[oneclickplus]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

There seems to be a growing trend toward violence surrounding the COVID vaccination and masking.

People assaulting restaurant workers for enforcing the restaurants rules - wear masks to enter. Not a singleton event/

Flight attendants assaulted for enforcing the airlines rules - wear masks. Not a singleton event.

And now a person, anti-vaxer, is accused of killing his brother, a pharmacist, to stop him from giving vaccinations.

So far most of the media has not covered this story, so I can't vouch for it's veracity.

"According to the charging documents filed against Burnham related to the Howard County murders, Burnham told another unnamed person that his brother was “killing people with the COVID shot.”

Maryland man allegedly fatally shot his pharmacist brother for ‘killing people’ with the COVID vaccine, court records show - Baltimore Sun

Well, when the government is forcing the vaccine on freedom-loving Americans under penalty of career, job, ability to function in society ... you have to EXPECT that some will respond like this. While that will never be my response to others being vax'd, I do understand the sentiment. If someone came to my door attempting to force the vaccine into MY arm, they will suffer from lead poisoning. What this man did was wrong - it was not self defense. Let's just wait and see how the world looks in the next 12-18 months.

I'm in Maryland at the moment and the story is indeed true. Surprised at this? Not at all. If the government keeps pushing, people will push back. Not everyone will react the same but don't expect meek compliance.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

Well, when the government is forcing the vaccine on freedom-loving Americans under penalty of career, job, ability to function in society ... you have to EXPECT that some will respond like this. While that will never be my response to others being vax'd, I do understand the sentiment. If someone came to my door attempting to force the vaccine into MY arm, they will suffer from lead poisoning. What this man did was wrong - it was not self defense. Let's just wait and see how the world looks in the next 12-18 months.

I'm in Maryland at the moment and the story is indeed true. Surprised at this? Not at all. If the government keeps pushing, people will push back. Not everyone will react the same but don't expect meek compliance.

Indeed.

People ARE pushing back, but on an individual level and through court actions. But we'll never read about that, especially in any paper (won't mention any names here) whose idea of presenting national "news" is running AP screeds.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Eg_cruz

Very unfortunate but our country has been divided by hate for the last 6 years and I don’t see if getting better anytime soon.
We have become so divided that we just stopped listening.
Fix the hate and it will fix the problem.
I am not mad at anyone for their choice to be vax or not…..because it is not my place to tell you what to do with your life, just like it is not your place to tell me.

It sure would be nice if you can have open conversations with out the hate that has divided us.

Execellent post, so out of place here...

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Andyb

So what’s your point? Anti-vaxers are violent people? I guess we forgot about BLM and Antifa riots and violence?

If this was directed at me, my point was/is that violence is increasing, and while the violence is probably mostly by "crazies", it is triggered by a lot of anger discourse.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by tsmall22204

Did you see the picture of the guy that killed his brother? Someone should check to see who else in his family he killed

If you read the story, you know he is charged with killing several other people also.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

The idea that Americans "HATE" is ludicrous. The word "hate" is misused and abused. Just because someone does not agree with you does NOT mean that they "hate" anyone. The term "hate" is just used to shut down a discussion. Just like calling someone a racist, of sexist is a means to shut down the conversation.

I am not an "anti-vaxxer" but I do believe in one's right to make a choice regarding their own well being. If they wish to decline the vaccination, so be it. How can anyone judge someone when there is all kinds of stories and studies regarding the dangers of being vaccinated? On the other hand, rushing to be first in line to get the shots when one is in fear should also not be judged.
I have my shots but I doubt (right now) that I will get a booster. And for those that scream that we should do it for other folks, the only person I would consider doing it for is my spouse. I owe no one else, and do not feel responsible for anyone else.

So, quit using the asinine terms like hate, racist, sexist, etc. It does not further a civil discussion.

I think you make a lot of good points here. But, your statement implies that there is no hate, and that is not accurate.

Here is a sign I saw on the way home from town just the other day, it seems to reflect pure hate to me. Just what it is that they hate is fairly clear, the segment of our society that disagrees with them. (or that they disagree with).

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

Well, when the government is forcing the vaccine on freedom-loving Americans under penalty of career, job, ability to function in society ... you have to EXPECT that some will respond like this. While that will never be my response to others being vax'd, I do understand the sentiment. If someone came to my door attempting to force the vaccine into MY arm, they will suffer from lead poisoning. What this man did was wrong - it was not self defense. Let's just wait and see how the world looks in the next 12-18 months.

I'm in Maryland at the moment and the story is indeed true. Surprised at this? Not at all. If the government keeps pushing, people will push back. Not everyone will react the same but don't expect meek compliance.

Several things.

1. The government forces vaccinations all the time, that way they save millions of lives - measles, mumps, smallpox, polio, et al. And no one kills their pediatrician.

2. NO I do not expect civilized intelligent American's to kill each other because one of them is trying to help people get protection from a pandemic.

3. Killing your brother because you disagree with their politics. That is your recommendation?

Sounds like advocacy of violence, I assume that is not what you are advocating?

