[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

You seem hellbent on denying or at least ignoring the racial/racist component of the whole George Floyd issue. This has been beaten around ad nauseum on numerous threads, many of which you've started and/or commented on. Why keep picking at the same scab, day after day after day?

Throughout this whole thing, I have missed the evidence that this was racist/racially motivated.
Can you please point me to anything that indicates this was a racist cop and not just a cop that used excessive force against someone?

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by Byte1

"You seem hellbent on denying or at least ignoring the racial/racist component of the whole George Floyd issue."

Is there evidence that the death was racially motivated? Isn't the presumption that it was racist by someone, make them the racist?

Booker T Washington:
“There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.”

"There is a certain class of race problem-solvers who don't want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public."

Come on, read what I say, not how you'd like to spin it. The "whole George Floyd issue" is NOT only about whether or not not his death was brought about by a racist cop. It is about police racism blacks experience in everyday life. The video of George Floyd's death, with the seemingly cavalier attitude of Officer Chauvin while George kept saying that he couldn't breathe & then calling for his mother were only the spark.

The 100+ year old quote means what exactly? That there is no such thing as racism in the 21st century? Booker T. Washington had many great, optimistic quotes attributed to him. He may well have had other thoughts had he lived through most of the Jim Crow days.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

Throughout this whole thing, I have missed the evidence that this was racist/racially motivated.
Can you please point me to anything that indicates this was a racist cop and not just a cop that used excessive force against someone?

Sorry, I missed the part where I said that Officer Chauvin was a proven racist...

[Biggles]

The media story is that George Floyd died from asphyxiation—“I can’t breathe”—from a police officer’s knee on his neck. This story is not supported by the autopsy and toxicology reports.
The autopsy report says Floyd died of a heart attack and that no life-threatening injuries were inflicted by police restraint. The medical examiner found no physical evidence to “support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.” The toxicology report says that the concentration of Fentanyl in Floyd’s blood was more than three times the fatal dose. Fentanyl is a dangerous opioid. Reports that the coroner ruled Floyd’s death a homicide are incorrect. The word “homicide” does not appear in the report.
As for Floyd’s neck, the autopsy report states there are “no areas of contusion or hemorrhage . . . The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.”
Excited Delirium Syndrome (EXD) typically results from fatal drug overdose. The condition results in breathing problems and cardiopulmonary arrest. These were the symptoms that Floyd showed.
The full Coroner Report can be found by clicking on the following link:
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...3700_Floyd.pdf

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=Bikeracer2009;1795909

Now, imagine you’re a 23 year old black guy walking down the street in Aurora Colorado and you haven’t done anything wrong. The police stop you and ask for your identification. You ask why? You are now resisting and so the cop gets annoyed and this leads to him being a little heavy handed. It’s Obvious to you that this isn’t going to end well. You tell him you want to cooperate but just want to know why he stopped you. He grabs you and tries to take you to the ground. You tell him that you’re an introverted person, just different and just want to be left alone. The cop puts you in a chokehold as backup arrives. You tell them you can’t breathe as you lay there face down unable to move. They put you in handcuffs and called first responders to inject you with a ketamine. You suffer a heart attack on the way to the hospital and days later you are brain dead. Your name is Elijah McClain.

[/QUOTE]

How about you comply with the officer's instruction to show your ID, as required by law, instead of being a wise a$$. Then none of the subsequent events occur.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

Come on, read what I say, not how you'd like to spin it. The "whole George Floyd issue" is NOT only about whether or not not his death was brought about by a racist cop. It is about police racism blacks experience in everyday life. The video of George Floyd's death, with the seemingly cavalier attitude of Officer Chauvin while George kept saying that he couldn't breathe & then calling for his mother were only the spark.

The 100+ year old quote means what exactly? That there is no such thing as racism in the 21st century? Booker T. Washington had many great, optimistic quotes attributed to him. He may well have had other thoughts had he lived through most of the Jim Crow days.

Anyone watching that video was appalled. I have yet to hear one person defend that officer's restraint method. Floyd was on drugs and had not been particularly cooperative with the officer. But more telling, and something that we did not know right away, is Chauvin had a second night job as a bouncer (I think) where Floyd was also employed and the two men did not like each other. So there was a personal level to this incident as well.

Again, no one is defending Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck like that for so long. That was outrageous and wrong. BUT, I also do not think that this incident is a matter of cut and dry racism, either, because Floyd had been somewhat resistant with the officer and these two men personally did not like each other.

Chauvin should have stepped aside and let the other officers handle Floyd's arrest.

