[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Dasher0928

How about antibody-dependent enhancement? This will not get sorted out for up to two years. And the latest news is that those in the double blind studies, the hallmark of clinical trials, are being unblinded?? Losing vital information on real long term consequences.

Yes, antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) is indeed the purple elephant in the living room (maybe because it's so hard to understand? ) Here's an explanation. If you don't want to read the whole thing, scroll down to the two sections starting with "Risk..."

Antibody-dependent enhancement and SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and therapies | Nature Microbiology

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Did you not read Becca’s confirmation of what she has faced since she elected not to be vaccinated? I know, I know, yours is the only truth. (Big eye roll here... ) not to mention the fact that you alone post so often to discredit opposing thoughts to yours regarding vaccinations.

What’s your huge divide? Got your vaccination, good for you and that’s ALL you need to worry about. No one else needs you minding their vaccination decision.

But, but, but, what about allowing the virus to mutate and create all these variants? What about the fact that if this virus mutates to the point that the vaccines that have been administered to millions of people globally, will become ineffective? Have you thought about that?

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by stanley

You responded to someone's way of "thinking" they do not trust the CDC, NIH or Fauci , You responded by saying he's anti US government.
Yes you changed the subject......you don't agree with someone's way of thinking and then started with the conspiracy crap, because of that.

You must learn to read......I "started" no conspiracy theory "crap". I responded to a poster who brought it up, and you immediately disagreed with his thinking but used my post to respond.

Methinks the subject was changed when you responded to a post to someone who didn't make that post.

You are certainly free as yo can be to trust in and believe conspiracy theories....up to you

And by the way..."I don't trust the CDC...."or most big government" is pretty clear to me, and of course to emphasize it added "comprehend that". I did "comprehend that....can only means he/she specifically doesn't trust two very important parts of the United States Government...nor the leading expert on the current situation. But, he added that he does not believe in "most big government" to insure we all understand, I suppose.

Since MOST is non specific....sort of like "lots of people say" we cannot be sure of what exactly he means, but MOST would indicate over half of the United States Government is non trustworthy, and I suppose we wait until he decides or clarifies which exact part.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Plenty of people are suggesting that if I don’t get vaccinated, I should be punished. I shouldn’t be allowed to travel, go to theme parks, go on cruises, etc. I don’t care if you are vaccinated or not. If you are high risk, it certainly appears to be a good decision to get the vaccine. But based on my health, the smarter decision for me is to take the known odds vs the unknowns of the vaccine.

You make it all about YOU.

It's not about YOU.

As of now, certain industries would like to protect their customers and employees. If you disagree with that decision, then do not use those businesses.

You have that right

And beginning with "plenty of people" has become the catch all, but means absolutely nothing and never did.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

There are two sides to this. I say "what's the point of getting vaccinated if infected people have a 80-90% chance of having nothing more than mild symptoms" (source is listed in my previous post about this, but it's pretty common knowledge.) And if you're vaccinated and get infected, you have a 95% chance of having nothing more than mild symptoms. I'm not sure an unapproved vaccine is worth only about a 5% upgrade in one's chances of an uneventful outcome.

On the other hand, by all accounts, the vaccine will assure you of a 0% chance of hospitalization or death. So that's a considerable argument in favor of the vaccine.

Very nice explanation but, seriously, did you really feel the need to educate this poster on something that has been common knowledge for months now?

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

May I refer you to the CDC website that shows that only 0.008% of those vaccinated got breakthrough COVID???? THAT MEANS ONLY 1 IN 13,000 VACCINATED INDIVIDUALS CAN GET AND SPREAD COVID, THE OTHER 12,999 CANNOT.

I did read something about this. This is critical information, so why is it not given more attention? Aren’t Fauci and other “reliable” sources still saying you can carry and pass on the virus even if vaccinated?

Or is withholding this information a strategy to keep everyone masked and distanced thereby maintaining order as we have no way of knowing who’s been jabbed and who hasn’t?

[stanley]

Originally Posted by Bucco

You must learn to read......I "started" no conspiracy theory "crap". I responded to a poster who brought it up, and you immediately disagreed with his thinking but used my post to respond.

Wrong sir.....I completely AGREE with his thinking. Nowhere in any of my post's did I say I disagree. Reading comprehension 101
Now I need to get to work.....................until later.......fire away.........I'll be back

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

I did read something about this. This is critical information, so why is it not given more attention? Aren’t Fauci and other “reliable” sources still saying you can carry and pass on the virus even if vaccinated?

Or is withholding this information a strategy to keep everyone masked and distanced thereby maintaining order as we have no way of knowing who’s been jabbed and who hasn’t?

Have you been watching the Task Force briefings ?

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

But, but, but, what about allowing the virus to mutate and create all these variants? What about the fact that if this virus mutates to the point that the vaccines that have been administered to millions of people globally, will become ineffective? Have you thought about that?

Then getting vaccinated will have been a waste of time. I just can’t be that neurotic.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by taruffi57

Flip Side: You could listen to the MANY worldwide highly respected doctors and medical biologists who present conclusive verifiable evidence that these vaccines do not "protect" you, and, in fact, have a huge possibility of causing future medical problems. Not to mention the wide array of injuries, reactions and deaths after taking the vaccines. This info is out there, but Big Pharm, MSM and all of the social media sites are quashing it.

Our favorite response on TOTV: source please.

(Not doubting you. I’d like everyone to see some of these reports.)

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

I did read something about this. This is critical information, so why is it not given more attention? Aren’t Fauci and other “reliable” sources still saying you can carry and pass on the virus even if vaccinated?