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Several things.

1. The government forces vaccinations all the time, that way they save millions of lives - measles, mumps, smallpox, polio, et al. And no one kills their pediatrician.

2. NO I do not expect civilized intelligent American's to kill each other because one of them is trying to help people get protection from a pandemic.

3. Killing your brother because you disagree with their politics. That is your recommendation?

Sounds like advocacy of violence, I assume that is not what you are advocating?

The Federal government is not in the business of mandating vaccines. See below. The vaccinations referred to in Point #1 of the quoted post all refer to STATE-mandated vaccines.

"States have long had the constitutional authority to mandate vaccinations, which the Supreme Court has upheld twice, first in 1905 and then in 1922. The federal government, however, has limited power to mandate vaccines. It can only require them to prevent transmission of a dangerous infectious disease across state lines or international borders. The federal government has never sought to require nationwide vaccinations, and the courts probably would not allow it." (Scientific American, August 5, 2021)

The issue is not the efficacy of the vaccines(s) in question. The issue is Federal government overreach, which in the end will only be settled by the SCOTUS. My guess is that SCOTUS will confirm that it is a states-rights issue and that the Federal government has no business trying to mandate COVID vaccine or any other vaccine for that matter.

[Petersweeney]

Cuomo did it

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

The Federal government is not in the business of mandating vaccines. See below. The vaccinations referred to in Point #1 of the quoted post all refer to STATE-mandated vaccines.

"States have long had the constitutional authority to mandate vaccinations, which the Supreme Court has upheld twice, first in 1905 and then in 1922. The federal government, however, has limited power to mandate vaccines. It can only require them to prevent transmission of a dangerous infectious disease across state lines or international borders. The federal government has never sought to require nationwide vaccinations, and the courts probably would not allow it." (Scientific American, August 5, 2021)

The issue is not the efficacy of the vaccines(s) in question. The issue is Federal government overreach, which in the end will only be settled by the SCOTUS. My guess is that SCOTUS will confirm that it is a states-rights issue and that the Federal government has no business trying to mandate COVID vaccine or any other vaccine for that matter.

Semantics, unless you are suggesting another civil war to resettle the states vs federal authority.

And it would seem you are advocating murdering your brother if you disagree with his politics.

And last, this action was not a states rights protest, the shooter claims to have murdered his brother for trying to help people. There is NO federal mandate to be vaccinated, the closest that comes is the feds suggesting companies do it. The ONLY mandate the feds have put in place is for federal employees.

So, your reply doesn't seem to apply to this shooting, unless your point is that the president suggesting businesses require vaccinations is illegal, and this shooter was exercising his "RIGHTS" by stopping his brother for obeying a non-existent law?

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Execellent post, so out of place here...

we come close. we have members on both sides who can still sit, enjoy coffee & read the thoughts of those among us. yes, it gets a bit hot @ times, but we always come back. truth is, i like some of you guys on the 'other side', the pix of wildlife you share, quick wit, amusing quips & plain old wisdom. toxic hate is bad for the mind & soul.

[petiteone]

Originally Posted by SkBlogW

Says the person who posts a story meant to paint anyone who refuses masks or vaccines as a violent and crazy murderer.

Tens of millions of Americans who have survived covid have stronger and longer lasting immunity than the fully vaccinated. Are they anti vaxers?

85% of the virus expelled by infected individuals is contained in very fine aerosols. Surgical and cloth masks do nothing to stop these aerosols whether they are breathed out or breathed in. It is basic physics. Are people who understand basic physics anti maskers?

As a retired MD I can tell you that people who have survived COVID are being told to get the vaccine because it provides stronger and longer protection from COVID. Please get educated. I wore a mask every day of my career and it's verified protection.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by PugMom

we come close. we have members on both sides who can still sit, enjoy coffee & read the thoughts of those among us. yes, it gets a bit hot @ times, but we always come back. truth is, i like some of you guys on the 'other side', the pix of wildlife you share, quick wit, amusing quips & plain old wisdom. toxic hate is bad for the mind & soul.

Thank you for the kind words. And yes, I have to remind myself occasionally that the "toxic" here are numbers in the dozens out of the 75,000 here in TV.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by petiteone

As a retired MD I can tell you that people who have survived COVID are being told to get the vaccine because it provides stronger and longer protection from COVID. Please get educated. I wore a mask every day of my career and it's verified protection.

Sadly, one side of our country doesn't believe in science. And I can't get any closer to the truth without another enforced vacation. The good news in that here in TV the majority (85%? - I like that percentage and use it in many contexts ) of residents are vaccinated, now if we can just get them to wear masks too, life will be good, birds will sing and smiles will return.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Sadly, one side of our country doesn't believe in science. And I can't get any closer to the truth without another enforced vacation. The good news in that here in TV the majority (85%? - I like that percentage and use it in many contexts ) of residents are vaccinated, now if we can just get them to wear masks too, life will be good, birds will sing and smiles will return.

Which "side" is that? The same "side" that comprises the bulk of those 85% who are vaccinated in TV?