[Gulfcoast]

Floyd had more than 3 times the lethal dose of Fentanyl in his blood. He was getting ready to drive off in a car when the officers ordered him out of his vehicle. He was absolutely a threat to not only himself but his 2 passengers and every other driver on the road. His arrest was absolutely justified. It was the type of restraint used by officer Chauvin that is in question.

[Moderator]

This thread has strayed far from the original topic. Please return to that topic or the thread will be closed.

Moderator

[Byte1]

Gotta say, this just sounds like more excuses for bad behavior.
A kid acts up at the dinner table in front of guests. The parent says "just ignore him, he's going through his terrible twos." A kid acts up at the table in front of guests and the parent says "ignore him, he's going through puberty." A kid acts up at school and the parent says "its the other kids that are a bad influence on him." A kid commits a crime and liberals say "he came from a ghetto and he is from a fatherless home." Who's fault is it? Is it the deviant or those that coddle and make excuses?
Then we start discussing prisons. How prisons are responsible for the "black plight" one can only imagine. Another excuse for bad behavior.
A statement that suggests that "laws were created to keep prison beds full" is irresponsible blather. Laws were made to inform citizens that bad behavior is not tolerated. Prisons would be empty if not for criminal activity. Making an irresponsible statement like that is the same as saying that hospitals were made to create more sick people.
Another statement that prisons are a "cash flow" for Trump makes it sound like Trump is profiting from prisons. I would be interested in seeing proof of such profiting, and do not consider campaign contributions to be "profiting."
I still have not seen any indication that being "white" in The Villages is an indication of "white privilege." Being born a particular color is not a "privilege." Perhaps someone needs to remind folks of definitions from time to time so that they do not get stuck in the habit of repeating popular misconceptions.
Privilege: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.
In today's America, what "privilege" does a white person have that the black person does not? This is rhetorical question because the proper answer does not include IMPLIED privilege. There are minority residents in The Villages, so that kind of shuts down the argument that Villagers share "white privilege." I have seen nothing in writing the stipulates that The Villages is a "white" community or that there is a quota for minorities.
Living in The Villages does not make one a "racist." Are there racist living in The Villages? Probably. I have not seen anything denying residency in the Villages to racists.
Nope, misusing a race based term as a slur is irresponsible.
Last night, I was browsing YouTube and came across a video by Ms.Owens. She made an interesting statement that I believe is undeniable and very distressing. She said in a nutshell that the Black community protects, honors and martyrs criminal behavior by other blacks. She went on to say that NO other minority group or whites act like this, and actually ostracize criminal behavior. She said that the black community honors the lowest of character while the rest of the country honors the best, successful or highest character. Until the black community admits that it has a problem, no amount of money, special quotas or benefits are going to change those problems. And excuses aren't helping either.

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009

"Being black is not an excuse for being a failure" and "white privilege"

Looking at some numbers that tell a different story.

Facts come from sentencingproject.org

“The war on drugs and harsher sentencing policies, including mandatory minimum sentences, fueled a rapid expansion in the nation’s prison population beginning in the 80’s. The resulting burden on the public sector led to the modern emergence of for-profit private prisons in many states and at the federal level.”

The facts presented on this website state the following;

The United States has the largest private prison population.
This includes immigration detention facilities.
Private prisons pay far less, train less and have higher numbers of riots, deaths, contraband, lockdowns and discipline.
Recidivism is much higher with private prisons.
Profit seeking creates a race to the bottom to cut cost.
The two largest private prison corporations are Core Civic and GEO.
These two companies also own halfway houses, ankle bracelet monitoring company and prison healthcare services.
The Obama administration wanted to phase out private contracts which showed a modest decline in in private prison use however, in 2017 Jeff Sessions announced the reversal of this plan. This reversal was followed by prosecutors seeking tougher sentences.
Immigration detention centers are required to maintain 34,000 detainees. 2018 Trump asked Congress for $1.2 Billion to add another 15,000 beds
U.S. General Accounting Office study showed no substantial savings using private prisons.
In order to insure future profits, private prison companies have joined with lawmakers, corporations and interest groups to advocate for mandatory minimum sentences, three strikes laws and truth-in-sentencing, all of which contribute to higher prison populations.
GEO is the biggest contributor to Trump’s cash flow. I’m not attacking Trump. Many politicians are receiving cash payment from private prison companies.

40 years of unprecedented growth in our prison population, fracturing of low-income communities of color, laws meant to keep prison beds full, no incentive to rehabilitate prisoners and less chances of getting a good job after prison. This is the revolving door of our prison system.

Between 1980 and 2015 the number of people incarcerated in America increased from from roughly 500,000 to over 2.2 million.
21% of the world’s prison population is in America but America only has 5% of the world’s population.
1 in 37 adults is under correctional supervision.
Blacks and Hispanics are 56% of the prison population.
4 times as many whites use drugs than blacks but blacks have 6 times more drug charges.

