[Boomer]

I decided to delete my long post written here this morning on the subject of how different things are now for teachers. I got out just in time.

Wrote it. Then deleted it. Twice. Good exercise though.

Boomer

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Here's the difference between all those things and shootings:

A knife's primary purpose is to cut things. Killing people is one of many results that can come from using a knife to cut things, but killing people is not its primary purpose.

A sword - is definitely made to kill people. But it can kill only one person at a time, somewhat slowly, slow enough that anyone else in close proximity can easily get away. It is close-range exclusively - throwing swords is not a thing.

Hammer's primary function is to drive nails, stakes, and similar into surfaces, and remove those nails, stakes, and similar from those surfaces. Secondary function is to secure things that are already placed down to ensure a good fit (such as floor planks, though usually a rubber mallet would be more efficient). Hammers are not intended to be weapons at all, regardless of how they are eventually used.

Wires have many functions - killing is not an -intended- function of them, regardless of how they end up being used.

Stun guns are absolutely weapons - that are intended to cause pain and halt of movement, instead of causing death. Regardless of the ultimate result.

Motor vehicles primary function is to transport people and things from point A to point B. Regardless of how it ends up being used.

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood. They can't get you from point A to point B. They can't cut a steak or strip the skin off a fish. You can't use a gun to network your computer system. No - it's #1 primary function - the reason it exists, the reason people get trained to use them - is to kill.

Nothing mentioned has a will of it's own.

But hey! If your aim is to kill a lot of people in a very short time, a truckload of fertilizer serves admirably. Just ask Timothy McVeigh.

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Think there will be a lot of butt covering and obfuscation before this case gets to trial.
Seems quite a few people dropped the ball somewhere along the line.

i think you are correct, my friend. a perfect storm of circumstances

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Here's the difference between all those things and shootings:

A knife's primary purpose is to cut things. Killing people is one of many results that can come from using a knife to cut things, but killing people is not its primary purpose.

A sword - is definitely made to kill people. But it can kill only one person at a time, somewhat slowly, slow enough that anyone else in close proximity can easily get away. It is close-range exclusively - throwing swords is not a thing.

Hammer's primary function is to drive nails, stakes, and similar into surfaces, and remove those nails, stakes, and similar from those surfaces. Secondary function is to secure things that are already placed down to ensure a good fit (such as floor planks, though usually a rubber mallet would be more efficient). Hammers are not intended to be weapons at all, regardless of how they are eventually used.

Wires have many functions - killing is not an -intended- function of them, regardless of how they end up being used.

Stun guns are absolutely weapons - that are intended to cause pain and halt of movement, instead of causing death. Regardless of the ultimate result.

Motor vehicles primary function is to transport people and things from point A to point B. Regardless of how it ends up being used.

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood. They can't get you from point A to point B. They can't cut a steak or strip the skin off a fish. You can't use a gun to network your computer system. No - it's #1 primary function - the reason it exists, the reason people get trained to use them - is to kill.

Guns are valuable for self defense. Many people are alive today because they used a gun in self defense. The problem is not the gun, per se, it is the user. Guns do not go off by themselves no matter what Alec Baldwin alleges.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Boomer

I decided to delete my long post written here this morning on the subject of how different things are now for teachers. I got out just in time.

In grad school ed law, we talked about in loco parentis — which would have made a locker and backpack search happen without question. — but now the “loco” part of that phrase appears to have a different connotation.

A classmate friend of mine had an older brother who taught mathematics at the junior high school we attended. It was located in a good part of town. Many parents were professionals or owned businesses. We were the HS class of 1960. Anyway, in 1976 my friend and I reconnected and we visited his then retired older brother who with the retired shop teacher were building homes. It turns out both teachers had retired in their early to mid fifties literally the first day they could. I asked them why. Their reply was "The kids changed." Now that was 45 years ago. It was a cakewalk compared to today. Those "kids who had changed" are the parents and grandparents of today's kids which is telling.

[Yjacket74]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

It's high time for adults to be held accountable for their children shooting other students. These parents were totally irresponsible.

I'm amazed that people want to hold the school accountable. BUT it's the parent's responsibility to take the advice of the school and its teachers. The school told the parents the boy needed counseling and the parents did nothing.

The parents bought the gun for their child - a semiautomatic at that. I want law enforcement to charge more parents for these killings. I don't want to worry about my grandchildren at school.

[manaboutown]

Michigan superintendent announces independent investigation of actions leading up to Oxford High shooting | Fox News

Oxford School officials could be charged in deadly Michigan shooting: prosecutor | Fox News

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Here's the difference between all those things and shootings:

A knife's primary purpose is to cut things. Killing people is one of many results that can come from using a knife to cut things, but killing people is not its primary purpose.

