[justjim]

Originally Posted by Carla B

In a prior thesis, OP also gave his reasons for not getting a COVID vaccination.

Benjamin Franklin also took the risk of not getting his young son vaccinated for smallpox. That decision didn't work out well.

"Despite Franklin's enthusiasm for the inoculation, he didn't inoculate his young son, Franky, who died from the disease in 1731 during an outbreak in Philadelphia.

In his autobiography, Franklin wrote, "I long regretted bitterly & still regret that I had not given it [smallpox] to him by inoculation." Coss said this suggests Franklin had a choice about whether to inoculate his son, but didn't because his wife disagreed with the decision. Indeed, in 1759, Franklin wrote that if "one parent or near relation is against [inoculation], the other does not chuse to inoculate a child without free consent of all parties, lest in case of a disastrous event, perpetual blame should follow."

Read more at Smithsonian.com.

Originally published on Live Science.

OP, points out the “Dangers” in life, some self imposed and others not. Until recently the Pandemic is something none have faced as a life experience. We have a choice to climb a ladder, ride a motorcycle without a protection, Jeep without doors, cycle on Morse, etc. etc. The Pandemic is something entirely different. What we do or not do IMHO can affect other living human beings. For example, a mask protects others, social distancing protects others and washing your hands protects others. Yes, it protects you too. Finally, getting a vaccine protects you and others. I see a difference between the “dangers” from a Pandemic and other potential “dangers” in life. It’s common sense not rocket science...

[jswirs]

Originally Posted by DaveGodin

Your faulty argument depends on blurring the lines between risks within our control with those that are not. But there is a huge difference.

I will tackle one of your examples, riding motorcycles, where I have some expertise. I taught motorcycle safety in PA for 6 years, nationally certified and trained by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, and have over 40 years riding experience,

Motorcycling is risky behavior, but for motorcyclists the reward outweighs the risk. Through training the risk of crashing may be reduced, but reduced is not the same as eliminated. But wearing a helmet may save a life by protecting the head in an unavoidable crash. Some people choose not to wear a helmet and in making that choice accept greater risk. That added risk appears to affect only the motorcyclist without a helmet, but it really also affects other motorcyclists as insurance rates are higher in states where helmet use is optional. So it isn't just about us as our actions also impact others.

We have the same issues with COVID. The virus is with us and outside our control. But we can mitigate the risk of contracting the disease by wearing a mask, just as a helmet prevents head injury. But the mask doesn't just protect us, it protects the people around us. If we were COVID positive, and unaware of it, we could infect many people as we've seen at superspreader events. Just as mandatory helmet wear keeps everyone's insurance rates down and prevents the superspreading of insurance rate increases.

The point is that we should mitigate those risks we can. Why take unnecessary risks? And we have to realize that it isn't just about us. We live in a world with other people and our actions affect others, just deciding to not wear a helmet affects the cost of everybody's insurance and and deciding not to wear a mask because of "personal freedom" affects others and may lead to the deaths of friends and loved ones.

You have the right to take whatever risks you choose, but you definitely do not have the right to make others take on more risk because of your actions.

Well, I can tell you this, those who refuse to wear a mask will not change their minds because of reading any of these post. Just yesterday as I was walking into Sam's Club an employee was asking those who were entering without a mask if they would like a mask. The gentleman behind me, who was not wearing a mask, just waved the mask offer away with his hand. He continued to shop throughout the store without a mask. So, IMHO, anyone who thinks they can change an anti-masker into a mask wearer is simply wasting their time. Oh, by the way, by my observations, about 10 to 20% of mask wearers do not have their mask pulled up over their nose. The morale here...GET USED TO IT FOLKS!

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by jswirs

Well, I can tell you this, those who refuse to wear a mask will not change their minds because of reading any of these post. Just yesterday as I was walking into Sam's Club an employee was asking those who were entering without a mask if they would like a mask. The gentleman behind me, who was not wearing a mask, just waved the mask offer away with his hand. He continued to shop throughout the store without a mask. So, IMHO, anyone who thinks they can change an anti-masker into a mask wearer is simply wasting their time. Oh, by the way, by my observations, about 10 to 20% of mask wearers do not have their mask pulled up over their nose. The morale here...GET USED TO IT FOLKS!

