[dhdallas]

Originally Posted by GoPacers

For some people here you have too many valid credentials to be believable.

The science behind the vaccine is sound. Perfect? No, but sound. People should stop hiding behind ridiculous statements about why the getting the vaccine is "stupid." The only rational response is I DON'T want to and you CAN'T make me. That's your opinion and enough said. Stop trying to convince us with nonsense why your opinion is anything but an opinion.

1. My credentials are 100% valid. Your challenge to them is an insult.
2. I never said getting the vaccine was "stupid"
3. Everything I stated was not nonsense and most of it contained direct quotes from verifiable sources everyone seems to like such as the CDC & WHO
4. I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything but to "stop & think" before making any decisions

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.

Compliance Theory is when you act the way you are “supposed” to act; either because you were directly asked, or pressured more indirectly

Complicity Theorist (noun) - a person who accepts the political narrative of the day unquestionably; consumes mainstream media like it was 1980; and is prone to submissiveness, outbursts of irrational fear, and public shaming of free-thinkers.

Anybody recognize themselves or what is happening?

“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
― Edward R. Murrow

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Pettys1

You don't have to have risky behavior. You can go to a Dr office an get sick. So just because someone had Covid don't judge them you know nothing about them just your assumptions

I'm one of those folks who believe masking works. There is no doctor's office that I have gone to that does not MANDATE masking. Social distancing is also adhered to in any doctor's office I have been to. In fact, some do not even allow people waiting in their waiting rooms. They call you on your cell phone when the are ready to take you back to a room.

Sorry, I do not buy it that people can become sick even when they wear masks, social distance, and that means to not go any where near crowds and wash their hands frequently and DO NOT TOUCH THEIR FACES. Those are very simple mitigating practices. You do that, you won't get Covid. Be smart out there.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Saying people are afraid is not bullying at all. It is identifying an emotion. It is very possible that if we waited long enough for some to be satisfied that there will be no residual effects, no birth defects etc, that this damn virus will continue mutating until just the grass and trees and a few horses and cardinals are left on this planet.

I don't really want control of this person Justus. I want to debate and discuss her views. I am delighted that almost 90% of American's polled intend to be vaccinated against this virus.

The vaccine could start making us drop like flies in a year or two and not doing anything has already made us start dropping like flies.

The vaccines have been tested to the point of it being UNLIKELY that they will CAUSE us to "drop like flies". That possibility would be likely less than being struck by a meteor.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Really? I have not heard any percentage nearly that high. This is great news if it is true. Which poll did you get this number from?

I have never heard of 90%. I doubt that 65% would say they are getting the vaccine. Some may want to get it after waiting to decide safety for themselves? I don't agree with that logic, of course.

Imposing your beliefs, or thoughts, or actions, onto someone, is removing their freedom of living in this country. Even if you think you are right, and they are wrong.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

That last sentence does NOT make sense to me. If it is supposed to be a good summary to tie the post together, it fell short for me.

His first sentence states the topic, then comes the body and the last sentence reinforces the topic sentence. That is the proper way to discuss a topic. Maybe it was too long for you and you forgot the topic.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I have never heard of 90%. I doubt that 65% would say they are getting the vaccine. Some may want to get it after waiting to decide safety for themselves? I don't agree with that logic, of course.

“Americans may be more willing than ever to get their COVID-19 shot, according to a new survey from Gallup. Since Gallup first began polling Americans on their willingness in July 2020, there was an initial decline in willingness to get a COVID-19 vaccine, reaching a low of 50% in September. Since then, there has been a steady climb to 65% willing in late December, and now, an all-time high of 71% who are willing to get vaccinated.”

Americans''' willingness to get COVID-19 vaccines reaches record high: Poll - ABC News

Dated February 10....71%

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

1. My credentials are 100% valid. Your challenge to them is an insult.
2. I never said getting the vaccine was "stupid"
3. Everything I stated was not nonsense and most of it contained direct quotes from verifiable sources everyone seems to like such as the CDC & WHO
4. I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything but to "stop & think" before making any decisions

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.

