[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

My initial response was "unbelievable", but I guess those posts were expected, I'll just say "res ipsa loquitur"

Now here's are two really great things about our CAPITALISTIC DEMOCRACY:

1) There IS very little socialism

2) This country is not a prison. Those who want to wallow in failure with those living in a European style socialist crap hole are free to leave.

Which crap holes? Those with better healthcare less expensive and better outcomes? Those with happier citizens? Just about any metric you can name they are doing better than we are.

It never was the way, we were the place other countries sent their people to learn how we did things so well, like education, postal service, interstate high way systems, healthcare, on and on. US was NUMBER 1 in almost everything.

Now, for example, we rank 33 out of 36 in infant mortality in OECD countries. So, yeah, we suck, and as long as a certain segment of the country keeps pushing US exceptionalism, it won't get better.

Complaining about problems is not the same as hating our country. I earned may right to complain about what is going on. I love my country and I want it to be number one again - do you?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I would like to see the evidence. I was a Federal Government employee for 35 years, hired out of college with nothing more than a college degree. No experience. I had job security, great benefits, and a very generous pension. I believe that I made a lot more money than any apprenticed tradesperson, and did a lot less work. I have been retired for 15 years, and have received almost as much money in pension income than I made in the 35 years I was employed. The only thing I did was to go to college for 4 years and had a great time doing it. I would never recommend that a young person pass up the opportunity to get a 4 year college degree in exchange for learning a skilled trade. It may not be fair, but having a college degree can be a ticket to success, even if you are not very smart. Just my opinion.

In other words you are basing your opinion on things 35 years ago. 35 years ago you didn't pay $50K for a college degree - upfront, before you had a job.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

In other words you are basing your opinion on things 35 years ago. 35 years ago you didn't pay $50K for a college degree - upfront, before you had a job.

Well, the Federal Government is only getting bigger and bigger. The IRS is hiring 87,000 new agents and they will need to have a college degree. I can almost guarantee that those new agents will have job security, a great career, and make a lot more money than any plumber or electrician. The Government is immune to recessions and they pay college graduates more money than skilled workers. But, I would be smart and get an affordable degree, not one that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. But, I think that having a college degree in today's world will put a young person in a much more advantageous position than being able to install a sink. Also, it is a myth that you need to be smart to get through college. Anyone with half a brain can earn a college degree. If you are 18, why not spend 4 years and get a degree that will last a lifetime?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Which crap holes? Those with better healthcare less expensive and better outcomes? Those with happier citizens? Just about any metric you can name they are doing better than we are.

It never was the way, we were the place other countries sent their people to learn how we did things so well, like education, postal service, interstate high way systems, healthcare, on and on. US was NUMBER 1 in almost everything.

Now, for example, we rank 33 out of 36 in infant mortality in OECD countries. So, yeah, we suck, and as long as a certain segment of the country keeps pushing US exceptionalism, it won't get better.

Complaining about problems is not the same as hating our country. I earned may right to complain about what is going on. I love my country and I want it to be number one again - do you?

Which crap holes??? Pretty much ALL of them.
Those with better healthcare??? None of them even come close to the US
Happier citizens???? Well, the saying that ignorance is bliss.

We rank 33 out of 36 in infant mortality----What a joke! That is a WHO trumped up statistic. Why? Because all those other 35 countries only count deliveries beyond 34 weeks gestation in their statistics. We, on the other hand, count any 24 week premie to a crack mother than goes "wah" once and dies in our mortality rate. Level the playing field, WHO, except they don't want to because they believe in socialist crap holes.

Guess what---WE ARE NUMBER ONE!!!!!!!

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Unlike those that took out a student loan, people who live in "hurricane zones" didn't sign a contract with the weather gods to have a hurricane wipe them out.

But they chose to live in a high risk area where homeowners insurance would be impossible to get without either government assistance or the cost of their risky choice being subsidized by the premiums being paid by homeowners living in relatively lower risk areas. Related to that is exactly how many times are taxpayers going to pay to rebuild New Orleans, which sits below sea level smack dab in the middle of a Hurricane belt?

[Number 10 GI]

A friend's granddaughter went to a small local state college, lived at home, worked after school and during the summer break. Grandparents helped a bit on the tuition, but the girl paid most of it herself and received a couple small scholarships. She graduated with a Bachelors degree in marketing, a field that is always hiring. She then started working, while still living at home, on her Masters through an on-line program. Completed her Masters and was hired by Caterpillar Corp and is working at the corporate headquarters in Dallas, TX. ZERO student loan debt. She is very intelligent and worked hard to maintain a high grade point average and that is how she got the scholarships, through hard work and perseverance. You don't need to go to an expensive university to get a good paying job with a promising future.

