[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by SHIBUMI

I am on a seesaw and I weigh 250 lbs, the person on the other end of the seesaw
weighs 100 lbs. in order for the seesaw to have even balance, our goal, we have to add 150 lbs to the 100 lb end

You would be correct, IF a Swingweight scale operated like a seesaw, it does not.

A Seesaw has the fulcrum in the center, a Swingweight scale has the fulcrum, 14" from the Butt end of the club. The formula for simplicity sake, is L x W = L x W.

If a Driver is 45" long, putting a dime on the Butt (14" from the fulcrum) makes the dime weigh 1 Unit. Placing the dime on the clubhead end, makes the dime weigh 3.21 Units. (The actual weight doesn't change, but the moment does.)

A Swingweight scale does NOT measure "weight" in any way, shape or form. It is an attempt to quantify "feel" (balance point), by using "moment".

5th grade Math, 11th grade physics.

It is why when we try to move a boulder in our back yard, instead of using a screwdriver as a lever, we use a pry bar.

See the attached visual and you'll understand how it works. Notice in the 4th & 5th sentence, it explains you have consider the distance from the fulcrum and multiply.

[ehonour]

Wow. Here I am, a mediocre older golfer, typically shooting around bogey—like most of the golfers I meet in TV. One tee box, I'll get the ball in the center of my driver and hit it 210. The next tee box, I'll drop my right shoulder, look up to watch my great shot, and hit it off the toe about 110 yards into the brush on the right.

That contrast gets even worse when it comes to approach shots. If my drive was only 170 (sigh), then I'm having to pull out a 3-wood and try to hit the green. Lots of luck with that, with ANY ball. Even if I got that 210 drive and I'm hitting a 9-iron, I still sometimes mess up the swing and drop it in the bunker, or short of the green, or blade it all the way past. (It's a good thing I'm a reasonably good putter; I save a lot of holes that way.)

Obviously, I'm not a pro. Somehow, I don't think a little variation in ball performance is going to affect my game much. I play the Kirkland balls, and I don't worry about losing them because I get them in 2-dozen quantity and they're not so precious. [grin]

[mrf6969]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

mrf6969 is wrong on both counts.

There are plenty of Swing Speeds over 90 in TV and hardly anyone benefits from a "softer ball". It's all about "feel". Some people like the feel of a softer ball, so they use one.

A harder golf ball will travel further, under almost all conditions. The only time that changes, is when spin becomes an issue. (If a player cannot produce sufficient spin to get the ball in the air.)

If I'm not mistaken, you said you play Vice Pro Tour? That ball is recommended for higher swing speeds, but is longer for most swing speeds, than the Vice Pro Soft. Personally, I hit the Tour Pro about 4-5 yards longer than the Pro Soft and my swing speed rarely reaches 90.

I was merely stating that the average 15-30 handicapper that plays here in TV, which is the vast majority of us, should be using the softer ball for better overall results. In this group of golfers, they do not care about spin or another 4-5 yards. I still get a kick out of high handicap golfers that buy very expensive clubs and hit the ProV balls and get sucked in to thinking this is going to help their game.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by mrf6969

I was merely stating that the average 15-30 handicapper that plays here in TV, which is the vast majority of us, should be using the softer ball for better overall results. In this group of golfers, they do not care about spin or another 4-5 yards. I still get a kick out of high handicap golfers that buy very expensive clubs and hit the ProV balls and get sucked in to thinking this is going to help their game.

I did a test once, about 10 years ago.

10 rounds at the same course, using only Pro V1's ... average score a bit over 80.

10 rounds at the same, above course, using balls I found in the woods. Average score, a little under 80

My average score from the Blues on Championship courses in TV, is about 77. I'll play any 3 piece ball with a urethane cover, that costs less than $2.50/ball. When I can't find 3 piece Urethane balls for less than $2.50, I'll be playing 2 piece balls, covered with whatever they're covered with.

Even Titleist reps will admit, Pro V1's are not the best ball choice, for the majority of recreational players.

[jimhoward]

Originally Posted by ehonour

Wow. Here I am, a mediocre older golfer, typically shooting around bogey—like most of the golfers I meet in TV. One tee box, I'll get the ball in the center of my driver and hit it 210. The next tee box, I'll drop my right shoulder, look up to watch my great shot, and hit it off the toe about 110 yards into the brush on the right.

That contrast gets even worse when it comes to approach shots. If my drive was only 170 (sigh), then I'm having to pull out a 3-wood and try to hit the green. Lots of luck with that, with ANY ball. Even if I got that 210 drive and I'm hitting a 9-iron, I still sometimes mess up the swing and drop it in the bunker, or short of the green, or blade it all the way past. (It's a good thing I'm a reasonably good putter; I save a lot of holes that way.)

