[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Nonsense... The entire thing was planned ahead of time on Facebook and other Social Media sites...

Yes. They planned to get there before the restriction time. At the time they showed up, they were there legally. At the time they showed up, they weren't doing anything to violate the law. If the police had acted BEFORE any trouble started, the riots would've been even worse, and the hue and cry would've been that the government has turned the park into a Police State and fascism was ruling the day.

Instead, they got a bunch of angry teens whose parents let them have a cell phone too young, and never taught their kids self-respect, who allowed the mob mentality to rule their day.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by DaveZ

I really can’t tell if you’re condoning this incident, passing the blame, or just softening it. The read feels like tourists don’t matter (in fact a number of residents were sent to the hospital) and seems to be misdirection.

The old “where are the parents” is really a worn out passive response to crime and violence. Police are responsible for protecting the public, not parents. It’s why we support and have them. Every criminal has parents and it doesn’t matter where parents are when crime is committed. Were I in the middle of that mob being beaten, I’d prefer having police actively ending the incident (even if I got gassed) and arresting the assaulters rather than a parent. Even more so preventing the mob in the first place.

Parents are responsible for raising their children. The kids shouldn't have been there in the first place. They shouldn't have been planning a mob or riot in a public park. They shouldn't have been behaving like animals. WHY were they behaving that way? When kids do bad things and get away with it, and the word comes out years later that they did those bad things, people say "oh well he was just a kid at the time." And those bad kids get appointed to the Supreme Court, or the Police Department. Or get elected.

You don't hear too much about how their parents should've taught them to respect women, respect themselves, respect civilization and humanity. You'll hear it from me though. I acted out plenty when I was a kid. But I never participated in a riot. My parents instilled too much self-respect and respect of other peoples' property and respect of the human race as a whole, to participate in a riot.

[DaveZ]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Parents are responsible for raising their children. The kids shouldn't have been there in the first place. They shouldn't have been planning a mob or riot in a public park. They shouldn't have been behaving like animals. WHY were they behaving that way? When kids do bad things and get away with it, and the word comes out years later that they did those bad things, people say "oh well he was just a kid at the time." And those bad kids get appointed to the Supreme Court, or the Police Department. Or get elected.

You don't hear too much about how their parents should've taught them to respect women, respect themselves, respect civilization and humanity. You'll hear it from me though. I acted out plenty when I was a kid. But I never participated in a riot. My parents instilled too much self-respect and respect of other peoples' property and respect of the human race as a whole, to participate in a riot.

I agree that parents may be responsible as are a host of other people or things. I also miss the old days but parents aren’t accountable when a crime is occurring. The individual committing the crime is accountable for their actions and the consequences that occur as a result.

The problem with blaming parents is the logical assumption that criminals all have bad parenting. The justice system in many instances is doing just that by lowering or eliminating sentences because criminals are a victim of upbringing be it parents and/or dysfunctional social environment. It creates its own environment where nearly everyone else including crime victims are accountable (including law enforcement) and have to accept the consequences with less than sincere apologies from society. Since consequences are being set low, so is the deterrent to committing crime. Motivation to commit crime typically moves counterpoint to consequences. Speeding or jaywalking vs drunk driving or assaults are typical good examples. Mob crimes are occurring more often now exactly because they make any accountability to individual criminals difficult even if a parent or social media platform is responsible.

[DaveZ]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Actions have consequences. Allow people to loot and destroy and they will.
Businesses that were destroyed are gone taking jobs with it.

How does anyone condone this?

Good point. I apologize to you OrangeBlossumPoster because neither you nor any of us wouldn’t directly condone the events in Chicago. A better word is “ignore” in the context of criminals and authority accountability.

I would add that as long as citizens do not hold authority accountable for protecting them by deterring crime, we appear to condone it hence the many ideologues and demagogues blaming each other.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by DaveZ

I agree that parents may be responsible as are a host of other people or things. I also miss the old days but parents aren’t accountable when a crime is occurring. The individual committing the crime is accountable for their actions and the consequences that occur as a result.

The problem with blaming parents is the logical assumption that criminals all have bad parenting. The justice system in many instances is doing just that by lowering or eliminating sentences because criminals are a victim of upbringing be it parents and/or dysfunctional social environment. It creates its own environment where nearly everyone else including crime victims are accountable (including law enforcement) and have to accept the consequences with less than sincere apologies from society. Since consequences are being set low, so is the deterrent to committing crime. Motivation to commit crime typically moves counterpoint to consequences. Speeding or jaywalking vs drunk driving or assaults are typical good examples. Mob crimes are occurring more often now exactly because they make any accountability to individual criminals difficult even if a parent or social media platform is responsible.

Its a combination of both social breakdown of the family structure and a the popularity of the "social justice/ restorative justice, restorative justice has accomplished little except restoring more criminals to the street. A juvenile arrested for some criminal activity is usually just returned to the parent , it not being uncommon for the parent to be upset due to the inconvenience of having to show up at the police station to pick the little darling up and berate the child for being caught not not the criminal violation

[CPD050]

Unfortunately, use of gas teams is almost impossible. Back in the day special operations teams were available 24 hrs a day and had large tanks of gas readily available. They could be called up by a deputy chief and arrive on scene within minutes. What a sight, to clear a corner after a good blast from gas team. Now a gas team is a swat team that does not have gas available. It needs to be authorized by the superintendent or his designated subordinate. That will not happen. The real problem in Chicago is that if you manage to catch and arrest someone, they get charges dropped at court. What a waste.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by CPD050

Unfortunately, use of gas teams is almost impossible. Back in the day special operations teams were available 24 hrs a day and had large tanks of gas readily available. They could be called up by a deputy chief and arrive on scene within minutes. What a sight, to clear a corner after a good blast from gas team. Now a gas team is a swat team that does not have gas available. It needs to be authorized by the superintendent or his designated subordinate. That will not happen. The real problem in Chicago is that if you manage to catch and arrest someone, they get charges dropped at court. What a waste.

My experience with tear gas was in the early 1970's when the National Guard and Army Reserve came to college campuses to remove Vietnam war protestors. When a crowd got out of hand, they threw metal canisters of gas and it was very effective at breaking up large crowds. Of course, I was in my dorm room studying when this happened.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Actions have consequences. Allow people to loot and destroy and they will.
Businesses that were destroyed are gone taking jobs with it.

Agree..................seen it in LA, Seattle, Ferguson, Twin Cities.

[justjim]

Police are “dammed” if they don’t use tear gas and “dammed” if they do. An obvious no win situation.

[BigSteph]

Originally Posted by mickey100

You mean like the January 6 insurrection???? I wonder why a lot of TOTV posters didn't register the same amount of outrage.

Why can't you be outraged by both.... I am?

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by BigSteph

Why can't you be outraged by both.... I am?

Sad but true, unfortunately history only seems to give you the choice of supporting the faction you think will do the least damage