[kingofbeer]

Originally Posted by Kelevision

What??? It’s constantly ranked in the top places for quality of life, healthcare and generally much better than Florida.

Agreed. Great healthcare, great schools.

[Taltarzac725]

I worked with about 40 prisoners at Minnesota Correctional Facility -Stillwater as a student then Student Co-Director at the University of Minnesota Law School from late August or early September 1987 to May 1989. I found some had committed crimes that made them outcasts within the prison system. Others seemed to get a long with other inmates. My biggest headache was a prison lawyer type who kept throwing things at me while would have taken up all my free time. My supervising attorney told me to just forget about it.


My point is that the prisoners at Stillwater were very different from one another.

A few had committed very violent crimes but most of the others did not.

Two of these violent offenders were kids but were out of prison. I am not sure that either had been incarcerated but were for some reason attached to Stillwater. We were helping with defense for them related to their victims suing them.


I had started looking about how to improve materials in libraries for survivors/victims of crimes soon after graduating from the U of Minnesota Law School especially when the national law librarian convention was in Reno, Nevada the Summer of 1989.


I did find the people I contacted in Minnesota about my concerns very professional and open to my suggestions. I had ordered a directory from the National Organization for Victim Assistance and wrote quite a number of victim assistance providers in Minnesota soon after I got the Directory.


I was trying to spark a dialog between librarians of all kinds and victim witness assistance providers about the information needs of those most affected by violent crimes.

I would say that Florida responses left a lot to be desired. But I did have a great talk
with some law librarians in the Miami area over the phone. This was probably after we moved to Florida in 1996. Maybe even when we were in the Villages. Not sure the date or even year.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by kingofbeer

No. What they have in common is guns. Did you see the size of the shells he used? These shells are for warfare, not hunting. There are millions of people with mental disorders who do not own guns. More often than not, those with mental health issues and guns kill themselves and do not shoot others (it's called suicide).

You just put your thumb on the real problem, "mental illness". Institutions are needed and invention necessary. What people can't understand is that if a seriously disturbed mental health person can't get a gun, they will use the next horrendous method they can lay their hands on. Be the method of poisoning, knives, fire, bombs and so forth. They are sick and want to kill. And fewer police services and any gathering of people leave us all more vulnerable, the public squares here make me concerned.

[bruce213]

I believe part of the problem is "our" gun culture. We have Americans sending out Christmas Cards with a family picture of all holding a gun.
I understand it's a 2nd amendment statement, and that not everyone with a gun will hurt someone. But the prevalence of guns in our society is off the hook. Whether it's greeting cards, games, symbols guns are elevated beyond a simple tool. And yes I am a gun owner.

We need to tackle gun perception, mental illness, and bullying. Along with tightening up some gun laws.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by kingofbeer

Agreed. Great healthcare, great schools.

AI; "Minnesota schools generally perform well nationally, though specific rankings vary by source and year, with one 2025 report placing it 27th overall, while another from Education Recovery Scorecard showed the state ranked 16th in math and 8th in reading between 2022-2024 for education recovery." Minnesota is not a strong as it once was but it's neighboring state of Wisconsin is holding it's own. Don't know how long because a large influx in population from those fleeing Illinois have moved in. AI: Wisconsin's public schools are highly regarded, often ranking among the top states nationally. Recent rankings place Wisconsin's Pre-K-12 education system at 5th best in the nation, according to WalletHub. U.S. News & World Report ranks Wisconsin #10 for higher education and #20 for Pre-K-12. Additionally, Wisconsin's strong performance is reflected in specific metrics like math scores (ranked 5th), SAT scores (ranked 5th), and a low drop-out rate (3rd lowest).

[justjim]

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[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by bruce213

I believe part of the problem is "our" gun culture. We have Americans sending out Christmas Cards with a family picture of all holding a gun.
I understand it's a 2nd amendment statement, and that not everyone with a gun will hurt someone. But the prevalence of guns in our society is off the hook. Whether it's greeting cards, games, symbols guns are elevated beyond a simple tool. And yes I am a gun owner.

We need to tackle gun perception, mental illness, and bullying. Along with tightening up some gun laws.

Agree. Just based on common sense. But in practical terms getting a lot of weapons now in houses out would be impractical. Gun manufacturers should be more responsible though with what they make and sell in the future. A reasonable person probably can tell what a weapon is that has little connection to everyday life and belongs more on a battlefield.


But always keep in mind the lessons of Prohibition. They outlawed booze and soon made the criminals getting it into the US or manufacturing it here rich and very connected.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Not sure how much of a connection there is between videos and someone killing real people. There are millions of people who play violent video games.

Mentally stable people, not impressionable young minds already stressed by their situations.

[jimjamuser]

I can suggest something that would work, but it can't be implemented because there would be great push back. The simple solution would be to only sell single shot rifles, pistols, and shotguns to the public. The Police and the Army should be the ones using repeating firearms. NOT the general public. Single shot weapons can be used for home self-defense and for sporting use.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I can suggest something that would work, but it can't be implemented because there would be great push back. The simple solution would be to only sell single shot rifles, pistols, and shotguns to the public. The Police and the Army should be the ones using repeating firearms. NOT the general public. Single shot weapons can be used for home self-defense and for sporting use.

