[ithos]

I have never been a fan of the Star Spangled Banner as it is way too difficult to sing. As a poster mentioned earlier it was designed to be sung by accomplished singers.

The lyrics are not as relatable as those in other patriotic songs such as America the Beautiful. The first verse was inspired by one battle in the War of 1812.

This post said it the best.

"I love our National Anthem, but I don’t consider Key a good poet or lyricist. I don’t mind working to figure out a piece of poetry, but good lyric poetry meant to be sung is usually more straightforward so the singers have a better idea of what they are singing about."

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...3-post106.html

Regarding the kneelers, it is time to give the Cancel Culture extremists a big dose of their own medicine.

No more support at any level of any sport or organized event that repudiates a country that while far from perfect, has by its founding and subsequent history, established an unprecedented quantum advancement of liberty for peoples of all backgrounds the World over.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Choro&Swing

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The first three lines asks what has happened to the British army that boasted the war would take away our home and country. In line four the answer is found: our soil was polluted by their foul footsteps, but that pollution has been washed out by their blood. “Hireling and slave” in line five refers to the British troops: mercenaries (hirelings) and drafted or “impressed” poor men (though they weren’t actually slaves, they were forced to serve against their will after being essentially kidnapped).

Most readers of Key's work don't agree with your assessment of the meaning of the word slave which you suggest is a substitute for impressed poor men. Key had a good command of language and the word means what it means. Knowing history helps. During the war of 1812 the British offered freedom to any escaped slave who would fight with the British side against the Americans. They were not paid a salary which would have made them hirelings. Instead they were in fact escaped slaves, just like Key wrote. And Key makes the point that escaped slaves will not escape the grave. The British did not have a mercenary force in the war of 1812 unless you include the Native American tribes which fought on their side. Key uses hirelings as an insult to the British soldier suggesting he is only doing his job for money not out of British patriotism. Note that Key never mentions the blood of the British soldier separately.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by blueash

Why do POC feel that there is still a major issue with racism in this country? I present for you a facebook posting by an election officer in Mississippi. She likely will tell you she is not a racist and is perfectly capable of conducting an election without racial animus. She has not resigned.

Her explanation for her posting is just as bad.
"We've always in the past had whites really participating in registering to vote. So many people don't seem to be concerned about [voting]. This was an error on my part."

To no one's great surprise, there are still racist views in the US. Who could have guessed?

The question is .... is there "systemic" racism? The answer is no. The focus on the former is almost like some type of white guilt porn.

By the way, which countries are not racist and clearly better on the race issue than the US?? What are some examples ?

China is off the charts racist compared to the US.

Here are only three, of many, examples:

McDonald'''s apologizes after restaurant in China bans black people

Chinese city targets Africans in coronavirus fight - Los Angeles Times

YouTube

[Byte1]

Calling a nice song "The Black National Anthem" is once again disenfranchising the minorities. Instead of saying that "National Anthem" INCLUDES them, someone is saying that they are still not assimilated into our American culture. Whether or not the so called "Black National Anthem" is nice, does not matter. Separate bathrooms for Blacks was also meant to be a nice gesture, and how did that go?
Still wondering what the "Chinese National Anthem" will be. Perhaps: YouTube
Maybe we can get the Tijuana brass to play something for the Mexican national anthem.
I am sure that blacks will not realize that the NFL is being condescending to them. Instead of integration into American society, they are once again segregated by supposedly well meaning white folk.
Pretty song? Sure, but it ain't a black national anthem. THE American Anthem is inclusive of ALL American citizens, not just the white.

[dewilson58]

A prospective.



The Hodgetwins - NFL To Play "BLACK NATIONAL ANTHEM" Before National Anthem | Facebook

[jimh24444@gmail.com]

Let's see their own national anthem. Next their own country or autonomous zone?

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

A prospective.



The Hodgetwins - NFL To Play "BLACK NATIONAL ANTHEM" Before National Anthem | Facebook

And a very good one.

Steve

[Byte1]

Play it during half time if it is that important. If you don't like the National Anthem that we have been standing for and singing for decades, that's your problem. Once again, liberals want to destroy something good about America because "they" don't like it. Tear down and destroy history, so that you can feel like you actually mattered. It seems like that is the only way some bitter folks that made bad decisions in their past think they can make up for it. Destroy America. FORCE something on the Majority to show how powerful you are. Make you feel good?
Don't worry about the NFL games this year and what national anthem will be played, because at the rate the protesters are spreading covid19, there won't be any fans in the stands to sing or stand to any music. And the channel selector can easily be changed to the old Black and White movie channel without standing up. Miserable people can change the written history of our country, words might be eliminated, but you will still be miserable people.

[fdpaq0580]

After eight pages of this, my take away is that the the two major points of contention are, referring to this song/poem as the "black national anthem", and that it is going to be played along with the U. S. National Anthem.
Some see it as pandering to one minority and by doing so make it political and divisive. The statement by Professor Timothy Askew was shown in an earlier post and he thinks it is, and I agree.
The lyrics to the song, imho, are lovely and, this just my opinion, make a great hymn for church. As to what is appropriate at a nationally televised sporting event, I believe that any focusing on one group, racial, political, religion, etc, is not appropriate.
Having an opening prayer, for example, would be problematic since there are many different beliefs. Any faith or lack of could feel excluded and interpret it as blatant prejudice. How divisive!
Sporting events are for entertainment and, imho, not a proper or productive venue to express or engage in politics. Sports are and have been one of the venues that allow people of all backgrounds to come together and cheer together, eat and drink together and share in a common experience. Let's keep it that way for all our sakes, for to do otherwise will have a negative effect. There is enough negativity, and it needs to end.

Stay well. Stay safe. Peace!

