[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

Myself, my family, my neighbors, and millions of others have already had COVID and are actively (or sometimes called naturally) immune. A person who is now immune cannot get or give the disease. The COVID virus is NOT one of those diseases in which an immune person can be a carrier. Therefore we do not need to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Even if I did not previously have had COVID I would still refuse a vaccine for the reasons that follow.

Many people will argue that active or natural immunity is different from vaccinated immunity. Here is what the CDC says; “Active immunity results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Exposure to the disease organism can occur through infection with the actual disease (resulting in natural immunity), or introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination (vaccine-induced immunity). Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it.”

The WHO (World Health Organization) had this to say. “Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease . Even people without symptoms develop an immune response.”

Who else should consider abstaining from the vaccination? “People with underlying health conditions that weaken their immune systems (such as cancer or HIV) or who have severe allergies to some vaccine components may not be able to get vaccinated.” - WHO

“Vaccines can cause anaphylaxis and other dangerous life-threatening side effects.” - NIH (National Institute of Health)

Example: “The United States stopped giving mandatory smallpox vaccinations 30 years ago. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man.” - CBS News, 60 Minutes

These new COVID vaccines containing genetic instructions were rushed into use with extremely short trial periods. According to the IFPMA, the development of novel vaccines is a long endeavor. “It takes usually between 10 to 15 years to develop a novel vaccine, as well as establishing its quality, safety and efficacy.” states the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations.

The NIH, CDC, Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), and the Department of Defense (DoD) combined to find the vaccine and dubbed the project OWS which stands for “Operation Warp Speed”. - Source/NIH’s National Institute of Infectious Diseases.

So bear in mind when you are being told that this vaccine is safe that this is the same government whose EPA said the air quality at the 9/11 site was safe for the cleanup workers, the DoD who had no qualms conducting LSD experiments on unsuspecting soldiers and said there was no cancer link to Agent Orange, and for-profit drug companies who market drugs in third world countries even though the same drugs have been banned in the U.S. and Europe due to harmful side effects. From 08/30/2017 to 02/03/2021 327 drugs previously approved by the FDA as safe & effective were recalled. This information was obtained from the FDA’s official website.

My final concern is that the COVID vaccines utilize genetic engineering. Messenger RNA vaccines (mRNA) vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA - source/CDC

I am NOT an “anti-vaxxer” nor a conspiracy theorist. I have had the DPT, pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine, HBV, and the zoster vaccine. I am susceptible and was routinely exposed to these diseases at my workplace. These vaccines have a proven record and were not rushed into production.

For those who have NOT already had a positive COVID test, I would carefully weigh the pros & cons of a new, relatively untested vaccine developed at “warp speed” (their words not mine) that uses genetic engineering against a virus that is just a nuisance for most people. Before you jump on me for stating it is “just a nuisance for most people” here is another direct quote from the WHO; “Most people infected with the COVID-19 virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment.” COVID is not on a plane with Ebola, the Plague, Cholera, Malaria, or Yellow Fever. Not even close!

Unfortunately I have found that logical arguments backed by proven science (not “may happen” or “might not be”) fall on deaf ears. It is similar to having an argument over religion. The true believers have blind faith and no person will ever sway their belief no matter how sound the opposing view.

My previously published views on COVID have stirred such animosity that people have gone so far as to wish me “homeless” and that my children “die of cancer”. I have also been called a “quack”, a “know-it-all”, “part of the problem”, a “disgrace”, “brainwashed by Tr_ _p” (of course) and the list goes on and on.

I refuse to be bullied into silence when I see so many people who have been paralyzed with irrational fear and making decisions about their health based on largely one-sided views without fully examining all sides of the issue. Human beings are capable of independent thought and reason. We are not sheep or lemmings.

I am a retired RN, EMT-Paramedic with an ASN degree graduating summa cum laude, a member of 2 national honor societies, with past American Heart Association certifications in Advanced Cardiac Life Support and Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I also am a certified coroner after receiving my training at the Pennsylvania State Police Academy and served as the Chief Deputy Coroner for a county in Pennsylvania. I worked during the onset of AIDS/HIV, H1N1, MRSA & Necrotizing Fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria) and never have I seen such a level of misinformation and a bombardment of articles that focus on rare atypical cases and the hypothetical.

I only include this professional background information to distinguish myself from authors with absolutely no background in healthcare whatsoever and who state unproven theories often with no scientific support. I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. As the actor Walter Brennan was often quoted from an old television show, The Guns of Will Sonnett; “No brag, just fact".