A sword - is definitely made to kill people. But it can kill only one person at a time, somewhat slowly, slow enough that anyone else in close proximity can easily get away. It is close-range exclusively - throwing swords is not a thing.

Hammer's primary function is to drive nails, stakes, and similar into surfaces, and remove those nails, stakes, and similar from those surfaces. Secondary function is to secure things that are already placed down to ensure a good fit (such as floor planks, though usually a rubber mallet would be more efficient). Hammers are not intended to be weapons at all, regardless of how they are eventually used.

Wires have many functions - killing is not an -intended- function of them, regardless of how they end up being used.

Stun guns are absolutely weapons - that are intended to cause pain and halt of movement, instead of causing death. Regardless of the ultimate result.

Motor vehicles primary function is to transport people and things from point A to point B. Regardless of how it ends up being used.

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood. They can't get you from point A to point B. They can't cut a steak or strip the skin off a fish. You can't use a gun to network your computer system. No - it's #1 primary function - the reason it exists, the reason people get trained to use them - is to kill.

Odd... Mine have never killed anything (except for some clay targets and paper)...

I must be using them wrong...

[MEbner2805]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

This isn’t the place to discuss politics or news or social events outside the Villages!!!!

You might educate yourself on this criminal case before posting any opinion as you are going to get jumped bad! Let’s not sympathize for some mentally ill evil punk kid who just murdered other kids at a school taking away their lives and ruining hundreds of other lives to include the public who is outraged right now!!!! Go on court TV to discuss that stuff with those listings on the case there! Plenty of others have opinions there you can banter with! Here we are trying to be retired from our jobs and from the rest of the evil world and you should too!!!! Less stress. Less anger. More Happiness. More Peace! Less hate! That’s what matters now.

[meme5x]

Originally Posted by PugMom

yeah, i saw that too, but just for a minute, do you think the school had the DUTY to remove him without parental approval? most may say no, but looking @ what the kid wrote & pix he drew, the school itself had the responsibility to remove him without parental approval. they call the cops in most cases you hear about-why not here?

Being a former school counselor we were bound to report to authorities or face liability ..so I question why the school itself didn’t do more than inform the parents. Think more needs to be investigated.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood.

I guess you never used a hammer gun (live load) to drive a nail into concrete.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Odd... Mine have never killed anything (except for some clay targets and paper)...

I must be using them wrong...

You got it wrong. People don't kill, guns kill. Far as I know, none of mine have killed either. OF course, some of them may have before I owned them.

I remember back in the 70's when I arrived on a domestic call, a guy came out of the house kind of bloody and in disarray. He had just sunk an ax blade into the forehead of his wife. He said, "I didn't do it. I don't know how that happened." It was obvious that the ax was the perpetrator.

[manaboutown]

Even an umbrella can be used to assault and possibly kill someone.

Video: Alec Baldwin Chases After Reporter in NYC, Where He's Set to Host an Awards Gala

https://www.geriwalton.com/the-umbrella-as-weapon/

[Bonnevie]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Didn't you hear? Three teenagers charged with killing high school classmate with knife and sword | The Independent

Third teen in custody in deadly hammer attack | CNN

Strangled with wire, stabbed with stick: 4 Youths Tied to Secret Club Seized in Killing - Los Angeles Times

stun gun: Teens get maximum sentence in death of Uber Eats driver

While 39 and not a teenager, he inflicted multiple vehicular homicides and injuries. Wisconsin: Five dead after car ploughs into Waukesha Christmas parade - BBC News

I took the time to read each of your citations and noted that none of them happened in a school. so, yes, others weapons can kill....but there seems to be some allure to gunning fellow students in the schools.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

I took the time to read each of your citations and noted that none of them happened in a school. so, yes, others weapons can kill....but there seems to be some allure to gunning fellow students in the schools.

None of them happened in a school. I wanted to illustrate that many things can be used as weapons and have by teenagers.

I agree with you that schools are no place children should secretly bring guns. Back in 1959 a problem kid I knew all too well brought a .22 rifle to school to use to threaten another boy who allegedly had showed an interest in his girlfriend. He had stuffed the rifle down his Levi's pant leg and was comically walking around stiff legged. At some point one or more male teachers spotted him and dealt with it. He should have been expelled but continued attending school apparently without a hiccup.

One of my classmates became an architect who designed commercial buildings, including schools. When I chatted with him at the 30th reunion he told me he was designing schools set up with metal detectors to screen entering students and other security features. I responded that sounds like what is built into prisons. He sadly nodded his head. What has this world come to?

Also at that reunion in 1990 we toured our old HS. It had a police substation installed in it. The neighborhood had radically changed and that area had become know as the "war zone". International District, Albuquerque, New Mexico - Wikipedia