[ithos]

Originally Posted by blueash

Again the BLM movement is supported by most Americans including most white Americans. For those who believe that white people agreeing with BLM is a rarity, your information bubble is too small.

So I don't see many people, although there were some, who objected because this honored one of many segments of American society, the objection was because it honored Black Americans. The poem reflects on how far we have come and how much suffering there has been but with perseverance and the help of God the future is bright. Obviously there still is work to be done.

Please take some time and research the background of BLM the organization.

We are anti-capitalist:
We believe and understand that Black people will never achieve liberation under the current global racialized capitalist system.

ABOUT US – M4BL
Movement for Black Lives - Wikipedia


They are a radical leftwing extremist group who don't give a damn about improving the lives of blacks or any other group. They are simply opportunists who believe the ends justify the means. And the ends is an overthrow of our Constitutional Republic.

And if Republicans are so racists why do so many of them support stopping abortion which kills a much higher percentage of black babies.

over 44 million abortions since the 1973 Roe vs Wade Supreme Court ruling, 19 million black babies were aborted. African Americans are just under 13 percent of United States population.

Abortion: The overlooked tragedy for black Americans – Arizona Capitol Times

[Heyitsrick]

A professor of history at Stevenson University has done quite a bit of research into Key's poem, trying to ascertain what Key meant by the controversial third stanza's slave and hireling wording.

What he found was other mentions of these terms back in run up to the War of 1812 - including in a poem written a full year before Key's:

Originally Posted by Professor Glenn Johnston

If you search Newspapers.com for "hireling and slave" your initial results will uncover current articles discussing our problems with Key's words in the National Anthem. However, if you narrow the search to Key's time, 1780-1816, you will see that slave and hireling were each used in a pejorative fashion to describe free people carrying out the wishes of a more powerful person. This is similar to China's Communist newspapers calling our South Vietnamese allies "running dogs" or "puppets" during the Vietnam War.

As proof that all Key did in his third verse was employ a rhetorical device, I submit the following evidence. In 1813, in the midst of the War of 1812, and a full year before Key penned the "Defence of Fort M'Henry," another poet used the words hirelings and slaves in a poem to describe the King's soldiers during the Revolutionary War at the Battle of Bunker Hill. In the poem "The Death of Warren" from the Trenton True American, published on 15 May 1813 in the Lancaster Intelligencer and Journal, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, the poet describes:

",,,,,When tyrant George assailed our shore,

and thousands of his slaves sent o'er,

With power to kill, inflict each ill.

Our towns to burn that we might mourn.

And make us to his sway return.

A sway that was slavish and foreign."

The poet continues in a later verse:

"Now How(e), who had the chief command

of George's troops within our land,

Addresses thus his hireling band:

'To stand us they are not able.

Behold (he cries) the motly host,

And quickly drive them from their post;

And as you live no quarter give,

Mind no prayer, not one spare;

For vengeance we will have that's rare.

And destroy every Yankee Rebel.'

...

Based on the widespread use of hireling and slave as a an epithet in the US press during the lead-up to and waging of the War of 1812, I believe it is entirely credible that Key used hireling and slave in that fashion. His poem was not meant to arouse anything but patriotic fervor through recognition of Baltimore's defense. The narrative of the US David defeating the British military Goliath was central to his theme, not communicating his beliefs about chattel slavery as practiced in the Chesapeake region. With Bible societies on the rise in the US as well as a rising tide of abolitionism, such a display of racism would have caused issues both in the North as well as Baltimore. The third largest city in the US at the time with the largest population of free Blacks in the US, free Blacks--and enslaved Blacks-- who had just helped save the city, Baltimore was in no mood for racist rhetoric the day after its major victory.

...

At the outset of this piece I suggested that the solutions found by the humanities to many problems are those that just seem real and authentic. The solutions that spin a narrative that best seem to fit the facts and context as known at that time are what we seek in the humanities. Change the context or the known facts and you may decide on a different explanation and solution for the problem. In this rather tedious piece I have presented the evidence as I know it and tried to place it within the context of which I am aware. Based on that, I believe Key simply used the phrase "hireling and slave" as a rhetorical device in his poem Defence of Fort M'Henry in order to describe the British Army and Navy repelled from Baltimore's door in September 1814. In the true spirit of the humanities, however, if you provide me evidence that changes what I know, I just might change my mind.

[Baywayric]

This does it for me, every time!

Air Force Teams Up with Lee Greenwood for Patriotic God Bless the USA Performance | Military.com

Happy 4th!

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by ithos

Please take some time and research the background of BLM the organization.

We are anti-capitalist:
We believe and understand that Black people will never achieve liberation under the current global racialized capitalist system.

ABOUT US – M4BL
Movement for Black Lives - Wikipedia


They are a radical leftwing extremist group who don't give a damn about improving the lives of blacks or any other group. They are simply opportunists who believe the ends justify the means. And the ends is an overthrow of our Constitutional Republic.

[/url]

Excellent post.

It's actually rather amazing how uniformed "Champagne Bolsheviks" are with respect to BLM. Most are guilt ridden white liberals who say they support BLM but they can't make a coherent case for why they do ... although they can be quick to call you a racist if you disagree.

There are only two explanations I can think of.

They either a) have zero knowledge about what BLM actually advocates except that makes them feel good, or b) they support what's advocated but are not yet comfortable coming out and saying so in public.

Am I missing a third explanation maybe?


...

[barbnick]

Originally Posted by John41

Next we will be saluting a BLM flag and singing Kumbayah. The NFL players today are overpaid prima donnas not fit to walk in the cleats of the players of the past. As for the NBA I’ll take Bob Cousy any day.

Wow!!

[aa1949a]

let the NFL and NBA pay for all the damage the blm did with their looting. Some were peaceful.