Obviously, I'm not a pro. Somehow, I don't think a little variation in ball performance is going to affect my game much. I play the Kirkland balls, and I don't worry about losing them because I get them in 2-dozen quantity and they're not so precious. [grin]

A good ball might not affect your score much, but it can affect your enjoyment of the game.

A good ball will make your best shots, rare as they may be, better and have little effect on your bad shots.

A well struck short iron or wedge will hop and stop or even spin back on the green with a good ball. I may not do that very often, but it gives me great pleasure when I do.

The feel on chips, pitches and putts is also nice....regardless of the outcome.

Moreover, hitting a new clean top quality ball, like a pro V1 gives me confidence and makes me feel good. The fact that I make poor shots that spoil my score doesn't alter that fact.

I know guys, on the other hand, who would be driven insane if they played and lost many $5 golf balls on a daily basis. The expensive golf balls makes their enjoyment less.

My GHIN index is 18, yet I play forged irons. Why? Because the sweet feel of the occasional well struck shot is better than sex. Game improvement cavity backs take that away. I know it probably costs me a stroke or two.

Many seniors play Calloway Supersofts. I think it is the number 1 ball for seniors. Even at slow swing speeds those marshmallows do not go farther than a higher compression ball. But, they give you the feeling that you are compressing the ball. That makes people feel good.

Much of golf is about what gives you enjoyment and what you want out of the game.

[dewilson58]

I've play a lot of golf as a single.
If the pace is slow, I play two balls from the same place pretty much all 18.
Played many different balls.

A few rounds, I played Callaway Warbirds vs. ProV's.
Same distance (maybe Warbirds are slightly longer).
Approach shots..............about the same...............maybe a bit more spin with the ProV's.
But, both balls stop on the greens.

Warbirds, $20/dz.
ProV's, stupid price.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by jimhoward

A well struck short iron or wedge will hop and stop or even spin back on the green with a good ball. I may not do that very often, but it gives me great pleasure when I do.
.....

My GHIN index is 18,

I've been between a 3 Index & 8 Index, for 20+ years. I can count on one hand, the number of times I've spun a ball back on a Green, not counting sand shots.

Originally Posted by jimhoward

My GHIN index is 18, yet I play forged irons. Why? Because the sweet feel of the occasional well struck shot is better than sex. Game improvement cavity backs take that away. I know it probably costs me a stroke or two.

...

There is no "feel" difference between a "forged" golf club and a "cast" golf club. That's been proven over & over & over again. It's an old wive's tale. Almost all golf irons are made of carbon steel, 431 or 17-4ph stainless. Just use common sense. How could any of those steels, "feel" differently, when hitting a marshmallow (in comparison) golf ball? It defies logic. if you insist there's a different "feel", it's because you never hit the "sweet spot", which is tiny on an old set of forged irons. Naturally, it's going to feel better if you get lucky and hit the center of the club face. A modern forged or cast club, has an enhanced & larger sweet spot.

There has been only 1 set of irons produced by a major Club manufacturer, in both Forged & Investment Cast. The are the Hogan Edge GCD model, produced in 1994 & 1995. I happened to own a set of each. I witness (tested) at least 10 different Golf Professionals hit the 2 clubs, side by side. None of the 10 could consistently feel the difference. No average played would have any hope of "feeling" the difference.

There was a Golf Publication out in those days, called "Peterson's". It named the Hogan Edge GCD irons as the greatest irons ever produced ... which obviously caused a run on the irons. They're still a sought after collector's item. Peterson's tested both the Forged & Investment Cast versions, with the same result. No change in performance, no change in "feel". (The only difference in the 2 models, was the Forged irons had a touch less offset than the cast irons.)

The feel of a golf club is related to a number of design characteristics, none of which are related to whether a club is forged or cast. 80% of the Top 100 players on the PGA Tour use Cavity Back Irons. Rickie Fowler, Webb Simpson & Adam Scott, all switched out of forged blades, last year.

[jimhoward]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I've been between a 3 Index & 8 Index, for 20+ years. I can count on one hand, the number of times I've spun a ball back on a Green, not counting sand shots.





There is no "feel" difference between a "forged" golf club and a "cast" golf club. That's been proven over & over & over again. It's an old wive's tale. Almost all golf irons are made of carbon steel, 431 or 17-4ph stainless. Just use common sense. How could any of those steels, "feel" differently, when hitting a marshmallow (in comparison) golf ball? It defies logic. if you insist there's a different "feel", it's because you never hit the "sweet spot", which is tiny on an old set of forged irons. Naturally, it's going to feel better if you get lucky and hit the center of the club face. A modern forged or cast club, has an enhanced & larger sweet spot.

There has been only 1 set of irons produced by a major Club manufacturer, in both Forged & Investment Cast. The are the Hogan Edge GCD model, produced in 1994 & 1995. I happened to own a set of each. I witness (tested) at least 10 different Golf Professionals hit the 2 clubs, side by side. None of the 10 could consistently feel the difference. No average played would have any hope of "feeling" the difference.