Imagine being a poor black child in America. You’re told that the police want to put you in jail. The police presence in your neighborhood is much higher than in middle class white neighborhoods. When a white person sees a police car drive through his neighborhood he probably thinks it’s a good thing and when a black person sees a cop they think the cops are looking to round up some prisoner$$. Stop and frisk laws require citizens to stop and tell a police officer their name. Florida Statute 901.151 if you want to look it up. A cop can detain you if they believe you have committed a crime, was committing a crime or was about to commit a crime.

Now, imagine you’re a 23 year old black guy walking down the street in Aurora Colorado and you haven’t done anything wrong. The police stop you and ask for your identification. You ask why? You are now resisting and so the cop gets annoyed and this leads to him being a little heavy handed. It’s Obvious to you that this isn’t going to end well. You tell him you want to cooperate but just want to know why he stopped you. He grabs you and tries to take you to the ground. You tell him that you’re an introverted person, just different and just want to be left alone. The cop puts you in a chokehold as backup arrives. You tell them you can’t breathe as you lay there face down unable to move. They put you in handcuffs and called first responders to inject you with a ketamine. You suffer a heart attack on the way to the hospital and days later you are brain dead. Your name is Elijah McClain.

There's billions of dollars being made by putting people of all colors in prison and keeping them there for as long as possible, especially the black population.

Would you want to be a poor black person?

Being white has its privileges here in the villages. A person posted recently that a person came to her door selling roofing services. She stated that the person's race wasn't something she wanted to mention because of the political environment but we all knew what race she was talking about. This guy didn't do anything wrong according to her own story but she insisted he was a scammer! She told him to leave her property and followed him to the neighbors door where she advised her neighbor not to trust this person. As it turned out from the replies to her post, this young man was not a criminal but an honest guy just doing his job. The only thing this guy did wrong was being born black.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

How about you comply with the officer's instruction to show your ID, as required by law, instead of being a wise a$$. Then none of the subsequent events occur.

“Comply with the police and stop being a wise a$$”

There’s a 3 hour video of the entire event from the time McClain purchased food while dressed for the cool late night Colorado weather. McClain was anemic, low body weight and was often cold. The 911 caller said that McClain had done nothing wrong but he looked suspicious wearing a mask. The police are dispatched and the video picks up from various police body cams.

McClain is seen walking with his grocies on the sidewalk holding his cellphone which is playing music. The video shows 3 officers run up to him saying “stop right there”. McClain lifts his phone to turn down the volume as the police office grabs his right arm which is holding the phone. McClain is heard saying “you have no right to stop me” “I was just turning down my music so I could hear you”. I guess this “wise a$$” has just earned a death sentence.

The officer later states that when he grabbed McClain “he tensed up and I told him to relax or I’m going to have to change this situation”. In the video McClain is complying and says “let go of me”. The office says “No, stop tensing up”. McClain says “I am an introvert, respect the boundaries I’m speaking”. “I was turning my music down so I could hear you.” They force him to the ground and repeatedly say “relax”, “stop dude”. You don’t see him but you hear him grunting as the police call in backup “Send more units, we’re fighting him!”. You can hear McCain sobbing as they cuff him. Begging them to stop, “I can’t breathe” and apologizing for not having an I.D. He tells them his full name and continues to beg them to stop while sobbing and struggling to breath. I guess struggling to breathe is also resisting arrest and being a wise a$$.

McClain was facing 5 years in prison and he knew it. Like most poor blacks know first-hand that when the police ask for backup the police also bring with them an a$$ whopping. The police supervisor is seen waving his arms around asking if McClain had done any other than being suspicious? The entire block is lit up with squad cars. A female cop calls the 911 caller back to ask what happened? The guy said McClain did nothing wrong but looked suspicious. The female cop and another cop look around and say “I think we have enough police on this call” and laugh.