Unfortunately, we cannot fix stupid and in my opinion the only thing to do is to protect oneself and ignore others. As long as you are masked properly, keep your distnce and use the proper hygeine we will get through this. However, you gotta hope karma gets those who refuse to follow protocol.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I missed the point of this post.

We both have had both shots. I don't know but we will probably wear masks in public out of good manners. It is a small thing to ask. We are grateful to be free of the worry of the high risk to us from Covid-19 if we were to catch it AT OUR AGE. I know someone who felt just like you and now he is dead from Covid-19.

Everyone has their own value system and their own code of ethics and their own philosophy of life and their own set of rules of life. Some value fun more than a scientists assessment of risk. I have always believed Fauci. I watched power shift in this country because 70% when polled believed Fauci. If you want to run things, you had better listen to the people who hold the power. That would be all of us Americans.

Great ending paragraph. Kudos!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jswirs

Well, I can tell you this, those who refuse to wear a mask will not change their minds because of reading any of these post. Just yesterday as I was walking into Sam's Club an employee was asking those who were entering without a mask if they would like a mask. The gentleman behind me, who was not wearing a mask, just waved the mask offer away with his hand. He continued to shop throughout the store without a mask. So, IMHO, anyone who thinks they can change an anti-masker into a mask wearer is simply wasting their time. Oh, by the way, by my observations, about 10 to 20% of mask wearers do not have their mask pulled up over their nose. The morale here...GET USED TO IT FOLKS!

The moral of the story is REALLY, " don't get used to bad behavior" because today's bad behavior will have to be eventually changed to good behavior by mandatory laws. For example, the seat belt laws. And I know.......someone will say that the CV thing will be over before laws need to be passed - maybe? But, there could be more Pandemics in the near future because of Global Warming.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The moral of the story is REALLY, " don't get used to bad behavior" because today's bad behavior will have to be eventually changed to good behavior by mandatory laws. For example, the seat belt laws. And I know.......someone will say that the CV thing will be over before laws need to be passed - maybe? But, there could be more Pandemics in the near future because of Global Warming.

Because of Global Warming????

Of course I believe in Global Warming caused by allowing more heat in through the layers in the sky that have always protected us. That caused by fumes and gases used in manufacturing to keep industry alive. Industrialization has halved poverty and hunger since 1990. It is not a simple solution. But I do not see Global Warming as a factor in a pandemic.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Because of Global Warming????

Of course I believe in Global Warming caused by allowing more heat in through the layers in the sky that have always protected us. That caused by fumes and gases used in manufacturing to keep industry alive. Industrialization has halved poverty and hunger since 1990. It is not a simple solution. But I do not see Global Warming as a factor in a pandemic.

Thanks for the question! I will elucidate. There are many side effects of Global Warming. ( as we know there are side effects to any action or situation) The biggest and worse side-effect that the world will have to deal with is mass human migration away from the warm equator areas toward the north and south temperate zones. This will cause friction and border disputes and big immigration problems in the temperate zones - like in the US where we are currently being invaded by impoverished people across our Southern border! BIG problem! (with no good solution in the US which currently does not have an infrastructure and resources to handle the current 360 odd million people) (Not to mention the social turmoil of a new bout of acculturation needed for newer ethnic and cultural people from Central America. We can't properly educate the children already here in our public schools) Europe has been dealing with this migration for about 2 years after the large amounts of African farmland dried up. Europe had no good solution and the US has no solution and has just BARELY recognized the problem.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Because of Global Warming????

Of course I believe in Global Warming caused by allowing more heat in through the layers in the sky that have always protected us. That caused by fumes and gases used in manufacturing to keep industry alive. Industrialization has halved poverty and hunger since 1990. It is not a simple solution. But I do not see Global Warming as a factor in a pandemic.

We all saw what happened in Texas. The southward trough of VERY cold air that hit Texas happened because of the dynamics of Global Warming (recently called Global Weirding) and the warming of the NORTH polar regions.

