[Topspinmo]

Got this unusual problem with one of my circuits. The breaker trips eradicate. I’ve replaced one socket looked kind burnt but not real bad. This problem keeps coming up.

When I test circuit with tester the red light lights faintly. I check voltage with multi meter. I guess going have inspect all outlets on circuit. See it I see anything before I replace breaker?

The tester lights up red faintly at one shown in picture, all rest of circuit outlets test good with only yellow light lite. I have replace that outlet but it connectored with another line I don’t know where those wires go so far?

[Maker]

Ground and neutral should be tied together somewhere upstream. Seeing 5.3vac says the neutral wire is disconnected somewhere before being reaching this outlet. Likely that voltage is more like a static reading because the meter has a very high input impedance. If you put a 3-way outlet adapter in, with the tester and then your meter, I bet the voltages goes close to zero. Or to 117vac, depending on how that tester is set up. (or use a load without a ground lead)
Next step is to look at other outlets located between this one and the breaker. Check the white wires for a bad wirenut, open junction, loose white wire, etc.
Do not tie the white to the ground.
Looks like that outlet is in concrete block. Garage maybe? There could be an outlet on that circuit in the attic too.
Is the breaker tripping a GFCI ?? Power flowing from outlet hot to a device and returning via ground will trip a GFCI.

[jimhoward]

There is a typo in your post somewhere which is obscuring meaning. Maybe the word "eradicate" is in error? Maybe should be erratically? Not sure.

It does not seem likely that the breaker is the problem. Seems more like an intermittent short, particularly if the outlet is burnt. The short is probably right in that outlet box. Are the wires overly crowded in there? If so, maybe replace the box with a bigger one and rewire the outlet. Or maybe just rewire in the existing box but being careful to make sure nothing is jammed together or potentially exposed wire touching.

[village dreamer]

my guess is a gfi , outside.it rains it pops the gfi.

[Topspinmo]

Thanks for suggestions. I did some digging around in outlet shown. There a grounding screw in box that was loose? The ground came into box from the main breaker fastened to grounding screw then out to grounding screw on outlet?

I didn’t think loose screw on box would make difference beings it was connected to outlet grounding plate? But, after I tighten up the screw and of course moved wires around getting outlet back in box. The tester lite up all yellow. So, I guess it fixed for now? We see if breaker trips later?

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jimhoward

There is a typo in your post somewhere which is obscuring meaning. Maybe the word "eradicate" is in error? Maybe should be erratically? Not sure.

It does not seem likely that the breaker is the problem. Seems more like an intermittent short, particularly if the outlet is burnt. The short is probably right in that outlet box. Are the wires overly crowded in there? If so, maybe replace the box with a bigger one and rewire the outlet. Or maybe just rewire in the existing box but being careful to make sure nothing is jammed together or potentially exposed wire touching.

Yes you are correct typo (ai added probably due to my misspelling and I didn’t catch it) erratically was word I was after.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Maker

Ground and neutral should be tied together somewhere upstream. Seeing 5.3vac says the neutral wire is disconnected somewhere before being reaching this outlet. Likely that voltage is more like a static reading because the meter has a very high input impedance. If you put a 3-way outlet adapter in, with the tester and then your meter, I bet the voltages goes close to zero. Or to 117vac, depending on how that tester is set up. (or use a load without a ground lead)
Next step is to look at other outlets located between this one and the breaker. Check the white wires for a bad wirenut, open junction, loose white wire, etc.
Do not tie the white to the ground.
Looks like that outlet is in concrete block. Garage maybe? There could be an outlet on that circuit in the attic too.
Is the breaker tripping a GFCI ?? Power flowing from outlet hot to a device and returning via ground will trip a GFCI.

I had go somewhere and haven’t check see it 5Vs still there. The dim red light out now. I’ll Check see if I still have ghost voltage in outlet?

[Topspinmo]

Ok, got back on outlet. No stray voltage now. Evidently that ground came from main breaker panel? I wouldn’t thought trighten the screw attached to box would fixed the problem.

[Topspinmo]

Ok I think I figured it out. When pushing the outlet back in Box the grounding wire was probably touching the common side of the outlet. When I would plug something in drawing current from outlet I guessing with ground touching outlet at common connection it would trip breaker. I tighten up grounding screw in box and when putting outlet back in it wasn’t touching. I know this cause when I took it apart again for photo the problem was back with red dimly lite. I bent ground wire back so it wasn’t close and problem fixed again.

The photo show grounding wire by red arrow. The left arrow show where the ground wire was making contact with common side when I pushed back in box, the center top arrow show where ground wire comes in from breaker box. The red arrow on right shows box grounding screw I found that was very loose.

[HJBeck]

Your voltmeter was showing 5 v ac reading on the neutral to ground terminals which suggests you have a loose neutral wire or bad outlet somewhere between your outlet and the breaker box. This in itself could be a fire hazard. I would trace back all the outlets from the outlet you measured from and check that all the wiring is tightly connected to the daisy chained outlets all the way back to the breaker box, including the neutral connection for that circuit in the breaker box. (You need to shut off thar breaker to do this). If all the wires are tightly connected to the outlets and you still have the 5v ac reading on the neutral to ground in your outlet shown, then I believe you have a bad outlet somewhere in the daisey chain of outlets back to the breaker box. I would replace ALL of the outlets in the daisey chain. BETTER SAFE THEN SORRY!

[Camranhvet]

Originally Posted by HJBeck

Your voltmeter was showing 5 v ac reading on the neutral to ground terminals which suggests you have a loose neutral wire or bad outlet somewhere between your outlet and the breaker box. This in itself could be a fire hazard. I would trace back all the outlets from the outlet you measured from and check that all the wiring is tightly connected to the daisy chained outlets all the way back to the breaker box, including the neutral connection for that circuit in the breaker box. (You need to shut off thar breaker to do this). If all the wires are tightly connected to the outlets and you still have the 5v ac reading on the neutral to ground in your outlet shown, then I believe you have a bad outlet somewhere in the daisey chain of outlets back to the breaker box. I would replace ALL of the outlets in the daisey chain. BETTER SAFE THEN SORRY!

Did you not read his last few posts? He found the problem and it is fixed.

[Fitnusbuf]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Ok, got back on outlet. No stray voltage now. Evidently that ground came from main breaker panel? I wouldn’t thought trighten the screw attached to box would fixed the problem.

Having a screw loose can get you every time!

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Fitnusbuf

Having a screw loose can get you every time!

Since my last post I had to also replace the outlet, the problem came back tripping breaker. So far good. I when through every breaker amps (15 and 20 amps circuits) found six 15 amp outlets on 20 amp breaker. I’m assume if got 20 amp circuit you have to have 20amp rated outlets? These are original outlets installed when house was built in 2002. Most of wrong amp outlets are on outsside GFI outlets and two in kitchen. Hopefully I hit bottom of this rats nest?

[FredMitchell]

If your breaker is an Eaton 20A AFCI/GFC1, (BRP120DF, for example) you can determine the cause of the trip from the number of LED flashes on the breaker. They have a video for doing that. Or see, this There is also a lawsuit against them for two series of those breakers. I have replaced 3 this year that started tripping intermittently, including one that had nothing plugged into any of the sockets. Eaton will replace the breaker free of charge (BRP120A1CS BR PON, the older one is discontinued. 3-5 days shipping). The replacement breaker is about $68.00 at Lowes.

As to labeling the circuit number on the plate, you can label it on the inside of the plate. Looks less cheezy and you only have to take out one screw to see it.

HTH.

[Win1894]

This is good to know Fred. I've had trouble with the Eaton GFCI breakers too. Thanks.