Compliance Theory is when you act the way you are “supposed” to act; either because you were directly asked, or pressured more indirectly

Complicity Theorist (noun) - a person who accepts the political narrative of the day unquestionably; consumes mainstream media like it was 1980; and is prone to submissiveness, outbursts of irrational fear, and public shaming of free-thinkers.

Anybody recognize themselves or what is happening?

“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
― Edward R. Murrow

Put your gun down. I am just tryin' to Stay Alive.

I can tell by the way you do your walk, you're a woman's man no time to talk..........

Ah ah ah ah............Stayin' Alive, stayin' alive.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

WOW - well the entire medical community and the CDC disagree.

If I have already had COVID-19 and recovered, do I still need to get vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine?

Yes. Due to the severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that re-infection with COVID-19 is possible, vaccine should be offered to you regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 infection. CDC is providing recommendations to federal, state, and local governments about who should be vaccinated first.

At this time, experts do not know how long someone is protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. The immunity someone gains from having an infection, called natural immunity, varies from person to person. Some early evidence suggests natural immunity may not last very long.

We won’t know how long immunity produced by vaccination lasts until we have more data on how well the vaccines work.

Both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are important aspects of COVID-19 that experts are trying to learn more about, and CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

Will a COVID-19 vaccination protect me from getting sick with COVID-19?

Yes. COVID-19 vaccination works by teaching your immune system how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19, and this protects you from getting sick with COVID-19.

Being protected from getting sick is important because even though many people with COVID-19 have only a mild illness, others may get a severe illness, have long-term health effects, or even die. There is no way to know how COVID-19 will affect you, even if you don’t have an increased risk of developing severe complications. Learn more about how COVID-19 vaccines work.

Will a COVID-19 vaccine alter my DNA?

No. COVID-19 mRNA vaccines do not change or interact with your DNA in any way.

Messenger RNA vaccines—also called mRNA vaccines—are the first COVID-19 vaccines authorized for use in the United States. mRNA vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein that triggers an immune response. The mRNA from a COVID-19 vaccine never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA is kept. This means the mRNA cannot affect or interact with our DNA in any way. Instead, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines work with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease. Learn more about how COVID-19 mRNA vaccines work. ​

At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. That immune response and making antibodies is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus enters our bodies.

source: Myths and Facts about COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC

Fully respect your opinion (or, if you are an M.D., respect that too) but just so people know to check with their own physical, not the postings on here, want folks to know saw my M.D. (not P.A, not Nurse practitioner, etc.) and he holds a very opposite view from yours, no argument, this (I assume) is a forum for information, not to browbeat everyone into accepting one person's view of an issue. But yes, had detailed discussion and not "all" medical professionals agree with your views, and some, at least one I have personal knowledge of, do not share the view of the CDC that they know for certain what you related. We each need to listen to the person we have the most trust in, and, if we have had any formal education on virus replication, transmission, etc. and/or anti-body lab courses, we each factor in our own formal education. That's all we can do actually, so just wanting folks to know while your stance should be respected, the one statement that "all" medical professionals agree is too quantitative is all, but definitely if that is the conclusion you came to after talking to the doctor (or even doctors ?) you trust most, than that is the advice you should follow.

[Quixote]

So much discussion and debate—appropriate about a worldwide pandemic that has already killed about a half million persons in the US alone. Should one get vaccinated or not? Should one wear a mask or not? Should one keep oneself isolated or circulate freely through one's social life? When I look at questions like this, I ask myself:

"What decision would Herman Cain make?"

(Herman Cain, ex-presidential candidate who refused to wear mask, dies after COVID-19 diagnosis | Reuters)

Methinks the OP doth protesteth too much....

[chet2020]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

Myself, my family, my neighbors, and millions of others have already had COVID and are actively (or sometimes called naturally) immune. A person who is now immune cannot get or give the disease. The COVID virus is NOT one of those diseases in which an immune person can be a carrier. Therefore we do not need to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Even if I did not previously have had COVID I would still refuse a vaccine for the reasons that follow.

