases. That is empirically true initially, however as evidenced by current results in countries that previously had mandatory lockdowns and mask wearing, all it did was delay the inevitable march of the virus.

Delaying the "march of the virus" saves lives. The medical community gets more time to learn how to treat it, so the death rate is much reduced, and drug companies get time to develop vaccines. Places that got hit early had high death rates (Italy and New York, for example).

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

I agree especially with concern that the presumptive replacement at the top may slow down such research and end up reinstating too much bureaucracy and slowing progress down.

Some people need to get their heads out of our national propaganda network. Their brains are melting as they keep parroting out 1/2 truths and lies. Ring in the new year with joyous tidings of "finally" goodwill toward man.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Some people need to get their heads out of our national propaganda network. Their brains are melting as they keep parroting out 1/2 truths and lies.

And some people need to stop thinking their "opinion" is the truth and the only one that matters.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by John41

Nothing you wrote contradicts the fact the under the DPA the US could have put itself first in line and hoarded all the vaccine for itself. The allocations were done jointly with our allies and reasonable prices set. The Biden administration, to its credit, has decided to extend Operation Warp Speed because it has been so successful.

The US made its decision to NOT BUY Pfizer's 2nd batch of vaccine. So, Europe swooped in and bought them up. The motives were profit by Pfizer and intelligent negotiation and action by Europe. The US outsmarted itself - that's all - no credit to the US for humanitarian, caring motives. WE always think that as a country we are helping others. But, it is not since WW2 that WE actually did that. Now, of course, some individual non-profit US organizations help in the world (like the Bill Gates Foundation). But, somehow(?) Gates has become a pariah here in TV Land? And John Kerry and other noble citizens?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Velvet

You are missing the point. If one country has everyone living in a high rise, and the other one, people are spread out as in rural areas. Or like Zukerman and Oprah, have half an island estates.... where do you think there will be more Covid?

Don’t give up, try to think it through. I appreciate your input.

(And both in economics and engineering we did use math extensively. I do follow what you are saying.)

Zuckerberg, I believe?

[stanley]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Gates has become a pariah here in TV Land? And John Kerry and other noble citizens?

John Kerry? I wonder who are the other "noble" citizens you are thinking about

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

NOTHING, that ANY State or Country has done, has stopped this virus. Not lockdowns, not masks, NOTHING. So get off the denigration of our Governor and President.

By eliminating the usual Government agency slow dance, this Administration has facilitated the development of MULTIPLE vaccines. By June, anyone who wants it will have it. Have you all lost your common sense? Do you really need Big Brother to tell you what to do?

I am sick and tired of hearing the same rants from the same suspects on this forum. If you are all such experts why aren't you volunteering to "fix" the problem? Give it a rest.

Rant out.

The simple truth is that the US has had the world's worse reaction to the CV emergency handed to the world. Canada has minimal problems compared to the US. There has been for years an IRRATIONAL idea that the US is best at EVERYTHING. - That is a myth. - it is called ethnocentrism and jingoism - your particular country ABOVE all others. Your Ohio State football team is better than mine. Your religion is better than mine. Your race is superior to mine. That ALL is why we have racism problems right now. We have division of leadership problems right now. WE BLEW the CV problem. WE are BLOWING the Global Warming problem. And, truth be told, the US is a LAUGHING STOCK among nations, not the best #1. Why hide the truth from yourselves?

[stanley]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

And, truth be told, the US is a LAUGHING STOCK among nations, not the best #1. Why hide the truth from yourselves?

Proof please.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Yes, but people are not identical. The effect of density also depends on socioeconomic class etc. All high rises building populations are not alike. Therefore a calculus integral would not reflect the probability of Covid cases per area correctly, in my opinion.

What I was thinking was that there are large geographic areas in the US which have a low density for population. I know you may say that “per capita” takes that into account. My thinking is there are many factors which determine an equivalent comparison of different countries or even counties.

My guess is you may have an applied science type of background from your suggestion. In the social sciences we tend to use statistical analysis, regressive equations because more dissimilar factors can be included.

if I were a judge in this debate I would vote for you.

[Moderator]

This one has long strayed from the topic of distribution.

Another one bites the dust.

Moderator