[Windguy]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Do you demand to see their "papers"?

My guess is that you said that in jest. If not, I think there’s a huge difference between trusting your close friends to be honest and trusting complete strangers the way cruise lines would have to.

[LateBoomer]

We are veteran cruisers, but even before COVID, cruising is not what it used to be. The things that made it special, the benefits to frequent cruisers, have been slowly chipped away at by all the lines, unless you are spending huge bucks for suites etc. Now with distancing stuff? No thanks. I don't know if we're going back anyway. What made it special and a bit elegant has now changed to floating essentially with Walmart types, and with worse food. It's Southwest Airlines passengers in swimming suits (even in the dining rooms). No thanks. our vacay money is going elsewhere. All inclusives frankly can be a better value. We went to one last fall in Mexico and it was better than a cruise

[coconutmama]

Originally Posted by Windguy

My guess is that you said that in jest. If not, I think there’s a huge difference between trusting your close friends to be honest and trusting complete strangers the way cruise lines would have to.

Totally agree. You are supposed to have a drivers license to drive. No difference to us to have a vaccine card to travel.

[Blackbird45]

Put aside liberty and health.
It's good business sense for cruise ships and all companies to put in vaccine mandates.
If I have a choice to invest in either a company that has a vaccine mandate or not, I'd side with the vaccine.
If business has to close down because they didn't put this safety measure in place, good-by money.

[hrenner]

Originally Posted by fishon

I wonder how many groups we will be able to discriminate against in the future with this court decision?

Keeping people safe is discriminating? Wow

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Kelevision

Good, they shouldn’t! Thanks to all those anti-vaxxers, we can no longer trust the vaccine. As stated by all medical experts.

Which medical experts are claiming the vaccines are not to be trusted? From what I am hearing, reading and seeing on my MSM television news programs is the mRNA vaccines are still holding up very well against the Delta variant.

99.99% of fully vaccinated people are not hospitalized and are not dying. That is still extremely good protection if you ask me. Now, vaccinated people are getting infected but are experiencing either no symptoms or mild to moderate symptoms. I can live with that if I contract the virus. No worries.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Fore!

I wonder about the people who already have immunity. Why isolate them? What about all the break through cases of COVID in people who are already vaccinated? When one of those people come down with COVID on the ship, then what? They may have infected all those they were around ….is everyone then going to be isolated? Just because someone is vaccinated does not mean they can’t pass the virus to others. So many scenarios that you should consider besides your great idea to isolate those that have not been vaccinated. And before you all goes nuts..I am not an anti vaxxer

It's a simple numbers game, the way I see it. Vaccinated people have breakthrough infections MUCH LESS than un-vaccinated people are contracting the virus. So, it stands to reason that there is much more of a chance of un-vaccinated people to be contagious and transmit the virus to others on a cruise ship. Vaccinated people, the data has shown, do not remain contagious nearly as long as un-vaxxed people so that can be considered into the scenario of a cruise ship.

It most certainly is a safer bet for the cruise lines to fill their ships with vaccinated people. Seems most cruisers prefer this too. I am an avid reader of Cruise Critic Forum and vaccinated cruises, without a doubt, is the way other avid cruisers want to vacation.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Fore!

Right, and I believe the CDC? Lol

I believe the CDC completely. I'm really not into conspiracy theories. But.....that's just me.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW

Errr...The Delta variant was first spotted in India and was not caused by creepy anti vaxxer Fox news watchers who drive pick up trucks.

Yes, the Delta variant was first discovered in India and that is a true statement. But........the Delta variant is being driven here in the US by anti-vaxxers in much greater numbers than vaccinated people who have a very low rate of breakthrough infections. There is no getting around that fact.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by LateBoomer

We are veteran cruisers, but even before COVID, cruising is not what it used to be. The things that made it special, the benefits to frequent cruisers, have been slowly chipped away at by all the lines, unless you are spending huge bucks for suites etc. Now with distancing stuff? No thanks. I don't know if we're going back anyway. What made it special and a bit elegant has now changed to floating essentially with Walmart types, and with worse food. It's Southwest Airlines passengers in swimming suits (even in the dining rooms). No thanks. our vacay money is going elsewhere. All inclusives frankly can be a better value. We went to one last fall in Mexico and it was better than a cruise

For hubby and me, there is nothing that compares to being on the water in a floating resort hotel with a water park (LOVE that stuff)......nothing! We learned quite some time ago to stay away from the main dining rooms. We dine only in the specialty restaurants and that elevates our experience to another level. We still do the buffet at breakfast but sometimes also do specialty restaurants at lunch if we don't go to the buffet then.

We have seen the decline you speak about as we have been cruising since 2001. We've done plenty of land vacations including all over Europe, Australia and Hawaii but we still prefer to be on a cruise ship at this time of our lives. Pack and unpack once. Can't wait to sail again.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Well there's a leap.

That was what the Jews said when all the persecution started. Read some of the past posts about Covid, masking, social distancing that have been made on this forum. There are a number of people that would have no problem with anti-vaccers and mask violators being arrested and "re-educated".

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

For hubby and me, there is nothing that compares to being on the water in a floating resort hotel with a water park (LOVE that stuff)......nothing! We learned quite some time ago to stay away from the main dining rooms. We dine only in the specialty restaurants and that elevates our experience to another level. We still do the buffet at breakfast but sometimes also do specialty restaurants at lunch if we don't go to the buffet then.

We have seen the decline you speak about as we have been cruising since 2001. We've done plenty of land vacations including all over Europe, Australia and Hawaii but we still prefer to be on a cruise ship at this time of our lives. Pack and unpack once. Can't wait to sail again.

Thinking that you are truly safe with the vaccine and it solves all problems in terms of eliminating COVID from our lives is Fool's Gold. However, I'm pragmatic and tend to err on the side of caution so I am fully vaccinated but at the same time completely understand those who distrust/fear the vaccine. Court rulings and other mandates marginalize people like this and make them feel "lesser than". I can bring up of a couple examples but they would be off-topic and kind of hot button and I don't want to go there.

I'd also like to remind everyone that cruise ships and their passengers is how we got here in the first place. It was on the cruise ships that the first known cases of Americans affected with COVID-19 and it couldn't be contained.

I think cruising is a highly dangerous activity amid a global pandemic, especially with the likelihood of more variants, some which may not be controlled or affected by the vaccines.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

That was what the Jews said when all the persecution started. Read some of the past posts about Covid, masking, social distancing that have been made on this forum. There are a number of people that would have no problem with anti-vaccers and mask violators being arrested and "re-educated".

Those are in the minority, you will always find radicals on both sides of all issues. You will still find the conspiracy theorists all around us. The anti vaxxers are in the minority, and that minority shrinks every day. I'm ok with them choosing their direction but please don't ask me to take responsibility to keep them safe. The cruise lines should be able to make their own rules and hopefully the courts will up hold that....and we can all feel more secure....ships are a petri dish as it is.

[Chi-Town]

Here is what United Airlines has to say about their decision to require its employees to be vaccinated:

"Vaccines are — by far — the most effective way to protect people from the virus and its variants. An unvaccinated person is about 50 times more likely to be hospitalized for COVID-19 than a vaccinated person, and nearly 300 times more likely to die if infected"

How long before the cruise industry model is adopted for air travelers?

[flsteve]

Originally Posted by Dgodin

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.

That has no connection to COVID-19 emergency use products. Please reference 21 U.S. Code 360bbb-3(e)(1)(A)(ii) "Appropriate conditions designed to ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed-" (III) "of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product,..." (bold added)



You can't force vaccination by law on medical products for use in emergencies.