[justjim]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

You can stop right there. He would not have been able to be a surgeon, a lawyer, in a few states a police officer (some require an associates degree or better), in some states a licensed electrician. He chose to limit his options. Maybe he didn't want to be any of those things, but by dropping out, he eliminated the possibility, even if he wanted it.

100%. College is required for a number of occupations today and further education beyond HS makes you a better police officer and electrician. Nobody can take an education away from you but it’s up to you what you do with it.

[RoseyRed]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

There’s something to be said about going to trade school because those jobs aren’t likely to be replaced by A.I.

very good point!

[airstreamingypsy]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

As long as they pay for it not expect free, but this what society expect now.

Actually many civilized countries offer free college educations. It's almost like they want their countries to have educated citizens.

[RoseyRed]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Both are great options. The point is to expand your education beyond your high school diploma or GED. Learning, just for its own sake, should never be dismissed or discounted. Encouraging students to increase their knowledge base, helps them learn critical and independent thinking skills.

Some people want to be doctors, lawyers - I would not trust a doctor who got a certificate of completion from the James Smith Medical Trade School. If I needed a lawyer, I would HOPE that my state Bar Association had higher standards than "Educated at Lake Community College Law Course."

On the other hand, I'd probably be a little concerned if a guy saying he graduated from MIT offering to replace my roof for a discount.

On the third hand (I have many), either of them who can build me a nice porch bench from a solid slab of maple would be appreciated.

On the fourth hand, I'm not sure I'd trust a guy who got his MBA at Tufts to design my house or wire the electricals in the laundry shed.

It all depends on what the student wants from life. Students shouldn't be pushed toward "career" options just because those options are trendy right now, or currently earning the most money. We saw what happened with the dot-com bust. Many of those people are still living with their parents because of it. You go to the school that suits your interests and aspirations, combined with what you can afford or what scholarships you can earn.

You don't go to trade school to be a heart surgeon, and you don't go to Yale to be a welder. Both can make lots of money in the long run. But not every kid wants to play around with molten metal and constant sparks that can set your face on fire, or has the dexterity required to be a heart surgeon.

I agree with everything except living with parents after dot.com bust. When one thing does not work out move forward to find something else that does work! Don't look for excuses to live off the parents.

[RoseyRed]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I totally agree. A 4-year college degree is always a positive and will never be a waste of time.

As long as that degree does not leave college debt and a field with little to no job opportunities. What kind of salary for that 4 yr degree and how much debt?

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

Actually many civilized countries offer free college educations.

How does a civilized country actually "pay" for all that free college?

[virtue51]

There is a need for people with college degrees and people with skills offered in the trades. Each person needs to find their own path -- you need to have a passion for the work otherwise you will be miserable.

[Taltarzac725]

I have a relative who started as an apprentice as a welder a few years ago. She seems very committed to it. I don't know a lot about welding apprenticeships but sounds like it would be a very marketable skill to have.


Find something you love and try to make it marketable in some way. As long as it is legal .


My Moot Court professor 's student aide back around 1990 had told me to keep fighting for victims rights no matter how long it took. He was also the Human Rights ' professor at the U of Minnesota Law School and had a small library section dedicated to that topic. As far as I know he passed a while back but believe he would be proud of the work I have done. The moot court topic we had was very esoteric and something I still hate about the law by making it as obscure as possible so that only lawyers and judges can understand what is going on.

[tophcfa]

Not all College degrees are equal. Degrees in subjects like quantum physics, data science, engineering, medical, law, finance etc.. have the potential to be extremely lucrative. On the other hand, many degrees aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. About a dozen years ago, at our daughter’s graduation from a large reputable state University, I noticed something very disturbing. The degrees were handed out by major category. When the degrees were handed out to majors like quantum physics, advanced mathematics, engineering, etc… the graduating classes were small and dominated by primarily Asians and Indians. When they got to the degrees like Psychology, Philosophy, or Sustainability Studies, the classes were huge and were almost exclusively fat dumb and happy Americans who were heading home after graduation to live in their parents basements while pursuing a job in the Human Resources department at a large company. Many of those graduates would have been much better off career wise going to a trade school and actually rolling up their sleeves and doing some physical labor. But I’m sure most of them had four really fun years of partying hard and now want their student loans forgiven.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I disagree that not everybody cannot get a college degree. I think that, in today's schools, almost anyone can get a college degree. I have known many coworkers, who were incredibly stupid, but they had a college degree. I agree that these people had no business holding a responsible white collar position, but apparently, a college degree is still the ticket needed to get your foot in the door for many jobs. If that changes, I may change my opinion.

