[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by David73

What you all need to understand, is THE VILLAGES was designed for our residents to be catered to. Translation: You get to use YOUR OWN golf cart, no extra charge. You get a "contained" environment with teriffic facilities, prices that are competitive, and you dont have to schlep your clubs in and out of your car, etc, etc, etc.



Want real world prices? Go to Orlando. Go to Tampa. Go to Gainsville. The championship courses in THE VILLAGES ARE PUBLIC GOLF COURSES. ANYONE can play here as long as they are willing to pay the price. PRIORITY memberships are exactly what they imply. You pay for PRIORITY you get PRIORITY when REQUESTING a tee time up to 7 days in advance. Non priority residents, get whats left, OUTSIDERS can only obtain a tee time by calling the TEE TIME OFFICE 3 days in advance of the desired day of play, or the golf course ON THE DAY OF PLAY.



Do the math. What do you think each course has to pay maintenance staff, starters, golf course SHOP staff, etc??? If you factor in minimum wage, the number per day will scare the pants off of you. COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS.

I agree with much of what you say, but TV championship courses are not by definition public. They are semi-private.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I agree with much of what you say, but TV championship courses are not by definition public. They are semi-private.

The public can play the Championship Courses in TV. They are at the bottom of the food chain (for tee times) but they can get on, especially in the summer.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by JoMar

The public can play the Championship Courses in TV. They are at the bottom of the food chain (for tee times) but they can get on, especially in the summer.

I know. You are absolutely right. But it doesn't change the fact that TV Championship courses are semi-private.

[Northwoods]

I think The Villages Championship courses are very nice. If they increase rates it's because the market is willing to pay it. People who think we're "entitled" to low rates on championship courses have to realize that cheaper rates would create a different issue - there would be more demand than course availability. People would complain they can't get on a Championship course. I think the current strategy works well. Plus there are Executive courses which are VERY cost-effective.

[Roaddog53]

Originally Posted by newguyintv

By comparison to TV which I don't disagree should be a five on a scale of 1-10.

Harbor Hills = 8
Water Oak= -3
Links of Spruce Creek =5
Miona Lake = -2
Mission Inn = 10

Never heard of the other two so they are probably in negative numbers also.

Regarding the rate increases in the winter. My guess is much of it is tied to the snowbirds. They come down between October-April in general. They are more than willing to pay the prices since they CAN'T play in the far northern states. The rate increases in winter coincide with that time. The fall and spring rates tie more into the increased play when not as hot yet.
The rates charged in TV to me are high for what you are getting and conditions and (you already HAVE a golf cart otherwise add $10 per person if need a cart in TV) but again as all said it is tied to supply and demand. No tee times and lots of traffic. Very similar to the rates in city courses such as Tampa, Orlando. If you want to play you will pay. It is not gouging, taking advantage of, or wrong. You don't have to play them.

Remember, although you can "drive" your cart to TV courses, depending on which one and your house, you may be 10-50+ minutes one way from it by cart. No different than getting in your car and driving.

In the summer time we play most times here after 11:00am since competitive Sometimes we go off site. We ALWAYS go offsite in the winter and have not paid over $28 for 18 holes unless with a group and than includes lunch, balls, range ball...
Right now: Spruce Creek-$15 at 8:00 am with a free lunch. Eagle Ridge-$12.25 12:45 pm shotgun 2 days a week. Others $20-$28

I would not rate most TV courses above 5-6. Average at best on condition AND character based on 40+ years of play all over the US. Including some of the top courses and some municipal courses. There are municipal courses that TV don;t hold a candle to in condition and character.

My take on some offsite I played.
Harbor Hills = 6 or 7
Water Oak= 2 Dangerous layout
Links of Spruce Creek = 5 or 6 same as TV
Eagle Ridge = 7 or 8 lots of character
Sanctuary Ridge = 5 or 6 views are amazing
Continental = 3 or 4
Ocala National = 7
Otter Creek = 5
Black Bear = 7 or 8
Summer Glen = 6

Go to GolfNow and see ratings of offsite courses too and some good rates

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by MikeV

What the traffic will bear.

That in addition to the fact that most costs go up year after year. Are the employees of the courses making the same amount of money as they did last year? Is the cost of chemicals, gas and oil the same? As the golf courses get older do they cost more to maintain? Do greens need to be replaced? Are older grasses more susceptible to diseases? Have taxes and the cost of government regulation gone up?

Why does the cost of anything go up every year?

[Bogie Shooter]

I think it is worth noting all the courses that have been rebuilt and up dated the past few years. Some of our fees are being put back into the courses.