There are too many very fast shooting weapons already out there. We are a nation of guns. I sold most of mine to get letters out to victim assistance providers all over the United States and some abroad in 1992 and 1993.


I had first written victimologists all over the world about my problems with law libraries in 1991 and how they thought I should proceed. They did not have high hopes about much of anything.


But now thankfully all the technology out there makes getting victims survivors connected with assistance providers easier. But there are still those who are not very good with technology.


What is needed is more respect for guns and how much damage they can do to the human body. I do think we have become desensitized to this kind of violence. We need to wake up to how hard some survivors have dealing with all that.


Not sure if John Wick kind of movies, video games, and the like play much of a part in desensitized people. Since so many people watch and love thee kind of movies but do not seem to feel a need for violence.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Not sure how much of a connection there is between videos and someone killing real people. There are millions of people who play violent video games.

Not to mention all of us who grew up on Road Runner and Bugs Bunny cartoons, and Westerns on TV, Friday the 13th movies - and our generation didn't turn into a horde of psychopaths.

Mental health is absolutely a problem. We need more funding to combat it, as it isn't merely a matter of mommy telling Junior "no."

We ALSO need more robust enforcement of our existing national gun laws (yes, we actually have them, they're just not enforced efficiently). I also believe that we need to have more -minimum- gun law standards. Leave additional restrictions up to each state, but minimum standards would be - a national database that is continually updated, every time law enforcement agency on the federal, state, or municipal level adds to it, universal background checks using that database, and anyone who goes to a gun show has to have their government-issued ID (drivers license, passport, or state-issued ID, or government agency employee id, for example) scanned on the way in, when they make a purchase, and their ID scanned again on their way out. And just like cars don't kill people - drivers kill people. Guns don't kill people. Shooters kill people. So license them the same way drivers have to be licensed to drive. An eye test, a competency (physical target-shoot) test, and a written test. Renewable every "x" years.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by bruce213

I believe part of the problem is "our" gun culture. We have Americans sending out Christmas Cards with a family picture of all holding a gun.
I understand it's a 2nd amendment statement, and that not everyone with a gun will hurt someone. But the prevalence of guns in our society is off the hook. Whether it's greeting cards, games, symbols guns are elevated beyond a simple tool. And yes I am a gun owner.

We need to tackle gun perception, mental illness, and bullying. Along with tightening up some gun laws.

I agree and I am a gun owner for hunting and home defense. Not military style weapons to be a pretend Rambo.

[Warren]

Quote: Most countries in the civilized have solved that problem.[/QUOTE]

We don't do anything because we don't have the political will.

In Singapore itis illegal to own a gun. In New Zealand you have to ask the government for permission to own a gun. If you own a gun you must have two gun safes. One for the gun and one for the ammunition. From what i understand, that has all but eliminated mass shootings in that country. There are many compromises within this article. Ban "assault style" weapons, ban large capacity magazines and rapid fire weapons and devices that make a gun rapid fire. None of these eliminate the second amendment. Keep the second amendment.

There has got to be compromise. I am sorry to say: until there is a will, then stop wasting my time. Accept that we are not as civilized as we would like to think. Accept that, that daily mass shootings are part of he American daily life. It is who we are..........until we are ready to do something about it. The time is now !

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Warren

We don't do anything because we don't have the political will.

In Singapore itis illegal to own a gun. In New Zealand you have to ask the government for permission to own a gun. If you own a gun you must have two gun safes. One for the gun and one for the ammunition. From what i understand, that has all but eliminated mass shootings in that country. There are many compromises within this article. Ban "assault style" weapons, ban large capacity magazines and rapid fire weapons and devices that make a gun rapid fire. None of these eliminate the second amendment. Keep the second amendment.

There has got to be compromise. I am sorry to say: until there is a will, then stop wasting my time. Accept that we are not as civilized as we would like to think. Accept that, that daily mass shootings are part of he American daily life. It is who we are..........until we are ready to do something about it. The time is now !

This sounds like a political stance. See your US congressman or state senator to get it done.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Warren

Quote: Most countries in the civilized have solved that probl

We don't do anything because we don't have the political will.

In Singapore itis illegal to own a gun. In New Zealand you have to ask the government for permission to own a gun. If you own a gun you must have two gun safes. One for the gun and one for the ammunition. From what i understand, that has all but eliminated mass shootings in that country. There are many compromises within this article. Ban "assault style" weapons, ban large capacity magazines and rapid fire weapons and devices that make a gun rapid fire. None of these eliminate the second amendment. Keep the second amendment.

There has got to be compromise. I am sorry to say: until there is a will, then stop wasting my time. Accept that we are not as civilized as we would like to think. Accept that, that daily mass shootings are part of he American daily life. It is who we are..........until we are ready to do something about it. The time is now !

Good suggestions.


Maybe they also need a number like 911 for people who suspect someone is about to go off the deep end. Not 911 though. Something manned by social workers trained in psychology. And a number that has very calm people who see a swatting like incident for what it is. Given the "crooked timber of humanity" you have to prepare for things going wrong.