[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I was at LSL last week for some band.

I noticed how the event staff are very firm about keeping paths open, moving people in/out of the square. Most of it is for safety, but they enforce the rules.
I wondered why the ambassadors cant enforce the rules on the golf courses?
If I am considering buying a home here, I would appreciate it if the ambassador had pride in the course and corrected something I did.

One "ambassador " to reprimand 4, possibly obnoxious and confrontational golfers. Gee, what could possibly go wrong or intimidate the poor ambassador Maybe if they worked in pairs with one driving and the second videoing improper behavior and interactions, with the super on the hot line for immediate back up. Citations handed out to record warnings. Third citation, banned for 1 month from all Villages courses. Fourth citation, banned for 1 year. Fifth citation, take up another game, sell your clubs. You are done golfing in TV.
Dump the title Ambassador in favor of Course Officers, and give them some authority. If the miscreants are aware that they are going to be held accountable, be prepared to back it up and be prepared to make a few examples of a few idiots before you get proper decorum on the course.

[wlasowicz]

I as a owner of a rental would like to see a increase non resident/lifestyle passes Everything else has gone up. I have my tenants pay for this if they want one. After all snowbirds increase the demand on the services in the high season. I rather see this first before any more increases in my amenity fee which is $40 more a month than when I bought the place 6 years ago

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I know this post will be crucified…..

But, if the districts picked ONE executive in each “area” (i.e. north of 466; 466 to 466A; 466a to 44, south of 44) and charged $20 or $25 a round, BUT the courses get an extra level of maintenance, basically, they are awesome courses.
Maybe tee times are spaced out an extra minute or two.

Would you support it? Would you pay to play that course?

You still have the others you pay for the trail fee. They would be maintained as they are now, some good some bad. They may not be the most interesting courses, but the conditions would be REALLY good.

You realize you are asking people to give up several of the current courses we all can play (probably the best/favorites) so a select few can create a "private, members only type "Club".
How about, if you want a private club, go build a new one or pony up the bucks for the Championship Clubs instead of trying to steal one of our current selection. If the maintenance people are even capable of making a course "REALLY good", then that is the way all our courses should be now, especially the Champs. This question is a money grab and an effort to disenfrachise (aka; ROB) the majority of Villages home owners for a select few. SHAME!

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Not trying to shoot down the idea of finding a way to better maintain the executive courses, but it is fair to point out that these types of discussions seem to happen every year about this time. Time, fewer people on the courses and more rain in the next few months will go a long way toward rectifying the situation.

Nevertheless it is a fact that some of the executive courses seem to be maintained better than others. Rather than selective maintenance, here are some ideas of better overall maintenance of the executive courses, keeping in mind that the cost of just about everything has gone up and course maintenance is no exception:

1. Charge a bit more for trail fees, say 10% more for motorized carts and raise the cost of pull carts from $1 to $2 per cart.
2. Close each course for scheduled maintenance on a regular basis (once every two weeks?)
3. RIGOROUSLY enforce the rule of no unauthorized motorized carts on the course (Seeing people violate that rule is becoming more and more common).
4. Do maintenance as a preventative rather than a restorative. Allowing a course to go downhill to the point where it needs (say) $100,000 in repairs over two weeks while the course is closed is ridiculous if the same amount (or probably much less) spent in routine maintenance on an open course is the other option.
5. Have the “ambassadors’ (as others have suggested) be more than just smile-and-wave guys and have them actually ENFORCE rules. Pushcarts on greens—cigarette butts negligently cast onto the course—unfilled divots—unprepared ball marks on greens—etc. etc., could all be minimized by better rule enforcement.
6. Allow more time between tee times. Even one more minute between tee times, when spread over a year, means significantly less traffic on the courses.

There are most likely a lot of other things that could be done to improve play-ability and minimize major repairs. Unfortunately the powers-that-be seem all too hesitant to upset the status quo, unless there is absolutely no other choice.

