[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by frayedends

Just found out from a prominent villages real estate agent (MLS) that there can indeed be a contract for a buyers agent in Florida (though she rarely uses one). Also the agent can act as a transactional agent representing both buyer and seller. But that can get tricky if issues arise. Her video is on YouTube. Her name is Robyn Cavallaro. The video title mentions what buyers agent can do. She basically confirmed everything I’ve said in this thread.

Buyer's agency, Seller's agency, transactional brokerage and no brokerage relationship are all possible in Florida. Dual agency is not allowed as that requires an agent's fiduciary duty extend to both buyer and seller. Chapter 475 Section 278 - 2023 Florida Statutes

Over the years I have utilized licensees in every one of these capacities in multiple states in both residential and commercial purchases and sales.

[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by Randall55

You must have misunderstood her. A dual agency in Florida is prohibited. Read the Florida real estate law. No one on this thread stated a buyer could not have a contract in Florida with an agent. We all stated it is a choice. You DO NOT have to use a buyers agent to close a real estate transaction.

Yes, most buyers agents in Florida do not use contracts. The reason? The buyer would have to pay the purchase price of the home PLUS A FEE to the buyers agent.

A buyers agent does not get paid until the SELLER accepts an offer. The buyers agent then receives his commission through the SELLERS FUNDS. This is the reason for the lawsuit. It causes inflated commissions for THE SELLER.

Once real estate laws change due to this lawsuit, a buyer will HAVE to pay his agent out of his pocket. I highly doubt a buyer is going to pay his buyers agent an additional $12,500 on top of the purchase of a $500,000 home. They will deal direct with the listing agent where they will have no additional cost. See? Inflated commissions gone!

I never use a buyers agent. I deal with the listing agent direct. So much easier!

[Normal]

All this is for not…the flat fee is coming! No more percentages will apply.

[billsr]

Everybody here who talks about eliminating Buyer Brokers should read this carefully. The lawsuit is setting the opposite situation. It is encouraging more buyer representation with the buyer paying their own fee.

[billsr]

Please go online and research the legal pros and cons of your decision to use the Seller's Broker.

[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by billsr

Everybody here who talks about eliminating Buyer Brokers should read this carefully. The lawsuit is setting the opposite situation. It is encouraging more buyer representation with the buyer paying their own fee.

I believe we understand that. Are you going to pay your buyers agent $10,0000+ out of your pocket to help you buy a home? That cost is in addition to the sales price.

Good news! You won't have to! Don't use a buyers agent and deal with the listing agent direct. No fees for you!

[billsr]

Randall55-
An agent can work with a buyer but they do not represent them unless they have a signed contract with them. If there is no contract then the agent is representing the Seller as a sub-agent of the Seller's agent. There are all kinds of laws about who can do and say what in these agency situations centered around fiduciary responsibility and confidentiality.

Legally, a buyer who does not have a contract with an agent is a prospect or a customer whereas a buyer with a contract is a "client". That contract between the Buyer and his agent should stipulate how he/she gets paid and by whom. It could be the buyer, the seller or both paying the fees.

One of the problems with the lawsuit is that they are basically pushing the business to use Buyer Broker agreements. If that becomes a reality and the Buyer is responsible for the buying side fees there is no provision in the financing industry to cover that. Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, VA and all of the government lending operations do not allow that commission to be financed and they usually set the tone for what is the norm.

[billsr]

Randall5-
In regards to the fiduciary responsibility and confidentiality...

If you and I have a Buyers Broker Agreement, then I must NOT share anything you tell me with the Seller or the Sellers Agent without your permission. If you write an offer and tell me that you are willing to go higher, I cannot share that info. However, if the Seller or their agent told me that he/she was willing to go lower, I am obligated to share that with you. If the Seller's Agent tells me that the seller is willing to go lower, then he has breached his responsibility to the seller. If you take advantage of it and the seller discovers the breach, he can sue his agent for the difference in price and recover it.

[billsr]

Margaretmattson-
Yes, because I believe they will save or gain me more than that.

However, how do you see this unfolding? Are the sellers going to reduce prices to account for the reductions in commissions? Or the same thing for listing agents? How does anybody really gain? Yes, you can use the listing agent but they owe 100% loyalty to the Seller, not you.

It is like going to trial and using the opponent's attorney. If you had seen all the losses and mistakes that I have, you would feel different. To your good fortune you have only seen no problem deals but all you need is one bad deal to lose big $$$. Under your theory why not drop your insurance, too.

I once saw a closing agent embezzle $4,000,000 of my client's money. I got it back for them but if I had not been their agent, I would not have even tried.

[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by billsr

Please go online and research the legal pros and cons of your decision to use the Seller's Broker.

A buyer reviews his pros and cons, in the end, he decides IF he wants a buyers agent.

Two Examples:

1. Suppose a buyer is not against remodeling to get a good price on the home. Who is better to use? A home inspector or someone in construction who can tell him the actual costs of the remodel. Or, a buyers agent who will only tell you "Yeah, that should be easy to fix." Let's close the deal and pay me $10,000. The home inspector's charge would be much less and their information more valuable.

