[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The way to determine who should/shouldn't have them can BEGIN with a universal background check and testing to ensure that the gun buyer is qualified to have it. Mandatory safety and use courses at a certified shooting range.

You described what is already in place. I had to go through all that to get my license to carry and legally purchase my firearms. In addition, I have to renew my license every five years and go through the certification process all over again each time. The problem typically isn’t people who follow the law, it’s the others.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by RVJim

Given your profile picture we know where your bias is at. No thanks not interested in engaging with an obviously biased original poster with some sort of agenda.

Given you’re past post I’d say you are bias. Nothing going change any bodies mind when already made up.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

What is an assault weapon?

Winchester level action 44-40 made around 1875.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

You described what is already in place. I had to go through all that to get my license to carry and legally purchase my firearms. In addition, I have to renew my license every five years and go through the certification process all over again each time. The problem typically isn’t people who follow the law, it’s the others.

This isn't a national thing. Each state has its own rules and regulations regarding firearms. What you had to do, no one has to do in many other states. There are states that don't require licensing at all, and states that don't require any certification at all. There is no consistency from one state to the next. It's one of the top reasons (not the only top reason - just one of them) why Chicago is always such a mess. Yes they have strict gun laws. But those laws don't mean a damned thing when the states right next to the city's borders, Indiana and Wisconsin, don't have strict gun laws. It's a half hour over the border, buy a gun -legally- there, drive back to the neighborhood and pop a cap in your enemy's head. Easy peasy, and cheaper than buying black market goods in town.


There exists no universal background check nationwide. That is what millions of Americans are fighting to get. We don't want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens. We just want some nationwide measure of accountability, to minimize the number of people who "shouldn't" have guns, having them anyway.

[Woodbear]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Australia and other counties NOT led around by the nose by the NRA solved that very problem by making certain classes of firearms illegal. If DOMESTIC terrorism continues to increase as it has in the last 2 years the American people's need for less bloodshed will override the greed of the NRA.

I am glad I live in the United States and not Australia. I am also happy to be a Lifetime Member of the NRA. You will never find a better group of people than NRA members. You will also find great men and women at the various Villages shooting clubs.

[Woodbear]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The rifle is by far the superior tool as compared to a pistol for a demented mass murderer that has a well-planned strategy for his killing spree. The key superiority of a RIFLE is the distance. A minimally trained killer could easily shoot into a crowd like at a July 4th parade from a DISTANCE of 50 to 200 yards away. I don't know the exact distance that the Las Vegas shooter was killing people at, but I would guess an average of 75 yards. An AR-15 RIFLE and the rifle cartridge that it fires are designed to hit a target at 100 to 200 yards with much more accuracy and terminal velocity than a PISTOL. The cartridge design for a RIFLE is bigger than a PISTOL cartridge - thus allowing MORE powder and therefore more VELOCITY at the muzzle and downrange. The very aerodynamic bullet design of most rifles allows the bullet to travel through 200 or more yards of air resistance with a flatter trajectory and less energy loss than a typical PISTOL bullet design

A pistol in contrast is designed for hitting targets under 50 yards by a shooter with limited training. The sight radius between the front sight of a PISTOL is much shorter than that of a RIFLE - Thus making the pistol inherently less accurate than a rifle. The pistol cartridge normally has less powder than a rifle cartridge. So, the muzzle velocity is less for the pistol. The pistol bullet is normally shorter, blunter, and less aerodynamically configured than a rifle bullet. This gives a PISTOL bullet a less flat trajectory and less velocity and energy at 100 yards than a RIFLE bullet

Overall a pistol is a short-range firearm compared to a rifle. That is why military snipers, obviously, use rifles and NOT pistols.

You will NEVER find a sniper using a semi-auto rifle. Maybe some could read up on barrel length and twist rate to understand the effects the barrel has on a projectile. Most of the comments are laughable

[Woodbear]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

This isn't a national thing. Each state has its own rules and regulations regarding firearms. What you had to do, no one has to do in many other states. There are states that don't require licensing at all, and states that don't require any certification at all. There is no consistency from one state to the next. It's one of the top reasons (not the only top reason - just one of them) why Chicago is always such a mess. Yes they have strict gun laws. But those laws don't mean a damned thing when the states right next to the city's borders, Indiana and Wisconsin, don't have strict gun laws. It's a half hour over the border, buy a gun -legally- there, drive back to the neighborhood and pop a cap in your enemy's head. Easy peasy, and cheaper than buying black market goods in town.

There exists no universal background check nationwide. That is what millions of Americans are fighting to get. We don't want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens. We just want some nationwide measure of accountability, to minimize the number of people who "shouldn't" have guns, having them anyway.

You could not be more wrong. It is 100% illegal to private sale a firearm and return to your state without doing a background check.