Many people will argue that active or natural immunity is different from vaccinated immunity. Here is what the CDC says; “Active immunity results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Exposure to the disease organism can occur through infection with the actual disease (resulting in natural immunity), or introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination (vaccine-induced immunity). Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it.”

The WHO (World Health Organization) had this to say. “Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease . Even people without symptoms develop an immune response.”

Who else should consider abstaining from the vaccination? “People with underlying health conditions that weaken their immune systems (such as cancer or HIV) or who have severe allergies to some vaccine components may not be able to get vaccinated.” - WHO

“Vaccines can cause anaphylaxis and other dangerous life-threatening side effects.” - NIH (National Institute of Health)

Example: “The United States stopped giving mandatory smallpox vaccinations 30 years ago. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man.” - CBS News, 60 Minutes

These new COVID vaccines containing genetic instructions were rushed into use with extremely short trial periods. According to the IFPMA, the development of novel vaccines is a long endeavor. “It takes usually between 10 to 15 years to develop a novel vaccine, as well as establishing its quality, safety and efficacy.” states the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations.

The NIH, CDC, Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), and the Department of Defense (DoD) combined to find the vaccine and dubbed the project OWS which stands for “Operation Warp Speed”. - Source/NIH’s National Institute of Infectious Diseases.

So bear in mind when you are being told that this vaccine is safe that this is the same government whose EPA said the air quality at the 9/11 site was safe for the cleanup workers, the DoD who had no qualms conducting LSD experiments on unsuspecting soldiers and said there was no cancer link to Agent Orange, and for-profit drug companies who market drugs in third world countries even though the same drugs have been banned in the U.S. and Europe due to harmful side effects. From 08/30/2017 to 02/03/2021 327 drugs previously approved by the FDA as safe & effective were recalled. This information was obtained from the FDA’s official website.

My final concern is that the COVID vaccines utilize genetic engineering. Messenger RNA vaccines (mRNA) vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA - source/CDC

I am NOT an “anti-vaxxer” nor a conspiracy theorist. I have had the DPT, pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine, HBV, and the zoster vaccine. I am susceptible and was routinely exposed to these diseases at my workplace. These vaccines have a proven record and were not rushed into production.

For those who have NOT already had a positive COVID test, I would carefully weigh the pros & cons of a new, relatively untested vaccine developed at “warp speed” (their words not mine) that uses genetic engineering against a virus that is just a nuisance for most people. Before you jump on me for stating it is “just a nuisance for most people” here is another direct quote from the WHO; “Most people infected with the COVID-19 virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment.” COVID is not on a plane with Ebola, the Plague, Cholera, Malaria, or Yellow Fever. Not even close!

Unfortunately I have found that logical arguments backed by proven science (not “may happen” or “might not be”) fall on deaf ears. It is similar to having an argument over religion. The true believers have blind faith and no person will ever sway their belief no matter how sound the opposing view.

My previously published views on COVID have stirred such animosity that people have gone so far as to wish me “homeless” and that my children “die of cancer”. I have also been called a “quack”, a “know-it-all”, “part of the problem”, a “disgrace”, “brainwashed by Tr_ _p” (of course) and the list goes on and on.

I refuse to be bullied into silence when I see so many people who have been paralyzed with irrational fear and making decisions about their health based on largely one-sided views without fully examining all sides of the issue. Human beings are capable of independent thought and reason. We are not sheep or lemmings.

I am a retired RN, EMT-Paramedic with an ASN degree graduating summa cum laude, a member of 2 national honor societies, with past American Heart Association certifications in Advanced Cardiac Life Support and Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I also am a certified coroner after receiving my training at the Pennsylvania State Police Academy and served as the Chief Deputy Coroner for a county in Pennsylvania. I worked during the onset of AIDS/HIV, H1N1, MRSA & Necrotizing Fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria) and never have I seen such a level of misinformation and a bombardment of articles that focus on rare atypical cases and the hypothetical.

