[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Martian

When someone says "won't be stopped by clothes masks" they imply cloth masks are useless and that is not the case. The masks reduce the chances. If both are wearing cloth masks then it is double the reduction. It is not an all or nothing situation. Helping is better than not helping.

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

[DON10E]

[QUOTE=jmpalladino;1806304]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

There is evidence that most people will NOT take the vaccine. Look it up - I can't post links. Only about 30%-40% get the flu vaccine and a similar reception is expected for any other vaccine whether for Covid-19 or something else. I happen to be in that group. I will refuse a vaccine. My reasons are mine alone and no one has a right to judge me in this matter. If our nation won't stop abortions (my body, my choice the radical left feminists say), then I assert the same right ... my body, my choice.

No, vaccines will not solve this.

Yes it is one's choice to elect to take the vaccine if developed. Those that do will likely live , those who do not may die, yes it is our choice. I will elect to live thank you. God bless the World!

Sorry, the government will force people to take the vaccine, like it or not. They Will hold you down and give you the shot. This is clear from constitutional lawyers.

They say you can pass on a vaccine that will protect you (like the flu), but if a vaccine will protect others (Like the highly contagious Corona virus) you have no choice.

That’s what they say. Please don’t argue without posting your sources or personal constitutional credentials.

[DON10E]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

Farts seem to pass through several layers of cloth. Why wouldn’t the virus?

😛

[Kahuna32162]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Well lots of people on fb are starting threads saying it is a hoax

How many people you know, or, God forbid, members of your family have to get sick or DIE before you realize this is real?

[chet2020]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

How can a guy review the literature as much as you do conclude that cloth masks have no value in a public setting? Here is yet another study concluding that masks are not just slightly helpful, but significantly helpful in reducing virus spread.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10...aff.2020.00818

[Martian]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

Sorry, this is NOT true, the cloth will stop a percentage of the small particles.

From CDC Site:

"Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of cloth face coverings is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain."

And a few references to support that recommendation:

Rothe C, Schunk M, Sothmann P, et al. Transmission of 2019-nCoV Infection from an Asymptomatic Contact in Germany. The New England journal of medicine. 2020;382(10):970-971. PMID: 32003551external icon

Zou L, Ruan F, Huang M, et al. SARS-CoV-2 Viral Load in Upper Respiratory Specimens of Infected Patients. The New England journal of medicine. 2020;382(12):1177-1179. PMID: 32074444external icon

Pan X, Chen D, Xia Y, et al. Asymptomatic cases in a family cluster with SARS-CoV-2 infection. The Lancet Infectious diseases. 2020. PMID: 32087116external icon
Bai Y, Yao L, Wei T, et al. Presumed Asymptomatic Carrier Transmission of COVID-19. Jama. 2020. PMID: 32083643external icon

Kimball A HK, Arons M, et al. Asymptomatic and Presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infections in Residents of a Long-Term Care Skilled Nursing Facility — King County, Washington, March 2020. MMWR Morbidity and mortality weekly report. 2020; ePub: 27 March 2020. PMID: 32240128external icon

Wei WE LZ, Chiew CJ, Yong SE, Toh MP, Lee VJ. Presymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 — Singapore, January 23–March 16, 2020. MMWR Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. 2020;ePub: 1 April 2020. PMID: 32271722external icon

Li R, Pei S, Chen B, et al. Substantial undocumented infection facilitates the rapid dissemination of novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV2). Science (New York, NY). 2020. PMID: 32179701external icon

Furukawa NW, Brooks JT, Sobel J. Evidence Supporting Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 While Presymptomatic or Asymptomatic [published online ahead of print, 2020 May 4]. Emerg Infect Dis. 2020;26(7):10.3201/eid2607.201595. Link

Oran DP, Topol Prevalence of Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infection: A Narrative Review [published online ahead of print, 2020 Jun 3]. Ann Intern Med. 2020;M20-3012. PMID: 32491919external icon

National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2020. Rapid Expert Consultation on the Possibility of Bioaerosol Spread of SARS-CoV-2 for the COVID-19 Pandemic (April 1, 2020). Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Error: DOI Not Found icon.

Schwartz KL, Murti M, Finkelstein M, et al. Lack of COVID-19 transmission on an international flight. CMAJ. 2020;192(15):E410. PMID: 32392504external icon

Anfinrud P, Stadnytskyi V, Bax CE, Bax A. Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering. N Engl J Med. 2020 Apr 15. doi:10.1056/NEJMc2007800. PMID: 32294341external icon

Davies A, Thompson KA, Giri K, Kafatos G, Walker J, Bennett A. Testing the efficacy of homemade masks: would they protect in an influenza pandemic? Disaster Med Public Health Prep. 2013;7(4):413-8. PMID: 24229526external icon

Konda A, Prakash A, Moss GA, Schmoldt M, Grant GD, Guha S. Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks. ACS Nano. 2020 Apr 24. PMID: 32329337external icon

Aydin O, Emon B, Saif MTA. Performance of fabrics for home-made masks against spread of respiratory infection through droplets: a quantitative mechanistic study. medRxiv
preprint doi: Performance of Fabrics for Home-Made Masks Against the Spread of Respiratory Infections Through Droplets: A Quantitative Mechanistic Study | medRxiv, posted April 24, 2020.
Ma QX, Shan H, Zhang HL, Li GM, Yang RM, Chen JM. Potential utilities of mask-wearing and instant hand hygiene for fighting SARS-CoV-2. J Med Virol. 2020. PMID: 32232986external icon

Leung, N.H.L., Chu, D.K.W., Shiu, E.Y.C. et al.Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks. Nat Med. 2020. PMID: 32371934external icon

Johnson DF, Druce JD, Birch C, Grayson ML. A quantitative assessment of the efficacy of surgical and N95 masks to filter influenza virus in patients with acute influenza infection. Clin Infect Dis. 2009 Jul 15;49(2):275-7. PMID: 19522650external icon

Green CF, Davidson CS, Panlilio AL, et al. Effectiveness of selected surgical masks in arresting vegetative cells and endospores when worn by simulated contagious patients. Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2012;33(5):487‐494. PMID: 22476275external icon

Believe what you want. No longer matters to me.