Or is withholding this information a strategy to keep everyone masked and distanced thereby maintaining order as we have no way of knowing who’s been jabbed and who hasn’t?

I'm just guessing here, but I doubt the CDC and Fauci are recommending continued masking for the 0.008% who can get COVID after full vaccination. It may be more of a temporary practical approach to avoid problems in places like grocery stores.
Imagine you walk into Publix and half the customers are masked and half aren't. How do you know who was vaccinated? Should Publix require proof of vaccination to come inside their store unmasked? Even if they did, some people will go down an aisle and remove their mask. Then customers will start in on each other about "who doesn't care about their fellow human beings", who is "unpatriotic" and other such nonsense. So the easy solution is to continue masking, right or wrong.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Plenty of people are suggesting that if I don’t get vaccinated, I should be punished. I shouldn’t be allowed to travel, go to theme parks, go on cruises, etc. I don’t care if you are vaccinated or not. If you are high risk, it certainly appears to be a good decision to get the vaccine. But based on my health, the smarter decision for me is to take the known odds vs the unknowns of the vaccine.

That's not punishment. It's called consequences. IF you are willing to put everyone else's life at risk to mitigate an inconvenience to yourself, THEN everyone else retains the right to shut you out of their activities.

Private businesses and private enterprises have the right - the freedom - to refuse service to anyone as long as their refusal doesn't violate the rights of protected classes (based on race, national origin, disability, religion, etc). "Not being vaccinated" is not a protected class, so they are free to tell you to get lost if you can't prove that you were vaccinated.

The government also has the right to prevent you from entering on Government property without proof of vaccination. Again - it is not violating any of your protected rights. You have the right to freedom of assembly - but NOT when the building is closed and you weren't invited in. You have the right to freedom of speech - but NOT if it requires you to hack into a radio station's controls and take it over. You have the right to freedom of religion - but NOT when it involves stealing your neighbor's chicken to cut its throat as a blood sacrifice.

And - you have the right to come and go as you please - but you do not have the "right" to do so without choosing to be vaccinated. That would be a privilege, not a right.

[glsatterlee]

The reason you receive the vaccine, is so that your body will create antibodies. I have already had Covid with symptoms, I was tested and I have the antibodies from the real virus not a make-believe virus for your body to fight.

In fact they want my blood to give to other people to protect them from Covid.

There are many many people out there who had Covid and they were asymptomatic, and millions of people who had Covid with few symptoms like me. An article that I read yesterday said if you take into Account the people who knew they had it, those who did not know they had it, and those that have taken a vaccine we are very close to herd immunity already, with some states already at herd immunity.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Aces4

The increased number of deaths, according to CNBC, was 528,000. That’s quite a distance from 600,000.


Covid was third cause of death in the USA after heart disease and cancer with the highest recordings at the beginning of the pandemic and at the winter holiday period in December. Not included in those numbers were suicides related to the isolation, untreated medical conditions because people were too afraid to see their physicians and improper treatment of Covid cases.

Should we allow our government to take away the civil liberty of vaccination choice, NO!

The CDC listing for cause of death in 2020 is now available. This categorization uses the first disease listed on the record and does not include any comorbid conditions. Thus if you are listed as dying of diabetes but you also had Covid which worsened your diabetic control, you are NOT listed as a Covid death in this data set even if the Covid sped your demise.

For 2020 rounded numbers there were 345 thousand Covid deaths. The total increased deaths over 2019 were 504 thousand

Despite the predictions of some, and the statement you made about suicide, the actual suicide deaths decreased to its lowest number since 2015.

I have no idea what you mean about improper treatment of Covid as apparently you have some specific knowledge about doctors failing to provide proper care. I would suggest that if such a thing happened, it was Covid that killed the patient as I doubt any doctors deliberately mistreated patients unless you are referring to possible deaths from medications that were being promoted and didn't work.

No data is available on excess deaths from people not seeking medical care. It certainly may have been a factor, but you assert without data that it is the case. There is data on this factor from patient report, but nothing about any resulting morbidity. There was an increase in deaths from heart disease, stroke, and diabetes in 2020. There is not data to say whether these were people who had ignored symptoms or people who received care but Covid worsened their status leading to death.

Importantly the data is through the end of the final week of 2020. This fails to capture the enormous number of Covid deaths that occurred in the first several weeks of 2021, see graph below. We now stand at 572 thousand primary Covid deaths per Johns Hopkins tracker.

The big picture is that there was a huge increase in overall mortality in 2020. This completely refutes the Covid is a hoax, the numbers are bogus etc. argument I have heard and read often.

I actually 100% agree with you that the government should not compel anyone to get a vaccination. I do believe that the government has the power to limit the activities of those that make the choice to not be vaccinated. Your child cannot go to public school without vaccines. You cannot attend most colleges without vaccines. You have the freedom of speech, but not the freedom to not have consequences for what you say. The Nazis can march in Skokie, protected speech, but when they lose their jobs, that is a consequence that is not protected. You can decline vaccination, but if you cannot cruise or attend a Yankees game, consequences.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Fieldsaj

My niece, a nurse, was vaccinated at work. A month later (April) she contracted Covid and infected 8 more members of her extended
family. Her husband ended up in the hospital on a respirator.
Get it into your heads. One cannot go back to normal for a long while.
Last year, the CDC had political constraints to account for changing advice and the fact that they are learning more daily.

Did your niece contract Covid at least two weeks after her second shot or was it before the immunity was fully achieved?