Finally, the other effect of Global Warming that was the basis of the question : how are the CV Pandemic and Global Warming related? The CV Pandemic seems to have originated in the Wuhan region of China. A prevailing theory is that it started in the large "WET MARKETS" there. Many scientists believe that the CV jumped from BATS to humans at that market. Those particular bats were not NORMALLY local to those wet markets. But, due to Global Warming, many species of animals and bats are moving to new areas, just like the humans are migrating. Also, many animal species will be (and currently are) going extinct. Also plants. Some animals will increase in numbers, maybe bats, but more will die out. Another factor in the spread of Pandemics, in general, is the increase of international travel and airline flights - this is like an improved delivery system for Pandemics. Sorry for so many words, but I wanted to fully explain as many aspects or side effects of Global Warming. It is EVERYWHERE. It even explains why the US GNP will be decreasing compared to Canada's GNP which will be increasing in the future. Greenland and Alaska have more farming potential now. The list of effects goes on-and-on. Thank you for the question. I hope you and others get a chance to read it.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The moral of the story is REALLY, " don't get used to bad behavior" because today's bad behavior will have to be eventually changed to good behavior by mandatory laws. For example, the seat belt laws. And I know.......someone will say that the CV thing will be over before laws need to be passed - maybe? But, there could be more Pandemics in the near future because of Global Warming.

🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
You have to keep up! For very good reasons “Global Warming” has been losing traction. And therefore the climate activists needed a new buzzword. One that could encompass any and all weather related changes. If it’s too hot, if it’s too cold, if it’s too wet, if it’s too dry, if there are a lot of hurricanes, if there were fewer hurricanes, if it’s windy, if it doesn’t snow, or if there are blizzards, they can still blame people for causing the problem. They just needed the right buzzword: “Climate Change“...
Get with the program...

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Swoop

🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
You have to keep up! For very good reasons “Global Warming” has been losing traction. And therefore the climate activists needed a new buzzword. One that could encompass any and all weather related changes. If it’s too hot, if it’s too cold, if it’s too wet, if it’s too dry, if there are a lot of hurricanes, if there were fewer hurricanes, if it’s windy, if it doesn’t snow, or if there are blizzards, they can still blame people for causing the problem. They just needed the right buzzword: “Climate Change“...
Get with the program...

One of the things that make me want to bite, is someone telling me what to call things.

I cannot, will not in a tree.
I refuse to do it, let me be.
It makes me feel I've stepped in Poop.
When I'm corrected by a guy named Swoop.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Swoop

🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
You have to keep up! For very good reasons “Global Warming” has been losing traction. And therefore the climate activists needed a new buzzword. One that could encompass any and all weather related changes. If it’s too hot, if it’s too cold, if it’s too wet, if it’s too dry, if there are a lot of hurricanes, if there were fewer hurricanes, if it’s windy, if it doesn’t snow, or if there are blizzards, they can still blame people for causing the problem. They just needed the right buzzword: “Climate Change“...
Get with the program...

[[I]B]
““Global warming[/I]” refers to the rise in global temperatures due mainly to the increasing
concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

“Climate change” refers to the increasing changes in the measures of climate over a long period of time – including precipitation, temperature, and wind patterns.”[/B]

What is the difference between global warming and climate change?

“Weather refers to atmospheric conditions that occur locally over short periods of time—from minutes to hours or days. Familiar examples include rain, snow, clouds, winds, floods or thunderstorms.

Climate, on the other hand, refers to the long-term regional or even global average of temperature, humidity and rainfall patterns over seasons, years or decades.”

Global Warming vs. Climate Change | Resources – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

I will go with the experts rather than a poster on here.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

One of the things that make me want to bite, is someone telling me what to call things.

I cannot, will not in a tree.
I refuse to do it, let me be.
It makes me feel I've stepped in Poop.
When I'm corrected by a guy named Swoop.

Wow! My post wasn’t in response to your post. I wasn’t correcting you. I responded to the same post you did, and I generally agree with your response...

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by Bucco

[[I]B]
““Global warming[/I]” refers to the rise in global temperatures due mainly to the increasing
concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

“Climate change” refers to the increasing changes in the measures of climate over a long period of time – including precipitation, temperature, and wind patterns.”[/B]

What is the difference between global warming and climate change?

“Weather refers to atmospheric conditions that occur locally over short periods of time—from minutes to hours or days. Familiar examples include rain, snow, clouds, winds, floods or thunderstorms.

Climate, on the other hand, refers to the long-term regional or even global average of temperature, humidity and rainfall patterns over seasons, years or decades.”

Global Warming vs. Climate Change | Resources – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

I will go with the experts rather than a poster on here.

My point was that the climate activists basically hijacked the term “Climate Change” and use it interchangeably with Global Warming. Another new favorite is “Climate Crisis”. The climate activists want to blame any change in weather on humans and those buzzwords give them more leeway...