[graciegirl]

Here is an article just out that says that Covid-19 kills under 2% of those it infects. It says it is not as deadly as Ebola but far more contagious. It says it kills more than the seasonal flu...and kills more elderly people.

Here;

How Deadly Is Covid-19? Researchers Are Getting Closer to an Answer

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by chet2020

How can a guy review the literature as much as you do conclude that cloth masks have no value in a public setting? Here is yet another study concluding that masks are not just slightly helpful, but significantly helpful in reducing virus spread.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10...aff.2020.00818

That's a modeling study based on lots of assumptions and I don't think the writers have medical expertise. Even so, they claim that mask wearing reduced infections by 0,9% to 2%. Hardly what you would call very effective.

Here is a study done by two Doctors who are experts in respiratory protection who reviewed all the scientific studies.

We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing. At the time we wrote this article, we were unable to locate any well-performed studies of cloth mask leakage when worn on the face—either inward or outward leakage. As far as we know, these data are still lacking.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP

Cloth masks can reduce transmission of larger cough and sneeze droplets, but look like a chain link fence to the smaller aerosol particles that asymptomatics spread by just breathing.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

That's a modeling study based on lots of assumptions and I don't think the writers have medical expertise. Even so, they claim that mask wearing reduced infections by 0,9% to 2%. Hardly what you would call very effective.

Here is a study done by two Doctors who are experts in respiratory protection who reviewed all the scientific studies.

We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing. At the time we wrote this article, we were unable to locate any well-performed studies of cloth mask leakage when worn on the face—either inward or outward leakage. As far as we know, these data are still lacking.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP

Cloth masks can reduce transmission of larger cough and sneeze droplets, but look like a chain link fence to the smaller aerosol particles that asymptomatics spread by just breathing.

Well then, I offer this;

Just wear them to be polite, like underpants.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Well then, I offer this;

Just wear them to be polite, like underpants.

I don't go in any buildings except home, stay 20 feet or more from people when outside. So no need for me to be polite. I have no problem with people who wear masks, just letting them know that they are taking a risk by going inside buildings where there are other people.

I wear underwear most of the time now, when younger I often went commando. Nobody knew unless they had xray vision.

[chet2020]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

That's a modeling study based on lots of assumptions and I don't think the writers have medical expertise. Even so, they claim that mask wearing reduced infections by 0,9% to 2%. Hardly what you would call very effective.

Here is a study done by two Doctors who are experts in respiratory protection who reviewed all the scientific studies.

We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing. At the time we wrote this article, we were unable to locate any well-performed studies of cloth mask leakage when worn on the face—either inward or outward leakage. As far as we know, these data are still lacking.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP

Cloth masks can reduce transmission of larger cough and sneeze droplets, but look like a chain link fence to the smaller aerosol particles that asymptomatics spread by just breathing.

A. You link an article that is labeled "commentary," i.e. an opinion piece.

B. The article you link is dated April 1, 2020. That is ancient history. At that time, it was thought virus transmission was predominantly via surface contact, not airborne. Now we know transmission is predominantly airborne, not surface.

C. Martian linked 17 articles indicating cloth masks are useful. The phrase is "preponderance of the evidence."

[DON10E]

[QUOTE=anothersteve;1806504]

Originally Posted by DON10E

Like you did?

Steve

Starts at 5:32.

Alan Dershowitz discusses legality of mandatory #COVID-19 vaccines - YouTube

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Nope, just stating the facts. Cloth masks will not stop the small particles emitted by asymptomatics. Since there are lots of asymptomatics out there, I advise not going into any buildings other than home, unless you have no other choice as in a medical emergency.

The Cleveland Clinic does not agree with you. This is what The Cleveland Clinic has to say about this.......

Here’s How Wearing a Cloth Mask Helps Fight the Spread of Coronavirus – Health Essentials from Cleveland Clinic

[DON10E]

As of today, 54% of all confirmed cases in Florida come from 5 counties in or around Miami-Dade.

Rather than a travel ban on New Yorkers, wouldn’t a travel ban on those counties make more sense?

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

That's a modeling study based on lots of assumptions and I don't think the writers have medical expertise. Even so, they claim that mask wearing reduced infections by 0,9% to 2%. Hardly what you would call very effective.

Here is a study done by two Doctors who are experts in respiratory protection who reviewed all the scientific studies.

We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing. At the time we wrote this article, we were unable to locate any well-performed studies of cloth mask leakage when worn on the face—either inward or outward leakage. As far as we know, these data are still lacking.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP

Cloth masks can reduce transmission of larger cough and sneeze droplets, but look like a chain link fence to the smaller aerosol particles that asymptomatics spread by just breathing.

This is the reason why social distancing in addition to mask wearing is vitally important to slow the spread.