Nobody held a gun to anyone's head forcing them to take out student loans. If someone is too stupid to research the career fields that are hiring and take courses for that field, I have no sympathy for them.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Which crap holes? Those with better healthcare less expensive and better outcomes? Those with happier citizens? Just about any metric you can name they are doing better than we are.

It never was the way, we were the place other countries sent their people to learn how we did things so well, like education, postal service, interstate high way systems, healthcare, on and on. US was NUMBER 1 in almost everything.

Now, for example, we rank 33 out of 36 in infant mortality in OECD countries. So, yeah, we suck, and as long as a certain segment of the country keeps pushing US exceptionalism, it won't get better.

Complaining about problems is not the same as hating our country. I earned may right to complain about what is going on. I love my country and I want it to be number one again - do you?

If it is so horrible, why do they keep trying to get into the country? Which country has more immigrants?

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Nobody held a gun to anyone's head forcing them to take out student loans. If someone is too stupid to research the career fields that are hiring and take courses for that field, I have no sympathy for them.

Many years ago when we went to our daughters graduation from a major state university I couldn’t believe what I saw. The diplomas were handed out by major. The engineering, physics, mathematics, science, business, pre- med, and other related departments were very small departments and almost every graduate was foreign, mostly Asian or Indian. Then came the Psychology, Philosophy, and other Liberal Arts type departments and there were thousands of students in each department, almost 100% fat, stupid, and drunk Americans, getting diplomas so they could go live in their parents basements and hope their student loans would be forgiven. I supposed a few of them wound up getting jobs in some big corporations human recourses department creating obstacles for the real workers to get productive things done. It was very sad indeed! At least back then there weren’t big departments for topics like social justice, climate awareness, or diversity and equality officers. It’s no wonder the once great USA is rapidly loosing its edge : (

[Djean1981]

Many went into the military or directly into the workforce because there was no money for college. Many, including myself, took just one or two classes at a time and self studied and took every possible clep and Dante's exam for cheap credits. It's the slow route, but it gets you there.

A Harvard professor on Twitter was expressing his gratitude on behalf of his students. If someone with a degree from Harvard needs a $10k bailout, something is amiss...

So, those that struggled for years to pay for school now have to help pay for others as well...

And, technically, those that NEVER had the opportunity to go to college, likely need the $$ way more than college graduates.

It's all very bizarre.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Don't know where you worked your way thru college - but in 1966 when I attended college and worked my part-time job at Bamberger's Dept Store the min wage was $1.96/hr which equals out to close to $11/hr today.

As you say - discussing abusive tuition costs are for another day.

I went to college about 10 years after you did (75-79). Tuition, room & board (at the Univ of MD) were just over $2,100/year... I could make most of that working weekends and over the Summer (I worked construction, making $7.50/hr...)

I had plenty of friends who were able to work their way thru college.

My point was that TODAY, that is not possible...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

How many colleges/universities have such coaches to make money for them much less have a football team?

How many colleges/universities pay $10 Million for a coach?

My point was, that those who do (those with huge football/basketball programs) get a positive return on that investment...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

More than 11.8 million Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans were issued as of June 30, 2021, with 708 borrowers receiving the maximum loan amount of $10 million. Of the total number of loans, 4.1 million have been forgiven. The average dollar amount forgiven was $95,700.

Apple and kumquats...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

you mean a $10,000,000 coach can make money for the college, but a $2,000,000 coach can't????????

Not if he can't produce a successful program... WINNING = $$$

But I do agree, Coaches salaries have gotten to be insane, just like the athlete's salaries have...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Speedie

Dream on. In the 60s I could not attend college because I had to work 12 hrs a day. But i bought my first house at 22, always paid for my car loan and insurance. Raised a family that never missed a meal. Finally at ago 40 I went to college while working a full time job at night shift and paid for all the college bills. I now have a masters degree all paid for by me with hard work.
Now I am going to be taxed to pay for others that choose to sign up for big loans and never intended to pay the money back.
This is stealing money from some to pay for others that made bad choices

So, you chose to start a family and buy a house. Your choice. You could just have easily waited to start a family and finished your education. Again your choice.

But I'm glad things worked out for you!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Carla B

Now that's an interesting viewpoint and there's probably truth to it. I do wonder why in this day and age so many people feel the need for a college degree. They, and us, would be much better off monetarily if they trained to be skilled craftsmen, like electricians, plumbers and HVAC technicians. But that would require hard work.

Mike Rowe has been touting this for years!