[lkagele]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

Whatever happens will hurt some people but help others. There is a 3.3 trillion dollar deficit and the money has to come from someplace so one way or another we are all going to pay.

I don't believe that 'the money has to come from someplace' is accurate. Our problem isn't generating enough income. The problem is that our government spends too much.

Our ruling class has absolutely NO intention of paying down the national debt. It's our great, great grandchildren that aren't even born yet that will pay the price for this country's reckless fiscal policies.

What I find ironic is that our push for 'green energy' is probably worse on our environment and our nation that fossil fuel production. An abundance of rare earth metals are needed for solar and wind energy production. Open pit mining is needed which ravages the land and, yes, takes huge amount of fossil fuels to perform. Most rare earth minerals needed come from China making us further dependent on that country.

[rjneumann47]

Originally Posted by stanley

It will definitely go up, but don't worry......the national minimum wage that's going to go up will offset the cost.....

Do you really think for one second that employers of minimum wage employees are not already raising prices to off set increase?

[allenpegg1@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by Scott O

We don’t need the other countries right now, we as a country had become self sufficient....but not anymore, so I cannot see any benefits coming from the future....

Not so. USA is a major player in setting gas prices since we're self sufficient - when fracking goes, we'll again become dependent on others...

[biker1]

I believe the price of gas will double within 3 years. The real key is to watch how much US production declines. Demand will increase as the world’s population is vaccinated. If OPEC is smart they won’t increase production and will profit from the increase in demand. The new administration will be fine with this as it will fit their narrative. People of means will buy electric cars with a substantial tax credit. The less fortunate will have an ever increasing percentage of their income go to energy.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Anybody willing to guess how high gas prices will be in year and 4 years. IMO $3.50 and above $5.00. So will say that good thing, and some will say its economy killer. It will affect everything, most all food prices. There will Alway be demand for crude oil and coal.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by lkagele

I don't believe that 'the money has to come from someplace' is accurate. Our problem isn't generating enough income. The problem is that our government spends too much.

Our ruling class has absolutely NO intention of paying down the national debt. It's our great, great grandchildren that aren't even born yet that will pay the price for this country's reckless fiscal policies.

What I find ironic is that our push for 'green energy' is probably worse on our environment and our nation that fossil fuel production. An abundance of rare earth metals are needed for solar and wind energy production. Open pit mining is needed which ravages the land and, yes, takes huge amount of fossil fuels to perform. Most rare earth minerals needed come from China making us further dependent on that country.

I totally agree with you but the 3.3 trillion is already spent and the money to pay that off still needs to come from someplace.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by jbrown132

As prices go up it effects of the cost of almost everything. That coupled with the new $15.00 minimum wage, which will also cause prices to rise and higher unemployment as businesses will pass along these costs to consumers I do not see the economy staying strong very long term. Add on the trillions we are adding to the national debt at some point the bubble is going to burst and it will be time to pay the piper. God help our children and grandchildren when this happens, as we will have left them one heck of a mess.

I do not have the answers but, one of the cries during the American Revolution was no taxation without representation. With the national debt, we are taxing people not old enough to vote and people not even born yet.

We, all of us are hooked on spending money we don't have-the national debt. I have a pile of German Reichmarks that belonged to my grandparents. A lesson either not learned or perhaps forgotten. Even the german government will not honor them in anyway. They are interesting. A nice printing job. I'm not selling mine but you can buy tons of them on ebay.
Perhaps we should all frame one and hang it on your wall as a reminder.

As today, it was not just Germany. I also have an Italian printed bill that says due to current financial issues this bill is poorly printed. When, things are straightened out we will exchange it. Hum, I do not know if Italy will honor that promise either.

It cannot happen here? People in Germany and Italy thought the same. What to do?
BEATS ME.

[Mardarlowe]

I will have the number one combo with coke to drink. That will be $21.50. Please pull around.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by biker1

People of means will buy electric cars with a substantial tax credit. The less fortunate will have an ever increasing percentage of their income go to energy.

What is going to happen when electricity is our only source of power and it goes down? Also batteries are toxic waste, what are we going to do about that and lithium batteries are known fire hazards. We just had a fire in our neighborhood from a lithium battery that was charging in the garage. There are pros and cons to everything.

