[blueash]

So many of you are jumping all over the OP because of his well known anti-Covid vaccine opinion, actually his opinion that Covid is a nothing burger. But it is just as anti-scientific to disregard a potential rare but serious side effect of a vaccine. The numbers of reported clots are tiny compared with the number of vaccines given. It is incumbent that the responsible agencies conduct their analysis.

There are other options for vaccines and if it turns out this one has a side effect that exceeds the risk of other vaccines, then that needs to be considered in balancing risk vs benefit for each recipient.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by blueash

So many of you are jumping all over the OP because of his well known anti-Covid vaccine opinion, actually his opinion that Covid is a nothing burger. But it is just as anti-scientific to disregard a potential rare but serious side effect of a vaccine. The numbers of reported clots are tiny compared with the number of vaccines given. It is incumbent that the responsible agencies conduct their analysis.

There are other options for vaccines and if it turns out this one has a side effect that exceeds the risk of other vaccines, then that needs to be considered in balancing risk vs benefit for each recipient.

For the vast majority of us (all of us in the US) the AstraZenica vaccine is NOT AN OPTION.

The OP SEEMS to be grasping at straws and using a minute number of possibly (likely?) unrelated events from a vaccine that is not even an option in the US in order to justify his anti-vaccine position and to warn/convince/frighten others into agreeing with him.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

For the vast majority of us (all of us in the US) the AstraZenica vaccine is NOT AN OPTION.

The OP SEEMS to be grasping at straws and using a minute number of possibly (likely?) unrelated events from a vaccine that is not even an option in the US in order to justify his anti-vaccine position and to warn/convince/frighten others into agreeing with him.

75% of US citizens say that they would take a vaccine that was considered safe by medical experts. In most countries of Europe, it is less at about 60%. That is why the Europeans were quick to block and further study the AstraZeneca vaccine. Italy has a large anti-vaxxer attitude and that is a major reason that their cases are high and INCREASING, while right now US cases are decreasing and lower on a per 100,000 basis than Italy. Interestingly, Sweden which was extolled early on for its trial of "herd immunity" now has a HUGE problem, a high number of cases and they are INCREASING. Remember ALL the posts about how much "smarter" Sweden was than the US. Look at the numbers now!

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

...

Interestingly, Sweden which was extolled early on for its trial of "herd immunity" now has a HUGE problem, a high number of cases and they are INCREASING. Remember ALL the posts about how much "smarter" Sweden was than the US. Look at the numbers now!

Good point, had forgotten about Sweden.

JHU site appears to be down today but as of three days ago, Sweden's death per capita was better than US, Italy, and the UK and was about the same as Brazil. Comparing the country to US states, Sweden is doing better than NY, CA, FL, CT, ND, and SD and about the same as MD and MN.

Had they taken the same approach as all of those we would say they were doing pretty well. Given that they took a much more hands-off approach, they seem to have come through very well.

We'll see what the stats look like when the JHU site comes back up.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Good point, had forgotten about Sweden.

JHU site appears to be down today but as of three days ago, Sweden's death per capita was better than US, Italy, and the UK and was about the same as Brazil. Comparing the country to US states, Sweden is doing better than NY, CA, FL, CT, ND, and SD and about the same as MD and MN.

Had they taken the same approach as all of those we would say they were doing pretty well. Given that they took a much more hands-off approach, they seem to have come through very well.

We'll see what the stats look like when the JHU site comes back up.

Where I got my information, it was CLEARLY stated that Sweden was one of the worse in Europe. And way worse than the US. So, one of us is wrong and if I thought it was me, I would research it more. Which I don't and which I won't. So, on the SLIM chance that I am wrong, I will say a SLIM sorry.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Where I got my information, it was CLEARLY stated that Sweden was one of the worse in Europe. And way worse than the US. So, one of us is wrong and if I thought it was me, I would research it more. Which I don't and which I won't. So, on the SLIM chance that I am wrong, I will say a SLIM sorry.

Where did you get your information and what was the metric that was "way worse than the US"?

As stated, my information came from the JHU COVID-19 Map. Absolute number of deaths, CFR, and deaths per capita (population numbers from worldometers or statista) all favor Sweden.

But don't take my word for it, actually do some research.

[blueash]

Now the review of clotting issues is complete and the vaccine has been found safe. There are no more clotting issue in vaccine recipients than would be expected by random chance. That means that people who did not get a vaccine have the same rate of clots as people who get it. Will people hear about this outcome or just remember the news stories about the risk of clots. We all know how that will end.

The European Union’s drug regulatory agency said Thursday that the AstraZeneca vaccine doesn’t increase the overall incidence of blood clots and that the benefits of using it outweigh the possible risks, paving the way for European countries to resume dispensing the shots....
In its findings Thursday, the EMA said the overall number of clotting events of various sorts reported since the rollout is lower than what would be expected in the general population.

But those very common clots aren’t the kind causing concern. Instead, the EMA said it will continue to look closely at two rare types of blood clots. It cited seven reports of a type that appears in multiple blood vessels and 18 reports of a kind called cerebral venous thrombosis, which occurs in a vein that drains blood from the brain.