I completely agree with most everything you mentioned; there is so much more that could be done, even a a drought. But I do believe many, if not most, residents do not understand the entire underlying philosophy of "free" (which we know is not true of course) golf. Those we know on every course we have ever played as "marshals", are not called "marshals" here because they are NOT intended to enforce anything. They are as they tell you, "ambassadors", people don't seem to understand this was a PLANNED, deliberate, decision on the part of the Villages. It is a marketing tool. Everyone knows the thousands who have never played golf, are not even vaguely aware of the long history of etiquette and courtesy associated with the game. Here people REGULARLY step in the path of another's putt, they enter and leave a trap at the HIGHEST, not lowest, point, and do with rakes anything they wish. Admonishing, correcting, or reporting such individuals has never been in the "plan". Yes, it was shocking, really SHOCKING to us in the first couple years, but I don't believe we are exceptional. Just as so many do not realized this is not a private gated community, or that there are very likely to be bright lights and loud music in a number of residential areas (including the high school games and band practice), the same applies to the courses. This is not the "country club" community many envisioned, the one where you get a polite letter that you were observed on ____ date parking a cart in an illegal manner near the apron, or observed dragging a metal flag pole across the green when removing it. You do not get two such letters in one year here and have your golfing privileges removed. Some have said, "no one one cares", that's really not true either. We care, so many who comment on here care, but "caring" only refers to the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY of each of us. Many (of course not all), have no idea, as I mentioned, the etiquette of golf, and I personally think they do not because the have no interest in learning it. They just retire, go buy some clubs, a have fun. Again, NOT all, but I don't think it is likely to change mostly due to the POLICY of the villages that views "free golf" as a publicity campaign that has worked well for it's entire history. People who know nothing about golf are encouraged to "have at it", play, "just have some fun". Our single friend from the North East came to visit. She made arrangements to come back for a "life styles" stay. A city girl through and through, no interest in golf. Her sales rep. showing her around arranged golf times for her, and, personally brought her some clubs at her accommodation during her "lifestyles" tour, and over her protests, told her "just get out there and have fun, you'll have a good time and meet nice people, don't worry about not knowing how to play, you'll catch on, and (he added), it doesn't matter, just have a good time. Of course she told us how she did surprise herself hitting some balls that "actually flew" as she put it, but she also told us about all the holes (as she called them) she made. She had NO IDEA they are called divots, or that you are EXPECTED to repair them with a special mix. How could she know. I relate this just as one personal experience first hand of a good friend, but multiply this by the thousands who visit, vacation, and live here. I also have friends who make it a point to take all their NON golfer visitors play when they are here. I am NOT condemning that, it the right we all have, and many love to take their friends and family to do something they have never tired. I simply make these comments so people better understand why these courses are so poor, it's not all due to poor grounds keepers or even dry conditions, and all the suggestions above WOULD HELP. but until the development's BASIC PHILOSOPHY of using golf a a marketing tool changes, the conditions of the courses probably won't change a great deal. Actually, we could probably save a great deal of money by simply not having "ambassadors" at all ! ? But, with this age population, good to have some one with water, watching for signs of distress or mechanical problems with carts, so..... ! ?

[SullyP]

No, would not support it.

[NYMAN]

and the villages are not totally to blame in that regard, how about the people who play those courses they share some of the responsibility, when I learned the game I was taught repair DIVOTS, repai BALL MARKS and Rakethe traps when you are done!!!!

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by NYMAN

and the villages are not totally to blame in that regard, how about the people who play those courses they share some of the responsibility, when I learned the game I was taught repair DIVOTS, repai BALL MARKS and Rakethe traps when you are done!!!!

Me too. But I recall walking the course as a group and passing along and reinforcing the niceties, courtesies and course conduct that went with the game. Reminders to companions to fix divots or rake bunkers. The game used to be much more relaxed and congenial.
Now, it's hurry, hurry up, rush-rush, gotta stay ahead of the group behind, push the group ahead. If you can't keep up, get out of the way. No wonder newbies don't learn golf etiquette. Nobody has the time or desire to instruct the new kids. Only complain when they fail to keep up.
Ah. The good old days.

[kbarber044]

I agree with the pull cart fee should go up - we are talking about conditions of the courses - and not one pull cart has a sand bottle on them - to replace any divots they may make - yet they pay no fee because they are walking

[miadford@gmail.com]

No. I already pay a large monthly fee, no I will not pay more to play executive courses. It is ridiculous what they charge to play the championship courses as it is.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

One "ambassador " to reprimand 4, possibly obnoxious and confrontational golfers. Gee, what could possibly go wrong or intimidate the poor ambassador Maybe if they worked in pairs with one driving and the second videoing improper behavior and interactions, with the super on the hot line for immediate back up. Citations handed out to record warnings. Third citation, banned for 1 month from all Villages courses. Fourth citation, banned for 1 year. Fifth citation, take up another game, sell your clubs. You are done golfing in TV.
Dump the title Ambassador in favor of Course Officers, and give them some authority. If the miscreants are aware that they are going to be held accountable, be prepared to back it up and be prepared to make a few examples of a few idiots before you get proper decorum on the course.