[biker1]

I am not arguing the pros and cons of batteries. I am only suggesting what may happen. Feel free to start a new thread. By the way, nearly every portable device, including 100% of cellphones, has a lithium-ion battery and very few are bursting into flames.

Originally Posted by oldtimes

What is going to happen when electricity is our only source of power and it goes down? Also batteries are toxic waste, what are we going to do about that and lithium batteries are known fire hazards. We just had a fire in our neighborhood from a lithium battery that was charging in the garage. There are pros and cons to everything.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by biker1

I am not arguing the pros and cons of batteries. I am only suggesting what may happen. Feel free to start a new thread.

You're right I should not have used you as an example. The point I was trying to make was that everyone is so concerned about the cost of gas but no one is considering the cost of alternate energy sources. One way or another it is going to cost us all.

[JP]

SUV's, that typically have poor millage, will be for sale like crazy because people won't want to pay the increased gas prices.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by ithos

In the last few years not only did the US become energy independent on oil but also was the marginal producer in the world. Based on the proclamations of the incoming administration, existing fracking operations and drilling permits will come under increased regulatory pressure to be downscaled or eliminated. The purpose is to reduce the carbon emissions.

The impact on the economy will be two fold. First the prices of all energy sources will go up which will restrain the growth of the economy and put a disproportionate burden on the poor and lower middle class.

The second and possibly the biggest hurdle to returning to the pre pandemic record low unemployment levels is that the US will lose its primary competitive advantage for manufacturing. This will be a major drag for jobs particularly in the Midwest which had seen a revival of sorts due to not only cheaper energy costs but the USMCA agreement, deregulations and protective tariffs.

I agree with the above, but would add that it will also put a disproportionate burden on people who choose to live in rural areas. One of the primary ways they try to reduce carbon is to tax the hell out of energy and use the proceeds on public transit. People living in rural areas depend greatly on their automobiles as a way of life and Public transit simply is not an option. Furthermore, many rural folks need to drive gas guzzling four wheel drive vehicles to safely navigate the associated terrain. Hugh carbon taxes on energy is a form of forced urbanization.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by trshannon@aol.com

if you think business are going to just start paying 15.00 minimum you have another thing coming. This will unemploy millions of workers and or put businesses out of business.

It will also be a tipping point where many repetitive tasks will be turned over to robots. Robots will be flipping your burgers. They never show up late, call in sick, talk back to the boss, require benefits, and don’t take bathroom breaks or have to wear a mask.

[biker1]

You are correct, alternate energy sources cost more than fossil fuels. The less fortunate, however, will wind up spending a greater percentage of their income on energy.

Originally Posted by oldtimes

You're right I should not have used you as an example. The point I was trying to make was that everyone is so concerned about the cost of gas but no one is considering the cost of alternate energy sources. One way or another it is going to cost us all.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by DAVES

I am thankful that I do not make the decisions. Most people, whoever they are, owe more than they have saved. So inflation is their friend. Most people-the biggest debtor is all of us-the national debt. The national debt last time I looked 28 Trillion dollars.
We talk about that number over and over again. How many besides me realize, face reality that we do no comprehend what one Trillion is let alone 28 of them.

The ten year treasury is now paying about 1% with 2% inflation, the fed target they are
as we blink stealing half of what you are being paid.

We are so distracted fighting each other that we are blind to reality.

Very good post, until the last few years the Federal Reserve had a longstanding monetary policy that they attempted to set interest rates so that savers earned a real rate of return above the rate of inflation. Our nation was not addicted to debt anywhere near how it currently is. That has all changed, individuals, corporations, and our nation are all up to their eyeballs in debt, savings are at all time lows, and interest rates are near zero. We are in an unsustainable bubble that keeps growing, and the longer we let it grow, without making some hard choices, the worse it will be when it bursts. Our children and grandchildren are not going to have it nearly as good as we enjoyed. Our national debt is currently at about 100% of GDP and growing exponentially as we enter indebtedness levels of countries like Greece and Italy, not good : (