[tomwed]

• UNLIMITED PLAY. Tee times after the afternoon wave include unlimited play
(based on course availability on the same course) for the remainder of the day. this is from the Rates and Fees pdf

What time is the afternoon wave on the championship courses?
How often is unlimited play unavailable due to course availability? very often? often? not often?

[newguyintv]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I know. You are absolutely right. But it doesn't change the fact that TV Championship courses are semi-private.

They are public courses (primarily for residents) who have no say in how they are operated, have no restaurants operations that cater to them, they have no elected board of directors that have a say in how they are operated and have recurring maintenance level issues that wouldn't be tolerated by semi private clubs in other areas and they have no locker room facillities that are plentifully available in many Semi-Private Clubs. There are in fact NO members unless you think paying a priority fee for preferred tee times with no right to vote on anything makes you a member.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by newguyintv

They are public courses (primarily for residents) who have no say in how they are operated, have no restaurants operations that cater to them, they have no elected board of directors that have a say in how they are operated and have recurring maintenance level issues that wouldn't be tolerated by semi private clubs in other areas and they have no locker room facillities that are plentifully available in many Semi-Private Clubs. There are in fact NO members unless you think paying a priority fee for preferred tee times with no right to vote on anything makes you a member.

The following DEFINITION of a semi-private golf club comes directly from golf.com:

""Semi-private course" is the term applied to golf courses that sell memberships, but also allow non-members to book tee times and play. So a semi-private course combines elements of a country club with elements of a public golf course.

The term "semi-private course" is one used most commonly in the United States. But many of the famous links of Great Britain, for example, qualify as semi-private.

What benefits do members of a semi-private course receive? Typically, reduced (or waived) green fees, sometimes preferential tee times, and access to other amenities or perks offered by the club.

Non-members can play the golf course, but typically pay higher green fees and might be restricted from entering other parts of the club (swimming pool or tennis courts, for example)."

I think the championship courses pretty much meet this definition

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by newguyintv

They are public courses (primarily for residents) who have no say in how they are operated, have no restaurants operations that cater to them, they have no elected board of directors that have a say in how they are operated and have recurring maintenance level issues that wouldn't be tolerated by semi private clubs in other areas and they have no locker room facillities that are plentifully available in many Semi-Private Clubs. There are in fact NO members unless you think paying a priority fee for preferred tee times with no right to vote on anything makes you a member.

Rant all you want. By definition they are semi-private. If you want to generically call them "public" because anybody can play them, fine.

But to say they are not semi-private is to deny the reality of what defines a semi-private course. Priority Members have lower rates, better access to tees times, availability of tournaments, etc...thus semi-private. The availability of locker rooms and other such facilities is irrelevant. Sounds to me like you're talking about fully private clubs.

I know this will mean nothing to you in resolving our disagreement, but here is a quote from the golfthevillages.com Championship Golf web page: "These courses are considered semi-private facilities with fee structures designed to be affordable for Villages residents."

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by newguyintv

They are public courses (primarily for residents) who have no say in how they are operated, have no restaurants operations that cater to them, they have no elected board of directors that have a say in how they are operated and have recurring maintenance level issues that wouldn't be tolerated by semi private clubs in other areas and they have no locker room facillities that are plentifully available in many Semi-Private Clubs. There are in fact NO members unless you think paying a priority fee for preferred tee times with no right to vote on anything makes you a member.

All that's true but by definition the TV Championship courses are semi-private. I forget where that is posted. Does anyone remember?

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Rant all you want. By definition they are semi-private. If you want to generically call them "public" because anybody can play them, fine.

But to say they are not semi-private is to deny the reality of what defines a semi-private course. Priority Members have lower rates, better access to tees times, availability of tournaments, etc...thus semi-private.

I know this will mean nothing to you in resolving our disagreement, but here is a quote from the golfthevillages.com Championship Golf web page: "These courses are considered semi-private facilities with fee structures designed to be affordable for Villages residents."

I belonged to both private and semi private courses. Every semi private course I belonged to had club storage, locker and shower facilities, food services and special tournaments i.e., member guest tournaments, that actually shut down the course and membership fees that eliminate green fees. The Champ courses offer none of that. The food service is owned and managed by someone else. If you want to call it semi private that's ok, but the reality is the Champs are public courses with a discount card for people that are residents of The Villages.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by tomwed

All that's true but by definition the TV Championship courses are semi-private. I forget where that is posted. Does anyone remember?

Read post #42.........

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Read post #42.........

thank-you---I knew it was from a trusted source. The Villages defined it themselves. Now I get it, if the course is part of a real estate community then by definition it is semi-private now matter how it's run or what it offers. Our HS golf course called itself a Country Club but it was just like all the public courses. Country Club sounded more prestigious.