[Aloha1]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

And you only posted the high end of the range. The table below showing typically fewer than 30,000 flu deaths would be just as accurate:

2016-2017: 29,000
2017-2018: 46,000
2018-2019: 26,000

I disagree. The CDC numbers are their best guess but they acknowledge they could be higher or lower, hence the range. Bottom line, I guess, is we have no way of knowing EXACTLY how many have died from the flu over the last few years, but we are "absolutely certain" how many have died from Covid. Food for thought.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

I disagree. The CDC numbers are their best guess but they acknowledge they could be higher or lower, hence the range. Bottom line, I guess, is we have no way of knowing EXACTLY how many have died from the flu over the last few years, but we are "absolutely certain" how many have died from Covid. Food for thought.

"We" aren't "absolutely certain" but I believe the CDC numbers that show more than 500,000 excess deaths in 2020. Lacking any other reasonable explanation, these excess deaths must be due to Covid. While the number of flu deaths in 2018 was in the range 46,000 to 95,000, there were ten times as many Covid-related deaths in 2020.

All deaths matter and it would be nice to reduce the number of any deaths but a new condition that causes one half million deaths in a single year (and additional deaths into the next) is worth special attention.

[Aloha1]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

"We" aren't "absolutely certain" but I believe the CDC numbers that show more than 500,000 excess deaths in 2020. Lacking any other reasonable explanation, these excess deaths must be due to Covid. While the number of flu deaths in 2018 was in the range 46,000 to 95,000, there were ten times as many Covid-related deaths in 2020.

All deaths matter and it would be nice to reduce the number of any deaths but a new condition that causes one half million deaths in a single year (and additional deaths into the next) is worth special attention.

I understand your perspective but I won't rehash all the other variables in reporting such as how deaths were coded, why there were few flu or pneumonia deaths recorded, etc. People died, that is true. Some even from Covid. But we may never know exactly how many.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I know. I was attempting to use a little humorous bad math to demonstrate how preposterous some of the numbers are out there.

Of course, the flu did not just miraculously vanish and car accidents did decline because people were driving less. Yet, I have still heard tales about car accident victims' deaths being labeled as Covid related. I've heard of a person, who died from sepsis stemming from an untreated urinary tract infection, have their death labeled Covid.

The CDC has confirmed that the number of deaths caused by Covid alone are pretty low. Most of the deaths had significant other causes associated with them.

That explains why the schools that have reopened along with service industry and healthcare workers haven't been absolutely decimated by the virus. In fact, they've fared pretty darned well.

I seem to remember lots of health care workers dying in NYC early in the Pandemic.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Which vaccine is England using to vaccinate their population? Is it the AZ vaccine? I don't follow what is happening with any vaccines with the exception of the mRNA vaccines. So far, the mRNA vaccines seem to be extremely safe and effective against the variants.

Not sure which vaccine England is using? But the CV in Africa and Brazil looks different under a microscope. It has been detected in England and they are having 2nd thoughts about opening up their society.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

I understand your perspective but I won't rehash all the other variables in reporting such as how deaths were coded, why there were few flu or pneumonia deaths recorded, etc. People died, that is true. Some even from Covid. But we may never know exactly how many.

How about counting the amount of refrigerated trucks that were used as makeshift morgues? How about counting the makeshift hospital units that were set up in public ramp garages for the excessive amount of patients? How about counting all those patients that were turned away from hospitals because they were overwhelmed with excess patients? How about those EMTs that had to make decisions of who is transported to hospitals and who was left to die at home? How about all those exhausted health care workers pleading with America to wear masks and social distance? Many of them suffer from PTSD today.

I could go on an on and on and on. Anyone who is not aware of these horrendous scenarios was just not watching, reading and listening to news sources that were reporting what was happening in our country. No sugar coating was done. I saw with my own eyes those scenarios. This was our America??

[stanley]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I could go on an on and on and on. Anyone who is not aware of these horrendous scenarios was just not watching, reading and listening to news sources that were reporting what was happening in our country. No sugar coating was done. I saw with my own eyes those scenarios. This was our America??