- David H. Dallas, RN-ASN, EMT-P, retired

"Something" has been gradually happening in our country relating to "civil" discussion and intolerance not only of the opinions of others, but a general (and dangerous) trend against considering even cited and evidence backed information such as you presented. As you remarked, even stating your credentials, not in an attempt to inflate your own ego, but simply to lead credence to your experience and ability to analyze data and communicate information which is there for all to see in the "science". This tendency to suppress information such as you dug out and posted, only serves to enrage many people who (for some reason?) seem to feel any opposing factual material, opposing studies, or experience with various medications including vaccines (your example of small pox vaccine was spot on, but while many have died (we lost a distant cousin), others will point to the lives that were saved. To me it's not so much the "facts" because we simply don't have them and will not know for some time if each individual made a "right" choice or a "wrong" choice, it is indeed a casino ! The horrors of thalidomide, the polio vaccine tragedy are only two examples.

The real point is not accepting your post as something to look at more deeply, to explore and analyze for ones self, but the over all pattern of rejecting any challenge to one's opinion (and it's relatively easy to spot those posts that come from a purely emotional reaction, a feeling that because he/she holds a different view, such as "this vaccine is well tested and perfectly safe", they not just reject any evidence to the contrary, no, not at all, to me the real danger is that such people do not want ANY contrary evidence, not just opinion but actual evidence such as you cited, to interfere with what they believe. To reject in a discussion, and then give your
evidence, is a mark of the best of discussion/learning. But the growing trend to not just dismiss, but name call (you "bragger" about your education and experience), or "know it all". These are the types of replies that make one wonder what is happening to "us", to this democracy, to rational discourse ? I have spent years in a university environment, once an exemplary example of a democratic republic, unbridled freedom to present all the evidence even if was not what one "wished" it would show.

But colleagues confirm that is no longer possible, contrary views are dismissed out of hand and regardless of evidence and examples, just as many are maligned and "trashed" here, on a "friendly" (compared to Facebook), small, community, social bulletin board. And as you pointed out, it's a no win situation. If one attempts to back up their legitimacy by giving their education or experience in a subject, they are immediately labeled a "braggart or ego maniac", if they do not lend legitimacy, they are of course accused to having no back ground or experience in the topic !
I am much more concerned about this frightening tendency to "fight" fiercely against any evidence to the contrary on any subject, and to diminish and shame anyone who tries to bring opposing evidence to the attention of all and allow EACH individual the FREEDOM to make what boils down to a personal decision after all.

I have stated this before, the more fearful a person becomes the more they will oppose anyone or any thing that challenges the comfort zone they have established to protect themselves. What are we doing to each other and what will the end product of all this be ? Not good I fear !

[allenpegg1@gmail.com]

It takes a "LONG TERM" to know "LONG TERM" consequences with this vaccine or any other ...

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Boston-Sean

Ya, the CDC hasn't been covering itself in glory on this question. Short answer: No, don't bother getting the vaccine if you've already had Covid.

CDC Investigation | Full Measure

OK, the article you posted says the exact opposite...

Anchor Lester Holt: Should I get the vaccine if I’ve already had Covid?

Dr. John Torres: Most experts say it’s a good idea because they’re not sure how protected you are after recovering.

[emb2458]

Glad you do not claim to be an expert. That gets you off the hook for not knowing what scientist know.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Yjacket74

It’s amazing that people like the OP who is an RN (so he says) believes that he can’t get the virus again - vaccination or not. If that were true, then why do people get the flu, which is a Virus, year after year enough though they were vaccinated?
This insane rationalization ranks right up there with Trump not inciting the rioters on January 6.

I can't even begin to explain how ridiculous that statement is, nor how lame a comparison to a political event it was.

[EdFNJ]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

LOL - it's like 30% ... which, by the way, makes me "delighted" that we don't (yet) have a majority of lemmings (see article below). Also, Biden is quoted "there is nothing to worry about". That's reassuring because he's such an intelligent, well-informed man - graduated top in his class, I heard.

Covid vaccine: Dr. Scott Gottlieb says only third of Americans want it

Did you ACTUALLY READ the article you linked ?? Actually what Gottlieb in the article you quote said was: [He was] "basing his forecast on the number of U.S. adults who received a flu shot this past year." That was not a poll on how many want the vaccine but an "estimate" based on flu shots taken.

Here is one POLL that says Nearly Half of American Adults Now Want the Covid Vaccine — ASAP : Poll: Nearly Half of American Adults Now Want the Covid Vaccine — ASAP | Kaiser Health News

And another POLL: Nearly half of all Americans want to get the COVID-19 vaccine as soon as they can, a new poll suggests. That percentage is even higher among those who know someone who has already been vaccinated. Poll: Nearly Half of Americans Want COVID Vaccine ASAP

And another POLL: Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases. Still about two-in-ten ‘pretty certain’ they won’t get vaccine – even when there’s more information. Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases | Pew Research Center

And another POLL: Around half (51%) of the approximately 226 million adults yet to receive a vaccination said they “definitely” plan to receive it when available. https://www.census.gov/library/stori...9-vaccine.html

And another POLL: Share of Americans Who Want Covid Vaccine Growing, Poll Finds. Almost half of 1,563 adults surveyed expressed enthusiasm for getting the vaccine, up from 34% last month, according to a survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-poll-finds

And dozens more ............... Google is your friend.