I met several officers in the US Air Farce that had very lightweight degrees and they were NOT particularly sharp.

[jbultema]

For many, a community or technical college is a great way to start. Some find a huge university too intimidating and will get lost in the parties and fail miserably. Others just aren’t sure what they want to do. For some finances are an issue. One can go to a community college and often have a fast track to get admitted to the university of their choice. They can get two years of education for about $6000 and then proceed to the university of their choice. Companies look at where you graduated from, not where you spent your first two years after high school.

[rsmurano]

After high school I was being groomed by Arthur Andersen so they set me up going to city college for 2 years then transferring to the university for the final 2 years then I would go to work for them. During my city college days, I worked as an auditor and I hated it, so I decided to scratch being a financial guy and started taking every computer class that I could take. Since the university didn’t have any computer classes, I continued going to the city college and after a couple years I had multiple companies offering me good jobs being a developer, then after 1 year of experience, I got a much better job and started climbing the tech ladder. I always looked at what my future earnings would be and I shifted to the new technology jobs which offered more money while pushing me to learn more.

As for income, I made at least 2-3x more than a typical IT guy (4x than a typical government it position) while flying around the world having fun giving talks. When I quit at 60, I got an offer 1 hour later for $400k and refused it, so I can play more tennis and cards. $400k is peanuts these days because I would have got into AI and some companies are offering $100,000,000 sign on bonuses to AI gurus.
My wife had a bachelor degree as a geologist and I made 6x more than her, so in the late 90’s, I got a friend to hire her making $50 hr working on y2k programming jobs so she got to learn computer programming on the job and after y2k, she got a real job making 6 digits with 1.5 years of experience. I know others that did the same thing while switching careers.

If I was starting over and I just graduated from high school, I would do the exact same thing education wise but adding 1 mandatory learning skill: investing. I started investing from the late 70’s but if I knew more, I would have done better. I didn’t get good until around 2000. Somebody mentioned about surgeons and lawyers making good salaries, which they do, but I made more last month than a typical annual surgeon salary by investing, and some of my friends did the same.
My take, you should learn more everyday to get better at your job or to progress in your field at the same time, you should learn how to be a better investor and invest more $$$ every month

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by rsmurano

After high school I was being groomed by Arthur Andersen so they set me up going to city college for 2 years then transferring to the university for the final 2 years then I would go to work for them. During my city college days, I worked as an auditor and I hated it, so I decided to scratch being a financial guy and started taking every computer class that I could take. Since the university didn’t have any computer classes, I continued going to the city college and after a couple years I had multiple companies offering me good jobs being a developer, then after 1 year of experience, I got a much better job and started climbing the tech ladder. I always looked at what my future earnings would be and I shifted to the new technology jobs which offered more money while pushing me to learn more.

As for income, I made at least 2-3x more than a typical IT guy (4x than a typical government it position) while flying around the world having fun giving talks. When I quit at 60, I got an offer 1 hour later for $400k and refused it, so I can play more tennis and cards. $400k is peanuts these days because I would have got into AI and some companies are offering $100,000,000 sign on bonuses to AI gurus.
My wife had a bachelor degree as a geologist and I made 6x more than her, so in the late 90’s, I got a friend to hire her making $50 hr working on y2k programming jobs so she got to learn computer programming on the job and after y2k, she got a real job making 6 digits with 1.5 years of experience. I know others that did the same thing while switching careers.

If I was starting over and I just graduated from high school, I would do the exact same thing education wise but adding 1 mandatory learning skill: investing. I started investing from the late 70’s but if I knew more, I would have done better. I didn’t get good until around 2000. Somebody mentioned about surgeons and lawyers making good salaries, which they do, but I made more last month than a typical annual surgeon salary by investing, and some of my friends did the same.
My take, you should learn more everyday to get better at your job or to progress in your field at the same time, you should learn how to be a better investor and invest more $$$ every month

A $100 million sign on bonus. Is that a typo?

[Johnsocat]

Maybe the government should not hire or pay incompetent people - with or without a degree?

[Johnsocat]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I find it interesting that a person can get a trade school degree in their 20's and use those skills for a few years before they need to be updated to get a job.

But, a person can get a 4-year college degree in their 20's and use that degree to get a job for the next 40 years or so, with no updating required.

Many professionals with degrees require taking additional training or recertification.
Doctors, nurses, most health care professions. IT professionals also are required to attend continuing education courses periodically.
Even pharmacy technicians are required to receive continuing education credits.