Ahhhh......that's the key......the media

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

How about counting the amount of refrigerated trucks that were used as makeshift morgues? How about counting the makeshift hospital units that were set up in public ramp garages for the excessive amount of patients? How about counting all those patients that were turned away from hospitals because they were overwhelmed with excess patients? How about those EMTs that had to make decisions of who is transported to hospitals and who was left to die at home? How about all those exhausted health care workers pleading with America to wear masks and social distance? Many of them suffer from PTSD today.

I could go on an on and on and on. Anyone who is not aware of these horrendous scenarios was just not watching, reading and listening to news sources that were reporting what was happening in our country. No sugar coating was done. I saw with my own eyes those scenarios. This was our America??

The problem was you were watching the news. You were shown what they wanted you to see. Fear sells...

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by stanley

Ahhhh......that's the key.......media

How else would I have seen with my own two eyes what was going on in those decimated cities? I watched it unfold on my television and it was not a made for TV movie. It was real life and I was truly disheartened to know that was happening in our country. I never thought I would see anything like that in our lifetime in American cities.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Swoop

The problem was you were watching the news. You were shown what they wanted you to see. Fear sells...

But, it happened. Am I supposed to not believe what is shown on the news source that I watch? As I said already, those scenes were not from a TV movie, they were real life happenings. So, I got to see the devastation and those who watched other news sources were not treated to those horrendous scenes. They censored what was happening. Do you condone that? I surely don't.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

But, it happened. Am I supposed to not believe what is shown on the news source that I watch? As I said already, those scenes were not from a TV movie, they were real life happenings. So, I got to see the devastation and those who watched other news sources were not treated to those horrendous scenes. They censored what was happening. Do you condone that? I surely don't.

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see."

You trust what you see and hear where the MSM is concerned, fine. Not many of "us" do
They got you.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

But, it happened. Am I supposed to not believe what is shown on the news source that I watch? As I said already, those scenes were not from a TV movie, they were real life happenings. So, I got to see the devastation and those who watched other news sources were not treated to those horrendous scenes. They censored what was happening. Do you condone that? I surely don't.

Like the NY governor claiming he was out of ventilators and doctors would have to choose which patients would be allowed access to ventilators to survive. As it turns out they didn’t even use their own stockpile. Or the overrun hospitals, where the Javits Center was turned into a temporary hospital, that saw almost no patients. Or the need for the military hospital ship, that sailed away virtually unused. The bodies that had to be stored in refrigerated trucks was because the governor shut down funeral homes. Try that even without Covid and watch the bodies stack up. I can go on, but it’s not worth it. Just keep believing everything the national news media is selling...

[stanley]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Like the NY governor claiming he was out of ventilators and doctors would have to choose which patients would be allowed access to ventilators to survive. As it turns out they didn’t even use their own stockpile. Or the overrun hospitals, where the Javits Center was turned into a temporary hospital, that saw almost no patients. Or the need for the military hospital ship, that sailed away virtually unused. The bodies that had to be stored in refrigerated trucks was because the governor shut down funeral homes. Try that even without Covid and watch the bodies stack up. I can go on, but it’s not worth it. Just keep believing everything the national news media is selling...

Yeah there's that but..........


.

..

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by stanley

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see."

You trust what you see and hear where the MSM is concerned, fine. Not many of "us" do
They got you.

Do you mean to tell me that those refrigerated trucks that were lined up actually had frozen beef inside? Is that what you believe? Those exhausted health care workers were actors? Is that what you believe? Those makeshift hospital units in parking garages were really camp grounds for kids? Is that what you believe?

[stanley]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Do you mean to tell me that those refrigerated trucks that were lined up actually had frozen beef inside? Is that what you believe? Those exhausted health care workers were actors? Is that what you believe? Those makeshift hospital units in parking garages were really camp grounds for kids? Is that what you believe?

No , not frozen beef.....just cold air. Believe what you want.