I only include this professional background information to distinguish myself from authors with absolutely no background in healthcare whatsoever and who state unproven theories often with no scientific support. I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. As the actor Walter Brennan was often quoted from an old television show, The Guns of Will Sonnett; “No brag, just fact".

- David H. Dallas, RN-ASN, EMT-P, retired

Cliff notes please? I'll be getting the vaccine, but thanks for trying.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The vaccines have been tested to the point of it being UNLIKELY that they will CAUSE us to "drop like flies". That possibility would be likely less than being struck by a meteor.

ANYONE WHO HAS READ ANYTHING about me on this forum knows I am pro-science and support being vaccinated against Covid-19.

I enjoy a good debate. I am a debate snob; I like good sources, valid sources. ...Like The New England Journal of Medicine and Lancet. There are millions of wonderful nurses and a few that aren't. Ditto school teachers. There are a lot of people who are extremely well read on this subject who do not have a medical background too and tons of them who are not well read at all on this subject who have strong opinions. No one is being forced to take this shot.

I think......well, y'all know what I think.

[Worldseries27]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

myself, my family, my neighbors, and millions of others have already had covid and are actively (or sometimes called naturally) immune. A person who is now immune cannot get or give the disease. The covid virus is not one of those diseases in which an immune person can be a carrier. Therefore we do not need to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Even if i did not previously have had covid i would still refuse a vaccine for the reasons that follow.

Many people will argue that active or natural immunity is different from vaccinated immunity. Here is what the cdc says; “active immunity results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Exposure to the disease organism can occur through infection with the actual disease (resulting in natural immunity), or introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination (vaccine-induced immunity). Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it.”

the who (world health organization) had this to say. “vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease . Even people without symptoms develop an immune response.”

who else should consider abstaining from the vaccination? “people with underlying health conditions that weaken their immune systems (such as cancer or hiv) or who have severe allergies to some vaccine components may not be able to get vaccinated.” - who

“vaccines can cause anaphylaxis and other dangerous life-threatening side effects.” - nih (national institute of health)

example: “the united states stopped giving mandatory smallpox vaccinations 30 years ago. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man.” - cbs news, 60 minutes

these new covid vaccines containing genetic instructions were rushed into use with extremely short trial periods. According to the ifpma, the development of novel vaccines is a long endeavor. “it takes usually between 10 to 15 years to develop a novel vaccine, as well as establishing its quality, safety and efficacy.” states the international federation of pharmaceutical manufacturers & associations.

The nih, cdc, biomedical advanced research and development authority (barda), and the department of defense (dod) combined to find the vaccine and dubbed the project ows which stands for “operation warp speed”. - source/nih’s national institute of infectious diseases.

So bear in mind when you are being told that this vaccine is safe that this is the same government whose epa said the air quality at the 9/11 site was safe for the cleanup workers, the dod who had no qualms conducting lsd experiments on unsuspecting soldiers and said there was no cancer link to agent orange, and for-profit drug companies who market drugs in third world countries even though the same drugs have been banned in the u.s. And europe due to harmful side effects. from 08/30/2017 to 02/03/2021 327 drugs previously approved by the fda as safe & effective were recalled. this information was obtained from the fda’s official website.

My final concern is that the covid vaccines utilize genetic engineering. Messenger rna vaccines (mrna) vaccines have strands of genetic material called mrna - source/cdc

i am not an “anti-vaxxer” nor a conspiracy theorist. i have had the dpt, pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine, hbv, and the zoster vaccine. I am susceptible and was routinely exposed to these diseases at my workplace. These vaccines have a proven record and were not rushed into production.

For those who have not already had a positive covid test, i would carefully weigh the pros & cons of a new, relatively untested vaccine developed at “warp speed” (their words not mine) that uses genetic engineering against a virus that is just a nuisance for most people. Before you jump on me for stating it is “just a nuisance for most people” here is another direct quote from the who; “most people infected with the covid-19 virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment.” covid is not on a plane with ebola, the plague, cholera, malaria, or yellow fever. Not even close!