That’s out of the 20 million people who have received at least one dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine in Britain and the EU.

Most of those cases were in people younger than 55 and the majority were women, the EMA said.

Experts said it will be critical to uncover if something predisposed those people to these rare clots. For example, before the pandemic, the brain-related clots almost always occurred in people with certain risk factors such as taking birth control pills, or any of a list of underlying conditions that affect clotting.

[JP]

Just read this morning that USA "donating" 4 million doses of AstraZeneca vaccine to Canada and Mexico. Hmmm.....Coincidence?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JP

Just read this morning that USA "donating" 4 million doses of AstraZeneca vaccine to Canada and Mexico. Hmmm.....Coincidence?

Possibly, but the US is also sitting on all those doses with no use for them in the near term. The US has ordered more than enough of the other vaccines for everyone in the country and AstraZeneca has not yet applied for the EUA to use this vaccine in the US. If other countries need it and can make use of it and we don't need it then why not make it available? Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to release it.

[Two Bills]

The Oxford/Astra Zenica has been put down on several occasions by European Politicians as revenge for Brexit, especially by the French, because their vaccine didn't work.
The stories were perpetuated by other Pharma Companies because of the low price of the AZ vaccine compared to their prices.
There have been side effects with other brands of the vaccine, but with none of the very public scrutiny.
Considering the number of official tests and clearances done on the AZ vaccine, it is probably one of the safest vaccines out there!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

So many of you are jumping all over the OP because of his well known anti-Covid vaccine opinion, actually his opinion that Covid is a nothing burger. But it is just as anti-scientific to disregard a potential rare but serious side effect of a vaccine. The numbers of reported clots are tiny compared with the number of vaccines given. It is incumbent that the responsible agencies conduct their analysis.

There are other options for vaccines and if it turns out this one has a side effect that exceeds the risk of other vaccines, then that needs to be considered in balancing risk vs benefit for each recipient.

Thank you for your wise assessment of this issue.

Our daughter and husband received Astra-Zenaca yesterday in London.

It has not yet been approved by the U.S. health agencies.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Thank you for your wise assessment of this issue.

Our daughter and husband received Astra-Zenaca yesterday in London.

It has not yet been approved by the U.S. health agencies.

Our eldest daughter, and most of my friends have had the AZ. vaccine. None have had any side effect apart from a sore arm, or a headache.
Apart from an early crop of Brussel Sprouts growing from our ears, the wife and I have had no ill effects from the Pfizer jabs either!

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

The Oxford/Astra Zenica has been put down on several occasions by European Politicians as revenge for Brexit, especially by the French, because their vaccine didn't work.
The stories were perpetuated by other Pharma Companies because of the low price of the AZ vaccine compared to their prices.
There have been side effects with other brands of the vaccine, but with none of the very public scrutiny.
Considering the number of official tests and clearances done on the AZ vaccine, it is probably one of the safest vaccines out there!

Please stop with the conspiracy theories or produce links that "other Pharma Companies" are spreading stories. You made that up or got it from some unreliable source. These reports were created as part of the normal process which we also have in the US of reporting any and all reactions to medications to a federal agency. This is how the clotting cases were detected in several European countries. It was not because some Pfizer spy was blind calling all AZ recipients to see if they could gin up panic. Your accusation is outrageous.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by blueash

Please stop with the conspiracy theories or produce links that "other Pharma Companies" are spreading stories. You made that up or got it from some unreliable source. These reports were created as part of the normal process which we also have in the US of reporting any and all reactions to medications to a federal agency. This is how the clotting cases were detected in several European countries. It was not because some Pfizer spy was blind calling all AZ recipients to see if they could gin up panic. Your accusation is outrageous.

I thought it was quite a good theory.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Where did you get your information and what was the metric that was "way worse than the US"?

As stated, my information came from the JHU COVID-19 Map. Absolute number of deaths, CFR, and deaths per capita (population numbers from worldometers or statista) all favor Sweden.

But don't take my word for it, actually do some research.

Well, Wild Bill as I have mentioned in some of my other posts, I do NOT, NOT, NOT go out of my way to quote sources - as others seem to have a FETISH about. I am not a professional Journalist. This is a pukey little discussion group about opinions mostly. If you choose to submit articles to Scientific American up to their standards for publication - so be it! I PURPOSEFULLY do NOT, NOT put links and prove sources when I write in this forum. It would take too much time and take all the small amount of joy that I might get out of writing MY OPINION here! If MY opinion, which I have said that I get from CASUALLY watching TV and reading - is NOT good enough for some people to deem to read - then they should FOREGO reading MY stuff. I do NOT watch TV with a pen to take notes and research any or all of MY opinions. And note that on THIS forum and in this polarized opinion environment, if I said that I read something in the NY Times then 60% of the people would say that that is a no-good commie newspaper and disregard what I wrote just from that. And if I said that I saw it on Tucker Carlson then 40% of the people hear would automatically say to disregard that as lies.

So, I will continue with my personal policy of NOT quoting sources. And I WILL show links NO MORE FOREVER !!!!!!