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

I long "thesis" for sure, but I read every word. Could not agree more, being BORN, being ALIVE is a VERY risky thing ! No other way to say it. I believe the deeply rooted psychological aspect, and what is causing such a huge divide in our population, is the difference in the emotional needs of various individuals. Your post of the cartoon of Mrs. Dumpty is so telling; people experience very different levels of fear and this dictates much of how they live their lives.

Let's face it, there are those in our community right here that would not step a foot in a grocery store and have not visited with friends and neighbors for months. Others, often vilified and much worse on this site, have weighted the risk for them personally, have chosen to see friends, dine out, and attend various events. Others seem angry, and even defiling and wishing death on those who are only choosing what is right for them, not at all trying to impose on others. This is puzzling, but so typical of humans !

If a person chooses to dine with friends inside a local restaurant, and has NO deep seated need to suggest or insist that others do the same, why does that ignite such volatile anger in others who have no desires or intentions to go to the same restaurant, or who only grocery shop via internet or curbside pickup ? Human nature is the answer of course. Those of you who have gone beyond basic into to psychology know from your education that insecure individuals have a deep need to be reinforced in their opinions, beliefs, and desires. Have you ever had a friend or neighbor who bought a _____ automobile, or a ____ appliance, and then did everything in their power to go beyond convincing, nearly insisting that others buy the same brand or kind they did ? Have you ever wondered why a few people are like this ? Fear and insecurity.

So, the situation we are in is part of human nature. Fear rules the lives of some, while others might be judged (Mr. Humpty) as wildly irrational in relation to the risk/reward factor. Most of us fall in the middle of that spectrum, we make the choices we feel comfortable with based on our experiences and our formal education, the extent of our reading and research, and to some extent our own fear, or lack of it, of death and dying.

All of the things you mentioned are so well thought out, some practices are risky, seems statistics (which can be manipulated to "prove" anything) do back up the wise decision to wear a helmet when driving a motor cycle or riding a bike. We generally accept that life preservers should be present on every boat, even if just using one in a stream or narrow river, but, that does not always happen.

Today two governors of states that have repealed mandated (emphasis: "mandated") mask laws have expressed and clarified that they are NOT opposed to masks for those who believe they are actually effective, they are NOT asking residents to not wear masks, or no "social" distance, they are simply joining 17 other states which do not, and have not, made such things "law", or "mandates". People are still free to take the precautions they believe is best for them, it's simply that making "laws" really has little effect, that's becoming very clear as we analyze the comparisons between and among states and countries with strict laws and mandates and lock downs in response to the virus, and others that did not take such drastic measures as criminalizing simple behaviors like not wearing masks in public, attending religious services, or dining out. This is not a political statement, it is an analysis of facts about human behavior we have known for centuries now.

No answers that I know of, all people will act, and re-act, according to their own level of fear as you pointed out. Nice to see some in-depth and actually reflective and rational "discussion" on this community site... so often just filled with irrational, "gut" (emotional) reactions based on.... nothing ! Ladders ? YES, the warnings on a ladder are so "over the top" makes you wonder why anyone would ever chance using one ! More dangerous than going to Publix without a mask even ? Enjoyed your post and your points.

Speaking of psychology - maybe the psychologist needs a psychologist. The post explains how "OTHER" people have INSECURITIES such that they need to have their OPINIONS reinforced by others. Notice that these are 2 anti-vaxxers showing off their OWN insecurities by constantly trying to SELL us with their psycho-babble about "individual rights" and anti-vaxxing and anti-masking and "it is OK to mingle and spread whatever disease you wish because it is MY God-given right to screw the public"!

Just like 2 little clown children playing in 1 st grade, "We don't stop for no one"!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Swoop

🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
You have to keep up! For very good reasons “Global Warming” has been losing traction. And therefore the climate activists needed a new buzzword. One that could encompass any and all weather related changes. If it’s too hot, if it’s too cold, if it’s too wet, if it’s too dry, if there are a lot of hurricanes, if there were fewer hurricanes, if it’s windy, if it doesn’t snow, or if there are blizzards, they can still blame people for causing the problem. They just needed the right buzzword: “Climate Change“...
Get with the program...

Once again I get taken out of context and someone focuses on one word or something other than the main idea.