However, under the NFA and Federal Regulations, You are allowed to purchase a shotgun or long rifle as long as the sale will reflect on the policy of the state you reside in. For example: If you live in Florida and go to Washington to purchase a gun. The shop would have to hold the gun for 3 days. However, if you live in New York and went to another state to purchase an AR-15 you would get turned down because it is illegal in the state of New York.

So let’s clear some things up. An FFL or federal firearms license holder are the only individuals who can legally accept and sale across the states.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

That VERY chart confirms what I have been saying. The gun death rate in the US is about 3 times what Australia's is. And Australia's rate DROPPED SIGNIFICANTLY after they did their buybacks of semi-auto rifles and allowed bolt actions. That's the way I read that chart !

It's difficult to help someone understand facts when you even draw a picture and they still don't get it. I made a point that there was already a downward trend in Australia(that seems to be the superior country of choice) before the gun ban. We also have had a downward trend which seems to match that of Australia. No one said that murder does not exist. The point is that attributing a trend to a particular act when the trend was already in motion is not even scientific.
There are two different purposes being displayed here:
1. Ban guns using a very minute percentage of criminal acts as the reasoning.
2. Protect the children.
In this case, children being murdered is a tool or reason for radicals to ban guns. The purpose of the discussion is supposed to be suggestions on how to protect the children. Sorry, but that is like saying, "I want to get rid of liquor so I am going to blame all accidents on DUI's." Get rid of the liquor and you still have vehicle accidents.
Do not presume to compare Australia with the U.S. when it comes to murders. That is a totally different country, with a different culture(s) and different government and different laws. The demographics are different and the population density is different.
If you don't like guns and need a reason to ban them from EVERYONE because of your fear, then please be honest about it. The only thing that will change in mass murders if you get rid of semi-automatic firearms is that anyone intent on killing will use a different tool.
What is more effective, hardening physical security at the schools or banning one instrument of mass murder?

[biker1]

Not exactly. The M107 and M82 are examples of semi-automatic sniper rifles.

Originally Posted by Woodbear

You will NEVER find a sniper using a semi-auto rifle. Maybe some could read up on barrel length and twist rate to understand the effects the barrel has on a projectile. Most of the comments are laughable

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

This isn't a national thing. Each state has its own rules and regulations regarding firearms. What you had to do, no one has to do in many other states. There are states that don't require licensing at all, and states that don't require any certification at all. There is no consistency from one state to the next. It's one of the top reasons (not the only top reason - just one of them) why Chicago is always such a mess. Yes they have strict gun laws. But those laws don't mean a damned thing when the states right next to the city's borders, Indiana and Wisconsin, don't have strict gun laws. It's a half hour over the border, buy a gun -legally- there, drive back to the neighborhood and pop a cap in your enemy's head. Easy peasy, and cheaper than buying black market goods in town.


There exists no universal background check nationwide. That is what millions of Americans are fighting to get. We don't want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens. We just want some nationwide measure of accountability, to minimize the number of people who "shouldn't" have guns, having them anyway.

Wrong! There IS a background check on any firearm sold by a legal firearms dealer. And anyone that thinks you can stop a crazy from owning a firearm is sadly mistaken. Crazy is not determined by law enforcement. To do a proper background check it costs thousands of dollars, so that is not even practical. All they can do is a record check. Although, many states interview neighbors and associates when they do a check for CCW.

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

This isn't a national thing. Each state has its own rules and regulations regarding firearms. What you had to do, no one has to do in many other states. There are states that don't require licensing at all, and states that don't require any certification at all. There is no consistency from one state to the next. It's one of the top reasons (not the only top reason - just one of them) why Chicago is always such a mess. Yes they have strict gun laws. But those laws don't mean a damned thing when the states right next to the city's borders, Indiana and Wisconsin, don't have strict gun laws. It's a half hour over the border, buy a gun -legally- there, drive back to the neighborhood and pop a cap in your enemy's head. Easy peasy, and cheaper than buying black market goods in town.


There exists no universal background check nationwide. That is what millions of Americans are fighting to get. We don't want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens. We just want some nationwide measure of accountability, to minimize the number of people who "shouldn't" have guns, having them anyway.

I would think any criminal can buy a gun "on the street" in any state. They don't have to cross a border to do so.

https://www.uslawshield.com/firearm-...73-mean-to-me/


Every gun dealer in the United States has to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL). Every gun sold, new or used, at an FFL, must have an ATF Form 4473 completed and submitted to the FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). Therefore, everyone who buys a gun from a gun store or gun dealer has gone through a background check. That holds true whether you are at their store or at their booth at a gun show.

Private gun sales is a different issue. Some states, such as California, require private part transfers to go through an FFL and the same Form 4473 is submitted and a background check is performed. Some states do not require a private individual to do anything at all. Florida law states that you must be a resident of Florida with a state issued ID to buy a new or used gun. Therefore, if you have a Florida drivers license I can sell you my used firearm.