There was a Golf Publication out in those days, called "Peterson's". It named the Hogan Edge GCD irons as the greatest irons ever produced ... which obviously caused a run on the irons. They're still a sought after collector's item. Peterson's tested both the Forged & Investment Cast versions, with the same result. No change in performance, no change in "feel". (The only difference in the 2 models, was the Forged irons had a touch less offset than the cast irons.)

The feel of a golf club is related to a number of design characteristics, none of which are related to whether a club is forged or cast. 80% of the Top 100 players on the PGA Tour use Cavity Back Irons. Rickie Fowler, Webb Simpson & Adam Scott, all switched out of forged blades, last year.

I believe Ricky Fowler is still using forged clubs. He switched from blades to mini cavity backs but they are still forged. I think that is the case for most of the players.

I have never had the opportunity to compare clubs cast versus forged that were otherwise identical. The cast clubs I have owned have been game improvement irons with big fat soles and thick top lines and offsets on the longer irons. The forged clubs I have owned have not been blades but have small cavities and small soles and thin top lines and smaller hitting area. I can definitely feel a difference. It might be all in my head and maybe in a scientific blind test I couldn't tell. But psychological factors matter. There is a saying in golf "feel isn't real". But in my head it feels real.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by jimhoward

I believe Ricky Fowler is still using forged clubs. He switched from blades to mini cavity backs but they are still forged. I think that is the case for most of the players.

Rickie is playing Forged cavity-back, he just switched to Cobra King Black Edition Tour irons, the beginning of the year.

Originally Posted by jimhoward

I have never had the opportunity to compare clubs cast versus forged that were otherwise identical. The cast clubs I have owned have been game improvement irons with big fat soles and thick top lines and offsets on the longer irons. The forged clubs I have owned have not been blades but have small cavities and small soles and thin top lines and smaller hitting area. I can definitely feel a difference. It might be all in my head and maybe in a scientific blind test I couldn't tell. But psychological factors matter. There is a saying in golf "feel isn't real". But in my head it feels real.

I think you're exactly right. "Feel" is a perception and most of the testing that's been done between Forged & Cast clubs, suggest that "sound" is more of a determining factor in a player's perception.

I don't know how old your clubs are, but the newer model "Player Distance" irons, look much more compact at address. In some cases, it's an optical illusion, but they don't look "clunky" and perform almost as well as a super-game-improvement iron. I play forged Srixon ZXi5's & PXG Gen6 0311's interchangeably and they both look almost as compact as a blade, at address.

I also play a set of Maxfli Australian Blades in my "retro bag" and they're probably the hardest to hit blades, ever made. The satisfaction of hitting a flush shot with my Srixons or PXG's is the exact same as hitting one with the Australian Blades, but it happens way more often and I score way better.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

I buy my golf balls from lost golf balls.com. I get a bucket of 96 premium quality Titleist Velocities for about $1 per ball. The balls are as good as new and a bucket easily lasts 2-3 years.

Thought the bucket would last longer but how long do the balls last? Asking for a friend.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Thought the bucket would last longer but how long do the balls last? Asking for a friend.

No one in The Villages has every "worn out" a golf ball.

[Hape2Bhr]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

No one in The Villages has every "worn out" a golf ball.

Incorrect. I have golf balls on either side of my sliding garage screens with threaded rod holding them on; every so often the threads begin to strip and I replace them as the threads wear out.

[Fastskiguy]

Originally Posted by SHIBUMI

The short answer is yes. They will not put their name on any golf ball (anything)that has not met their quality control.

Velocity...LOL......... years ago I attended a consumer meeting for Wilson Golf Balls. No mention was made of the golf ball quality or how it was made. They passed out a piece of paper and asked everyone, Write down 10 words that would entice you into buying a golf ball.
So we would get......... Straighter , More Distance, Xtra Distance, Long Distance, a softer ball for women and seniors, and thats what they wrote on the boxes. thats marketing
Today you will see more science oriented qualities of golf balls Ai generated etc etc. LOL

Velocity is a word that excites you, it works, the fact that it has the name Titleist on it guarantees it quality.

Titleist biggest asset is the name and it protects it at all costs because it resonates quality. When you hear Callaway, Taylormade, etc your mind doesn't conjure up quality golf balls.

At times I played the Velocity ball, I liked the way it felt off the club face, it felt harder. I changed to a Pro V1 for the to the green shots, drop and stop, and softer putter feel.

I asked what the differences in distance were between golf balls. The answer was 5 yards.

You don't have to play a Pro V1....... But if you want quality and consistency best to play anything that says Titleist on it.......

Thanks for the info

[Snakster66]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

No one in The Villages has every "worn out" a golf ball.

How do you define "worn out"?