Not being contrary on purpose, but I just think none of that will happen because it is not in line with the deep psychology of the "business" end of the villages. Those suggestions would more closely reflect a situation where the priority is the residents, not the business aspects. In an average city, town, or villages, this changes with the WISHES of the residents. This is a completely different configuration. Again, not saying your suggestion that the "ambassadors" work in pairs for their own security is worthless, not at all, but I'd like to point out that while people can be very confrontational (and/or very drunk), the marshal's at our former country club, and the marshals on our local PUBLIC courses never worked in pairs, and yes, they did encounter some "entitled" country club members (as in Groundhog Day and comic films), and often belligerent drunks on public courses, never seemed to have two marshals ! ? The marshal is the marshal, that was it. But so much is needed here and just marshals alone as a first step would save a ton of $$$.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Not quite that simple. But you know that ----- I would hope.

Definitely not that simple, I agree. Did most expect people already paying for something would welcome additional payment. I anticipated people would not crave that, but you never know.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

"What" is right ? Definitely puzzling answer. Perhaps some don't realize it is an amenity, as in "amenity fee" ? Don't know, but agree with your "what what" !

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by Dburesh

I will be finding some other place to play if they start charging for the executive courses, as we are already paying for those in our amenities!

One person on here has the line from Tom Petty about "most things I worry about never happen anyway" applies to this. Don't think it's worth worrying about, not likely to happen. Amenity fees rising, perhaps, but choosing a few exec's to tack on additional charge, doubt it, but who knows. Could become tiered, you never know. You pay so much for base amenity rate, then can add $20 a month for unlimited choice of exec's which would include the "well cared for ones", you never know, just doubt it ! As far as continuing to pay your amenity fees and then playing the public courses outside the villages, you'd have to do a LOT of pencil pushing to make sure that would pay off for you... there is travel (fuel is expensive), time, maybe even purchasing snacks or lunch compared to having your own from home, then you have to figure in cart rental if you use motorized cart, just a lot to figure before saying you'd switch and play outside courses if they begin an extra change. But then, perhaps you don't play often, might be able to justify it, but hard to do since no matter what, you still have to pay monthly amenity fees ! A lot to think about before would decide something like that.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Interesting read. The basic summary is that two factors, the weather and the amount of player traffic are responsible for the conditions. Given that the weather is a constant, which is out of human control, the amount of player traffic is the only variable which can be controlled. Since the conditions were MUCH better 5 or 6 years ago, before a crap load of new homes were built without a corresponding increase in available golf holes per rooftop, logic would dictate that increased player traffic is the culprit.

Simple solution, build more executive courses until the amount of player traffic is reduced to a level that allows the courses conditions to return to what they used to be 5 or 6 years ago.

True in some situations, but this is a BUSINESS, that is the point. I hope this is a logical analogy: if you run a restaurant and make a decision to serve just a little less soda and a little more ice per drink, and people just keep coming, business is not only steady, but increases year over year. So you consider this, and instruct staff to use a little more ice and a little less soda, or let's say, you decide to cut your french fries (which are legendary all over your area) by just 6 fries per order, but they are so good, so well known, that your business continues to grow by epic proportions, would you actually make a decision to INCREASE the size of an order or your "legendary" fries, or go back to serving MORE soda and less ice, of course not, it's your BUSINESS, it is not the same as just asking your friends over for your excellent fries so you give them heaping amounts ! When people stop coming, when homes don't sell very fast, and when word gets around the entire nation that "that place, The Villages that's so "famous" for "free" golf, is not fee at all of course, how could it be ? But golfers and non golfers alike pay the freight for the golf courses, but the golf courses are little more than cow pastures, complete with the same kinds of weeks, THEN, a smart business person changes the business plan !

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by crash

Because people do drive on them and don’t rake the traps, or fill their divots or repair their ball marks.

And we pay "good will ambassadors", not marshal's who tell people (politely of course), to keep their carts ON the path, and NEVER ever explain to people who are ignorant of etiquette, how to use the 90 degree rule if they are incapable to walking to their ball in the fairway, and so on, many many things "could" be done to help. Never happen !