Form 4473

It is a federal crime to lie on Form 4473. The odds of being prosecuted for lying on Form 4473 is extremely low. In 2019, Hunter Biden lied on Form 4473 and was not prosecuted. That is not surprising. In 2019, NICS denied 112,000 prohibited people to by a gun, Federal Prosecutors received 478 referrals for prosecution and only prosecuted 298 cases. That is a prosecution rate of 1 in 375 prohibited people.

Perhaps we should enforce the laws we already have on the books to keep guns out of the hands of prohibited people before we push for new laws. Perhaps we should study the impact of the laws that already exist. Perhaps we evaluate the penalties of crimes committed with firearms and make it severe. That has worked in the past. Perhaps if someone murders another with a firearm instead of spending over $1 Million to execute that person, they face a firing squad. That has worked in the past and we save tax payers $1 Million per murderer.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

In other words you just make stuff up. At least you admit it. But don’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

I wouldn't expect that, even my wife does NOT take me seriously.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

Honestly Jim, so far most of what I'm reading seems to be fantasy and conjecture based on no facts. Have you read the statistics and citations previously provided?

Let me recap and please correct me where I'm not correct.

We should ban all semi-automatic weapons. Why?
Because they hold large capacity magazines and shoot too fast. Why?
The NRA and greedy manufactures have caused young men fantasize and buy AR style rifles to commit mass murder. What proof do you have of that?
None.

Most mass murders are committed with a semi-automatic rifle. That's not true, most mass murders are committed with a pistol.
Most mass murderers really want to commit mass murders with semi-automatic AR styled rifles. What proof do you have of that?
None

We could stop mass murders if no more rifles were sold. There are already 6-20 million AR style rifles in circulation in America. How would banning new sales affect mass murders? I don't know..

But I know a lot of lives would be saved. How many lives would be saved if we ban sales of AR style rifles? I don't know. Lots

Mass murders cost society millions. Exactly how much? I don't know.

How does violating the rights of millions of law abiding citizens end mass murders and punish evil people? It wouldn't be a violation if the majority of people think we should ban all new sales of semi-automatic rifles. So, you would advocate for mob rule over Constitutional Rights? I don't know.

It's going to get a lot worse. What proof do you have of that? None.

****

Facts:
1. Gun rights people, gun control people, and the government all agree that mass murders are rarely committed with rifles of any kind and extremely rare with an AR style rifle.

2. Pistols are used in the majority of mass murders.

3. The majority of mass murders happen in the home, not public places and even more rare in schools.

4. Below is ten years of child homicide data. It is clear where children are dying.

2011, no mass shootings at schools
2012, 27 children killed is school mass shootings(including a univesity)
2013, no mass shootings at schools
2014, 5 children killed is school mass shootings
2015, 1,660 children died from domestic violence., 8 students from mass shooting at school
2016, 1730 children died from domestic violence, no mass shootings at schools
2017, 1710 children died from domestic violence, no mass shootings at schools
2018, 1780 children died from domestic violence, 22 students were killed
2019, 1840 children died from domestic violence, no mass shootings at schools
2020, 1,708 children died from domestic violence. no mass shootings at schools
2021, 4 students killed in mass shootings.
2022, 19 students killed in mass shootings.

We know who is being killed and we know who is doing the killing. Yet, the only focus is on the rarest of events with the rarest utilization of a particular firearm. Why is that?

Should mob rule override minority rights?

I will answer......the part about young MEN fantasizing about AR-15-style rifles. There are statistics that say that only about 5 % of mass murders are women. Now, as to whether they are young men or old men? Lately, they have been mostly YOUNG men. And we all know that the testosterone levels of YOUNG men on average are greater than OLD MEN. So, I am going for a wild-butt and educational guess that statistically there are more young men. For example, the original DOMESTIC TERRORIST was the Oklahoma City bomber and he was basically a YOUNG DUDE. And AGAIN I would rather state an intelligent, intuitive OPINION than become a professional writer with a PAID staff.

Next....about pistols vs rifles......I have PREVIOUSLY beaten that subject into the turf. I have proven my point beyond a shadow of a doubt.......so I REST on that case......your Honor.

Now, about how many lives would be saved, and what do mass murders cost society? Let me be really, really real, NO ONE that is human can answer those questions. In a few years, when I go to meet God, I will try and remember to ask him.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Woodbear

I am glad I live in the United States and not Australia. I am also happy to be a Lifetime Member of the NRA. You will never find a better group of people than NRA members. You will also find great men and women at the various Villages shooting clubs.

I was an NRA member up until about 1970 when their articles and emphasis shifted from hunting and sporting to most articles about military firearms.

[Hiltongrizz11]

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

Reinstate the assault weapons ban it was a reasonable law until Bush allowed it to sunset now it’s out of control!

If you followed up and understood you'd find out that shooting is actually went up during the assault weapons ban!

Shootings have actually gone down over the last 20 years and the amount that I've taken place with rifles is even smaller