Unfortunately i have found that logical arguments backed by proven science (not “may happen” or “might not be”) fall on deaf ears. It is similar to having an argument over religion. The true believers have blind faith and no person will ever sway their belief no matter how sound the opposing view.

My previously published views on covid have stirred such animosity that people have gone so far as to wish me “homeless” and that my children “die of cancer”. I have also been called a “quack”, a “know-it-all”, “part of the problem”, a “disgrace”, “brainwashed by tr_ _p” (of course) and the list goes on and on.

I refuse to be bullied into silence when i see so many people who have been paralyzed with irrational fear and making decisions about their health based on largely one-sided views without fully examining all sides of the issue. human beings are capable of independent thought and reason. We are not sheep or lemmings.

i am a retired rn, emt-paramedic with an asn degree graduating summa cum laude, a member of 2 national honor societies, with past american heart association certifications in advanced cardiac life support and pediatric advanced life support. I also am a certified coroner after receiving my training at the pennsylvania state police academy and served as the chief deputy coroner for a county in pennsylvania. I worked during the onset of aids/hiv, h1n1, mrsa & necrotizing fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria) and never have i seen such a level of misinformation and a bombardment of articles that focus on rare atypical cases and the hypothetical.

i only include this professional background information to distinguish myself from authors with absolutely no background in healthcare whatsoever and who state unproven theories often with no scientific support. i do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. As the actor walter brennan was often quoted from an old television show, the guns of will sonnett; “no brag, just fact".

- david h. Dallas, rn-asn, emt-p, retired

e = mc²
EINSTEIN, THE GREATEST SCIENTIFIC MIND, IN MANKIND'S HISTORY, WAS DISMISSIVE OF HIS OWN THEORY'S PRACTICAL APPLICATION. HE STATED IT WAS " LIKE TRYING TO SHOOT 2 BIRDS AT NIGHT OVER A COUNTRY WITH VERY FEW BIRDS".
HE WAS WRONG AS SUBSEQUENT EVENTS PROVED.
THE POINT IS YOUR OPINION IS EITHER
RIGHT
OR
WRONG.
50/ 50 ODDS.
NOT TOO GOOD IF YOU ARE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE.
ANYBODY CAN BE RIGHT OR WRONG NO MATTER THEIR STATION OR PEDIGREE.

[Love2Swim]

Originally Posted by Worldseries27

e = mc²
EINSTEIN, THE GREATEST SCIENTIFIC MIND, IN MANKIND'S HISTORY, WAS DISMISSIVE OF HIS OWN THEORY'S PRACTICAL APPLICATION. HE STATED IT WAS " LIKE TRYING TO SHOOT 2 BIRDS AT NIGHT OVER A COUNTRY WITH VERY FEW BIRDS".
HE WAS WRONG AS SUBSEQUENT EVENTS PROVED.
THE POINT IS YOUR OPINION IS EITHER
RIGHT
OR
WRONG.
50/ 50 ODDS.
NOT TOO GOOD IF YOU ARE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE.
ANYBODY CAN BE RIGHT OR WRONG NO MATTER THEIR STATION OR PEDIGREE.

A friend of mine just died of Covid 2 days ago. A former co-worker a couple months ago. Two young nieces who are teachers had it, but recovered. Another friend in her 50's had it 8 months ago and it took her 5 months to recover, although she has lingering fatigue and sleep problems. Do what you want, but I'm not taking a chance. They've been studying this type of vaccine for years, and based on previous research were able to accelerate the development of the Covid vaccine quite rapidly. The vaccines have all been through rigorous testing and 4 phase clinical trials, and have received independent safety monitoring. None of the vaccines that have been approved have had any serious safety concerns. If I have the vaccine, it prevents me from getting seriously ill, and protects people around me as well, many who are high risk older people. It is part of our toolkit to finally end this pandemic so we can get back to normal.

[Neils]

If you decide not to get a vaccine, do you know that will allow someone else to get theirs quicker?? They will appreciate your decision.

Covid is not a “mild” virus. It kills.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I beg to differ..........

Coming Soon: The ‘Vaccine Passport’ - The New York Times

Like I said.........
New York Times...........