It’s painfully obvious that McClain is a troubled young man as he lays on the ground sobbing and telling the police he’s not a bad person and that he just wanted to go home. You here the police talking about McClain going for an officer’s gun. You hear McClain say sorry I was just moving my arm so I could breathe as they talk about the charges they’re going to pin on him. You don’t see McClain but you hear a cop tell him as nothing seems to be going on that “if you keep messing around I’m going to bring my dog over here”. McClain responds struggling to say I can’t breathe”. The officers keep saying “stop fighting us” as McClain shifts around to breathe. Keep in mind there’s no noise of a struggle. The police are casually talking to other officers on the scene about the moves they put on him. A hammer lock and maybe they should put a figure 4 on him now. The female officer is heard saying “he just had a mask on and that’s it”

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Biggles

The media story is that George Floyd died from asphyxiation—“I can’t breathe”—from a police officer’s knee on his neck. This story is not supported by the autopsy and toxicology reports.
The autopsy report says Floyd died of a heart attack and that no life-threatening injuries were inflicted by police restraint. The medical examiner found no physical evidence to “support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.” The toxicology report says that the concentration of Fentanyl in Floyd’s blood was more than three times the fatal dose. Fentanyl is a dangerous opioid. Reports that the coroner ruled Floyd’s death a homicide are incorrect. The word “homicide” does not appear in the report.
As for Floyd’s neck, the autopsy report states there are “no areas of contusion or hemorrhage . . . The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.”
Excited Delirium Syndrome (EXD) typically results from fatal drug overdose. The condition results in breathing problems and cardiopulmonary arrest. These were the symptoms that Floyd showed.
The full Coroner Report can be found by clicking on the following link:
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...3700_Floyd.pdf

I may have missed it........it's been very quite........what did the family autopsy indicate.

(not that i'm relying on, just wondering what the paid doctor said)

[Byte1]

And your evidence is???? Sorry, but someone using racism out of context is the same as using sexism as an excuse for being fired for incompetence. That dog don't hunt.

Still, no evidence that this was anything more than excessive force by an over zealous COP. Considering the fact that out of four COPS on the scene, only two were white makes it interesting, no?

Originally Posted by roscoguy

Come on, read what I say, not how you'd like to spin it. The "whole George Floyd issue" is NOT only about whether or not not his death was brought about by a racist cop. It is about police racism blacks experience in everyday life. The video of George Floyd's death, with the seemingly cavalier attitude of Officer Chauvin while George kept saying that he couldn't breathe & then calling for his mother were only the spark.

The 100+ year old quote means what exactly? That there is no such thing as racism in the 21st century? Booker T. Washington had many great, optimistic quotes attributed to him. He may well have had other thoughts had he lived through most of the Jim Crow days.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

I may have missed it........it's been very quite........what did the family autopsy indicate.

(not that i'm relying on, just wondering what the paid doctor said)

That Floyd was dead. I believe it was something like "suicide by COP."

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009

“Comply with the police and stop being a wise a$$”



McClain is seen walking with his grocies on the sidewalk holding his cellphone which is playing music. The video shows 3 officers run up to him saying “stop right there”. McClain lifts his phone to turn down the volume as the police office grabs his right arm which is holding the phone. McClain is heard saying “you have no right to stop me” “I was just turning down my music so I could hear you”. I guess this “wise a$$” has just earned a death sentence.

You just proved my point. He needed to stop and show his ID, NOT start a debate.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Biggles

The media story is that George Floyd died from asphyxiation—“I can’t breathe”—from a police officer’s knee on his neck. This story is not supported by the autopsy and toxicology reports.
The autopsy report says Floyd died of a heart attack and that no life-threatening injuries were inflicted by police restraint. The medical examiner found no physical evidence to “support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.” The toxicology report says that the concentration of Fentanyl in Floyd’s blood was more than three times the fatal dose. Fentanyl is a dangerous opioid. Reports that the coroner ruled Floyd’s death a homicide are incorrect. The word “homicide” does not appear in the report.
As for Floyd’s neck, the autopsy report states there are “no areas of contusion or hemorrhage . . . The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.”
Excited Delirium Syndrome (EXD) typically results from fatal drug overdose. The condition results in breathing problems and cardiopulmonary arrest. These were the symptoms that Floyd showed.
The full Coroner Report can be found by clicking on the following link:
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...3700_Floyd.pdf

You did a great job of linking the autopsy report but not of understanding it. He did not have three times the fatal dose of fentanyl. I have no idea where you come up with that number but it is wrong. Your claim that the word homicide does not appear in the physical autopsy report is correct. That is a report of physical and lab findings. It is not the report of cause of death. As your entire premise is that he died from a drug overdose and heart attack and that the officers just happened to be there I offer you the actual image and link to the report, not from the private pathologist who did a second autopsy, but from the medical examiner's office who did the first one and to which you linked.. READ THIS For those who do not click on links I will post a snip of the highlight which lists the official cause of death of Mr. Lloyd.

Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual,
restraint, and neck compression
Manner of death: Homicide [my font]

Note that the use of the term homicide by a medical examiner is not a legal finding but a medical one. That means Mr. Lloyd was killed, he did not die of natural causes or of a drug overdose. If you wish to educate yourself about excited delirium and how it does not apply to Mr. Lloyd, read THIS from MedpageToday.com