[matandch]

And my great uncle billy smoked 5 packs of camels a day for 72 years and lived to be 97.

[rmd2]

Originally Posted by dleroux57

Thank you, thank you.

You're welcome. I'm glad you liked my article on baking with raisins.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I can't even begin to explain how ridiculous that statement is, nor how lame a comparison to a political event it was.

But please do.....better than snippets all the time.

[Joorn59]

I wish you and your lungs good health...

[Byte1]

I don't care if you get the shot or not. It's not going to affect me. I do believe that being a denier is kind of an old/ancient idea. Eradicating diseases can be done in two different ways. The old way of attempting to survive a pandemic until everyone that is going to die will die. Or you can be a bit more progressive(ouch!) and use medicine to save as many as possible until the disease is gone. If you are scared of a new vaccine, you have to weigh your fear against your faith in science. Personally, I registered for the vaccination solely based on the idea that I am adding to the protection of my spouse. I too am one of those invulnerable folks that believes that they will never get a serious illness. Never had the flu and rarely catch a minor cold. That said, from the information I have read regarding the serums and how they work, I have been impressed with the technology. Even though many seem to think that this process has had little testing, the fact is that this has been worked on for over a decade, with impressive results. Like I said, this is my reasoning, based on what I have discovered. I dont' care if you all decline the vaccination. If you die, that's on you and your family. If you pass on the virus to your family or friends, that is your guilt to carry also. If the vaccine has long term effects that show up 20 years from now, well I'll be in my 90's, soooo....... If we don't take it, maybe we'll get snake eyes when we roll the dice. I do not listen to posters on a forum to make my decision. I am able to reason and research for myself. I welcome opinions, but also understand that strangers probably don't know any more than I do. Like something else that everyone has, everyone has an opinion.
My suggestion is that unless you know for a fact that a vaccination is dangerous, quit trying to convince others NOT to get it. It may save their lives or the lives of others. Not getting the vaccine is not going to save anyone in your family or your friends. Even if the two folks that have died after receiving the vaccine, died because of the vaccine look at all the millions that did not die from the vaccine. Seems like this vaccine has a pretty good starting record. Just saying. This is my reasoning and I do not expect anyone else to change their mind regarding the positive or negative of the serum. Even though I feel that wearing a mask is nothing more than a placebo effect, I wear it when it is called for, but I do NOT tell others they should not wear one. Even though I feel relatively safe going about my business with my own immune system, I am not going to take the chance of infecting my spouse. If they offer a booster next year, will I get it? Depends on whether I believe there is any danger to my family or friends and how likely being infected will be serious next year. New information is being produced every day on the matter.
Fighting on whether or not to get the vaccine seems redundant. Young folks are shrugging the virus off easier than the common cold. Old folks mostly survive, but suffer some serious effects. Like a famous movie character once said "do you feel lucky, punk?"

[Ltkor]

Originally Posted by EdFNJ

Did you ACTUALLY READ the article you linked ?? Actually what Gottlieb in the article you quote said was: [He was] "basing his forecast on the number of U.S. adults who received a flu shot this past year." That was not a poll on how many want the vaccine but an "estimate" based on flu shots taken.

Here is one POLL that says Nearly Half of American Adults Now Want the Covid Vaccine — ASAP : Poll: Nearly Half of American Adults Now Want the Covid Vaccine — ASAP | Kaiser Health News

And another POLL: Nearly half of all Americans want to get the COVID-19 vaccine as soon as they can, a new poll suggests. That percentage is even higher among those who know someone who has already been vaccinated. Poll: Nearly Half of Americans Want COVID Vaccine ASAP

And another POLL: Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases. Still about two-in-ten ‘pretty certain’ they won’t get vaccine – even when there’s more information. Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases | Pew Research Center

And another POLL: Around half (51%) of the approximately 226 million adults yet to receive a vaccination said they “definitely” plan to receive it when available. Around Half of Unvaccinated Americans Indicate They Will “Definitely” Get COVID-19 Vaccine

And another POLL: Share of Americans Who Want Covid Vaccine Growing, Poll Finds. Almost half of 1,563 adults surveyed expressed enthusiasm for getting the vaccine, up from 34% last month, according to a survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-poll-finds

And dozens more ............... Google is your friend.

Before the vaccines were reviewed and received an EUA, a large percentage of the population, including health care workers, were reluctant to receive the vaccine.

Over 90% of the physicians at the hospital I work have elected to receive the 2 vaccine series now that it is available and the initial data reviewed.