2. A buyer has looked at many homes in the area. He is quite aware of the prices being asked. He finds a comparable home that he likes in that price range. Why does he need a buyers agent? It's highly unlikely that agent is going to get a significant price reduction. He is just going to tell you, "That's a fair price. I think you should buy." The buyer ALREADY KNEW it was a fair price. Do I need to pay the agent $10,000 to tell me that?


There are pros and cons on BOTH sides. A buyer has the CHOICE to decide which is best for him.

Anyone stupid enough to give out his financial standing should expect to be embezzled. When I buy a home, I give a letter from my bank stating I have the funds. No other financial information is provided. I also use a real estate attorney to handle the paperwork. Their fees are about the same as a title company but with more to offer.

[Randall55]

Originally Posted by billsr

Margaretmattson-
Yes, because I believe they will save or gain me more than that.

However, how do you see this unfolding? Are the sellers going to reduce prices to account for the reductions in commissions? Or the same thing for listing agents? How does anybody really gain? Yes, you can use the listing agent but they owe 100% loyalty to the Seller, not you.

It is like going to trial and using the opponent's attorney. If you had seen all the losses and mistakes that I have, you would feel different. To your good fortune you have only seen no problem deals but all you need is one bad deal to lose big $$$. Under your theory why not drop your insurance, too.

I once saw a closing agent embezzle $4,000,000 of my client's money. I got it back for them but if I had not been their agent, I would not have even tried.

Sorry to point this out.You must not have been a good buyer's agent if you allowed $4,000,000 of your client's money to be embezzled. How did the closing agent know he had that kind of money? How did they gain access? It was your responsibility to make certain that information was not divulged.

I am only a contractor. When I deal with a buyer direct, I remind him not to share his financial situation. Even with me! As the seller, I only need a letter from a financial institution that states the buyer has the funds.

IMHO, real estate transactions go bad because the buyers agent is not equipped to handle or give advice on situations. Does a buyers agent see a problem with a home BEFORE the home inspection? Do they see a possible termite infestation? Can they handle changes that need to be made in contracts? etc.etc. No! They are ordinary salesmen.To state anything different is a lie. Your mishandling of your client's funds proves this point.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by Randall55

Sorry to point this out.You must not have been a good buyer's agent if you allowed $4,000,000 of your client's money to be embezzled. How did the closing agent know he had that kind of money? How did they gain access? It was your responsibility to make certain that information was not divulged.

I am only a contractor. When I deal with a buyer direct, I remind him not to share his financial situation. Even with me! As the seller, I only need a letter from a financial institution that states the buyer has the funds.

IMHO, real estate transactions go bad because the buyers agent is not equipped to handle or give advice on situations. Does a buyers agent see a problem with a home BEFORE the home inspection? Do they see a possible termite infestation? Can they handle changes that need to be made in contracts? etc.etc. No! They are ordinary salesmen.To state anything different is a lie. Your mishandling of your client's funds proves this point.

My wife as a buyers agent finds issues with homes before inspection all the time. She knows what a house will be worth after renovations (for the flipper clients). She finds errors in the purchase and sale contracts that lawyers missed more than you could imagine. She knows the loan limits for VA or FHA loans. She knows what lenders are good and which ones will have crazy requirements. She makes sure contract dates are met so the buyer doesn’t lose their deposit. So yeah.

[Randall55]

Originally Posted by frayedends

My wife as a buyers agent finds issues with homes before inspection all the time. She knows what a house will be worth after renovations (for the flipper clients). She finds errors in the purchase and sale contracts that lawyers missed more than you could imagine. She knows the loan limits for VA or FHA loans. She knows what lenders are good and which ones will have crazy requirements. She makes sure contract dates are met so the buyer doesn’t lose their deposit. So yeah.

I understand. You are arguing because your wife is a buyer's agent. I will argue no more. It's rough learning you may lose your job because of a lawsuit. Best of luck! And, I mean that.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by Randall55

I understand. You are arguing because your wife is a buyer's agent. I will argue no more. It's rough learning some people may lose their job because of a lawsuit. Best of luck! And, I mean that.

She is a buyer's agent and a listing agent. The seller pays the same in most cases, regardless. She won't be losing her job. The lawsuit could change how buyer's agents are paid. There's really nothing to argue about. I'm telling you the things that buyer's agents do. Like all professions, some are good at their job and some aren't. My wife is a top agent for a reason. There are many that aren't great agents. People need to do their research. If they know what they are doing and think they can save money without an agent then go for it. But if you want guidance and don't know all the ins and outs of a real estate transaction you may want to find a good agent. As I said, in most cases (currently) it doesn't cost more.

If you do decide to have no buyer's agent, maybe ask the listing agent up front if they will discount their commission.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by margaretmattson

I believe we understand that. Are you going to pay your buyers agent $10,0000+ out of your pocket to help you buy a home? That cost is in addition to the sales price.

Good news! You won't have to! Don't use a buyers agent and deal with the listing agent direct. No fees for you!

This is purely a speculative question. I don't pretend to know the answer. Say they do indeed remove buyer's agent fees from the listing. Do you think listing agents will lower their commission? What if they are no longer making the money as a buyer's agent (most agents do both). If they still charge ~5%, it doesn't really change anything except the buyer isn't represented.

If a buyer now can pay a fee, maybe a fixed fee, they will be paying more if the selling agents aren't lowering commissions. Keep in mind the agents need to make a living.