Again, everything in life involves risks. Evaluate the vaccine and make the decision about whether to receive it. But, also recognize the risks of not receiving it.

My colleagues, and myself, overwhelmingly have decided the risk/benefit favors receiving the vaccine.

No one is forced to receive the vaccine. Decline if you wish. Others are waiting in line to receive it.

If you decline, hopefully you stay well. If not, those of us that are healthy will provide to the best care possible.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by mike234

well, one correction. we are sheep. if the product is free, we will line up for days for it, then reline up for free seconds. and if the government says to do it, we will do it
baaaa, baaaa, baaaa

Spoken like a true anti-vaxxer. Thank your for your input.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=Pairadocs;1904125]"Something" has been gradually happening in our country relating to "civil" discussion and intolerance not only of the opinions of others, but a general (and dangerous) trend against considering even cited and evidence backed information such as you presented. As you remarked, even stating your credentials, not in an attempt to inflate your own ego, but simply to lead credence to your experience and ability to analyze data and communicate information which is there for all to see in the "science". This tendency to suppress information such as you dug out and posted, only serves to enrage many people who (for some reason?) seem to feel any opposing factual material, opposing studies, or experience with various medications including vaccines (your example of small pox vaccine was spot on, but while many have died (we lost a distant cousin), others will point to the lives that were saved. To me it's not so much the "facts" because we simply don't have them and will not know for some time if each individual made a "right" choice or a "wrong" choice, it is indeed a casino ! The horrors of thalidomide, the polio vaccine tragedy are only two examples.

The real point is not accepting your post as something to look at more deeply, to explore and analyze for ones self, but the over all pattern of rejecting any challenge to one's opinion (and it's relatively easy to spot those posts that come from a purely emotional reaction, a feeling that because he/she holds a different view, such as "this vaccine is well tested and perfectly safe", they not just reject any evidence to the contrary, no, not at all, to me the real danger is that such people do not want ANY contrary evidence, not just opinion but actual evidence such as you cited, to interfere with what they believe. To reject in a discussion, and then give your
evidence, is a mark of the best of discussion/learning. But the growing trend to not just dismiss, but name call (you "bragger" about your education and experience), or "know it all". These are the types of replies that make one wonder what is happening to "us", to this democracy, to rational discourse ? I have spent years in a university environment, once an exemplary example of a democratic republic, unbridled freedom to present all the evidence even if was not what one "wished" it would show.

But colleagues confirm that is no longer possible, contrary views are dismissed out of hand and regardless of evidence and examples, just as many are maligned and "trashed" here, on a "friendly" (compared to Facebook), small, community, social bulletin board. And as you pointed out, it's a no win situation. If one attempts to back up their legitimacy by giving their education or experience in a subject, they are immediately labeled a "braggart or ego maniac", if they do not lend legitimacy, they are of course accused to having no back ground or experience in the topic !
I am much more concerned about this frightening tendency to "fight" fiercely against any evidence to the contrary on any subject, and to diminish and shame anyone who tries to bring opposing evidence to the attention of all and allow EACH individual the FREEDOM to make what boils down to a personal decision after all.

I have stated this before, the more fearful a person becomes the more they will oppose anyone or any thing that challenges the comfort zone they have established to protect themselves. What are we doing to each other and what will the end product of all this be ? Not good I fear ![/QUOTE]

That is just how people work. That is just being human. We decide what entities we can reasonably trust and trot along in life. If someone decides something to present to us that seems very unreasonable because of our research and convictions, generally we reject it. Most people continue to read and hear new information about important subjects in order to enlarge their views.

This whole subject is intense and for good reason. People ARE dying that might have lived had they had the vaccine. Wishing for people to be safe and healthy is a good thing. Define the problem, gather facts, come to a trial conclusion, check the trial conclusion come to a final conclusion, and then continue to gather facts. Be sure your facts are from dependable and reliable sources.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

Actually, the "entire medical community" does not disagree. It's just the noisy ones on mainstream media that tow the company line.

There are MANY medical voices raising alarm about this vaccine and its long-term effects. There are many medical voices that have shown that hydroxychloriquine is a safe and effective treatment for Covid-19. This is a drug that has been prescribed for decades and suddenly the "entire medical community" bans it for this particular use?

Now that's a conspiracy. When have you ever seen a drug banned (not recalled) from use for a particular treatment because it is "ineffective"? If harmful, I would understand.
But, there's a sinister motive in banning it as ineffective. My guess is to push the shot (it's not a vaccine).

May all you lemmings be properly inoculated with the shot (not a vaccine). I'm already protected by my immune system. I got it from God.

The problem using Hydroxychloroquine for Covid treatment is the high dose regimen proved to be harmful.

Chloroquine or Hydroxychloroquine | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines